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Offlinelonestar2004
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National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work
    #6919923 - 05/15/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"A young couple, students from the University of Tennessee, were victims of a carjacking and were kidnapped, raped, tortured and eventually murdered by five people. Descriptions of their deaths were so brutal that I had to read them several times to fully process the implications."


"Newsom was kidnapped, raped and beaten. According to reports, his penis was then cut off before he was shot several times and set on fire, all while his girlfriend watched. His body was then dumped alongside train tracks. Christian was kept alive and gang-raped multiple times over a span of four days. Her breast was cut off while she was still alive and her kidnappers sprayed cleaning fluid into her mouth to cleanse it of DNA. Her body was then put into a garbage can.




National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work

Posted by Matthew Sheffield on May 15, 2007 - 09:16.

The sudden force that the liberal press brought to bear on the falsely accused Duke lacrosse team has been curiously absent on a much more grisly crime committed against a white couple by a group of black youths.

Personally, I don't think that local crime issues should ever be covered in the national press but if the media are going to cover them, they need to be consistent. My friend La Shawn Barber has a must-read post on the matter:

Early this year, a white couple was carjacked, tortured, raped, and murdered by a group of black thugs. Christopher Newsom (23) was gang-raped, shot and set on fire. There are unconfirmed reports that the killers cut off his penis while he was still alive. The going-to-straight-to-hell murderers made Channon Christian (21) watch, and then they gang-raped her over four days and left her to die. There are unconfirmed reports that her breasts were cut off while she was still alive. (Also see this story and the Wikipedia entry)

I’ve been getting e-mail about this case since it happened, but I’ve been hesitant to blog about it. Flopping Aces published a big post about the case last night, which probably accounts for why I received a few more Christian-Newsom e-mails this morning. Here goes!

I’ve noticed that mainstream media are reluctant to report this story, especially when it first happened. In light of the blanket coverage the Duke “rape” case received, the paucity of coverage in this case seems a bit unbalanced. I mean, isn’t the brutal, black-on-white gang-rape, mutilation, and murder of two people more than or at least as newsworthy as a white-on-black gang-rape (which obviously was phony)? Even if the stripper’s allegations had been true, why was the Duke case burning up the airwaves while the Christian-Newsom case barely emits a spark?

What’s up with the lack of blanket media coverage? I’m not talking about a story here or there with case updates. The media should be swarming around this story. What happened to Christian and Newsom should be all over the airwaves and printing presses.
http://newsbusters.org/node/12761\


http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom_murder


The media SUCKS it is one of our biggest problems, not only on this issue but on everything.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6919950 - 05/15/07 01:26 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Put a bullet in the head of every one of those pieces of shit. Drag their asses into the streets the minute the guilty verdict is read and put their waste-of-space lives to an end.

As for the media, they're spineless pieces of shit and everybody knows it.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6919974 - 05/15/07 01:31 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I dont know how the media is "refusing to cover this"

I heard about it.

Maybe you need to diversify your news sources.

Maybe the real problem is they aren't sensationalizing it enough for you? Would you really feel better if you could listen to Nancy Grace squeal about the injustice of it all for an hour on prime time?

I dont understand what you're looking for...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6919990 - 05/15/07 01:34 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

He was illustrating the liberal hypocrisy of the mainstream media. When a white person commits a heinous act against a black person it will be plastered all over the news for days. Race-baiting demagogue scumbags (Rev. Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc...) will play the victim, hold marches, and blather on and on. But, when black men kill white people nobody takes notice and it doesn't hit the mainstream news.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is BIAS.

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Offlinededjam
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6919998 - 05/15/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I heard about it, although it was in a blog and not a major news source.

I couldnt believe it, I know there are bad people in the world...but holy fucking shit. There is nothing that can be done to those pieces of shit that would be anywhere close to justice.

The problem the thread starter seems to be getting at is if this was some white kids that did something to some black kids...sharpton, jackson, and the media would be calling for a public hanging for such an awful hate crime. You would hear about it in every paper, on every news channel.

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6920003 - 05/15/07 01:37 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The difference here: nobody involved was rich.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6920022 - 05/15/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

And people wonder why the majority of Americans support the death penalty.



Phred


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: trendal]
    #6920034 - 05/15/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Be honest....if this was a gang of white kids who had done this to a black couple it would have been a national news story for days if not weeks.

Isn't it amazing that a disc jockey says, "nappy-headed hoes" and there is an unbelievable uproar that goes on forever? But, a heinous murder like this gets barely any press?

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Offlinededjam
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Phred]
    #6920036 - 05/15/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
And people wonder why the majority of Americans support the death penalty.



Phred




Death is a penalty too easy for those fuckers. What they did was true terrorism...send them to gitmo.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Phred]
    #6920041 - 05/15/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> And people wonder why the majority of Americans support the death penalty.

Personally, I feel 23 hours a day in a supermax cell with no hope and only time is a much worse punishment. Death is too nice; an easy escape.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Phred]
    #6920044 - 05/15/07 01:44 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
And people wonder why the majority of Americans support the death penalty.





Because us Americans are backwards troglodyte cowboys who do not possess the enlightened intellect of the progressive Europeans.

Edited by RandalFlagg (05/15/07 01:54 PM)

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Seuss]
    #6920051 - 05/15/07 01:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> And people wonder why the majority of Americans support the death penalty.

Personally, I feel 23 hours a day in a supermax cell with no hope and only time is a much worse punishment. Death is too nice; an easy escape.




I agree 100%. I would much rather be killed than in a place like that.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6920099 - 05/15/07 01:55 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
But, when black men kill white people nobody takes notice and it doesn't hit the mainstream news.




:rolleyes:


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6920109 - 05/15/07 01:57 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The first I heard about it was this morning reading Snopes. (It happened back in January)

and I just find it interesting comparing the attention given the Duke case with this crime.

Some are celebrating ...
click
http://www.svengalimedia.com/race/sexiest_black_male_felon_2006.html


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6920110 - 05/15/07 01:58 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

It's true.  :shrug:

You must admit that the "nappy-headed hoes" incident got infinitely more press than this murder incident.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6920136 - 05/15/07 02:05 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Getting back on topic, I don't know how I feel about this. I certainly do not like the bias, be it racial, financial, or other... but at the same time, I would prefer the media always ignore this type of event, at least at the national level. The CNN in your face hyper-reporting of this type of crime only encourages copycats.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6920139 - 05/15/07 02:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Look, I agree that the news media sensationalizes dumb stories over important ones, but I don't think they do so because they want to make white people look bad and black people look good. They don't give a shit either way. They cover all kinds of stories, including this one, and when the public get all up in a tizzy over something, they report on it more and more. Like Anna Nicole Smith dying. They just want the ratings.

Yes it is terribly frustrating that we hear about Duke Lacrosse team or Alec Baldwin getting mad at his daughter before we hear about tragedies like this one. But thats what you get in a capitalistic mass media system in which Rupert Murdoch owns everything. The news that has the most appeal are stories that are the most like soap operas. Instead of bitching, why not diversify where you get your news from instead of reading all of it off of google?


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6920147 - 05/15/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
It's true.  :shrug:

You must admit that the "nappy-headed hoes" incident got infinitely more press than this murder incident.




That's because it was entertainment, not news. Entertainment always wins the most ratings.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6920149 - 05/15/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If only we had a state-controlled media that told me what I should think.....  :smirk:

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6920152 - 05/15/07 02:09 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Thats all I'm trying to say.

This story has been available to anyone who cares to look for news.

The only place it has not been reported is the hysterical mass-media, CNN, FoxNews, O'Really and Nancy Grace.

Get over it.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6920160 - 05/15/07 02:11 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
If only we had a state-controlled media that told me what I should think.....  :smirk:




Oh yeah because there is no middle ground between capitalistic media oligarchy and state controlled media. Just because you don't understand the difference between "small" and "communism" doesn't mean you're allowed to put words in my mouth :shrug:


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6920218 - 05/15/07 02:23 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:

This story has been available to anyone who cares to look for news.

The only place it has not been reported is the hysterical mass-media, CNN, FoxNews, O'Really and Nancy Grace.

Get over it.





Right. I just googled "Channon Christian or Christopher Newsom and only a few local news and blogs came up.


So why do rich white Duke boys get MSM Mainstream attention? (when its just an imaginary rape story)

BUT the damage done by MSM and the Duke gang rape story is real, not imaginary.

The double murder was real, not imaginary.

Did the Duke Hoax and the way the media covered it contribute to the double murders?

I just dont think that I’m not the only one who is suspicious over whether the lack of coverage is a concerted effort to brush the story under the rug


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Phred]
    #6920311 - 05/15/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
And people wonder why the majority of Americans support the death penalty.

Phred




How could the death penalty have prevented this crime?

There are 3 types of murder: that of passion, of greed, and of compulsion. The death penalty prevents none of these. In a murder of passion, like someone flying off the handle and killing someone, the person is not intending to kill the person until they get mad enough to do it. In a murder of greed, such as for money, the person is ALWAYS sure that they will not be caught and that they have planned it out perfectly. In a murder of compulsion, like a serial killer, the person is driven to kill and will do so regardless of the law.

So if the death penalty doesn't work to prevent murder...it must be there for revenge. I could go into detail of why revenge is not a good thing to have institutionalized...but I'll leave that for another thread.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6920314 - 05/15/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

By who?

You really think the heads of CNN and Fox News are getting together around a smokey table at night and saying

"Hey, I know, Lets not report some murders and try to get people to hate Whites"

Do you honestly believe this is happening?

Do you also believe that GWB planted explosives to knock down the twin towers?

Because they both seem equally plausible to me...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6920332 - 05/15/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
By who?

You really think the heads of CNN and Fox News are getting together around a smokey table at night and saying

"Hey, I know, Lets not report some murders and try to get people to hate Whites"








:smile: its the JEEEEEEEWSSSSS

I agree, I'm just suspicious.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: trendal]
    #6921379 - 05/15/07 06:39 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
The difference here: nobody involved was rich.




Nobody in the Duke case was rich either


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6921390 - 05/15/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

trendal said:
The difference here: nobody involved was rich.




Nobody in the Duke case was rich either




At least one of those frat boys has parents that are loaded.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: DNKYD]
    #6921400 - 05/15/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You have a rather different idea of loaded than I do.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6921413 - 05/15/07 06:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6921418 - 05/15/07 06:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

This is part and parcel of shit that has gone on for ages. Tawana Brawley was an epic example of the man bites dog criteria for news coverage which was just continued with the Duke deal. And I certainly do believe that there is a bias in news rooms all over the country to champion the "downtrodden" groups. Oh look at this poor black woman. Not only does she have to deal with being black and a woman but now whitey is raping her too. Oh boo hoo hoo.


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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6921593 - 05/15/07 07:41 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> And people wonder why the majority of Americans support the death penalty.

Personally, I feel 23 hours a day in a supermax cell with no hope and only time is a much worse punishment. Death is too nice; an easy escape.




I agree 100%. I would much rather be killed than in a place like that.





Killing them is cheaper.


--------------------
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OfflineSeussA
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: minesstudent]
    #6923419 - 05/16/07 05:10 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> Killing them is cheaper.

Not with the current system. Besides, I think it is pretty shallow to be worried about costs when we are talking about taking somebodies life, regardless of what that person has done, or been accused of doing.

Getting back on topic...

> And I certainly do believe that there is a bias in news rooms all over the country to champion the "downtrodden" groups.

I agree that the media loves an underdog... but I still don't know why? Is it a racial bias? Is it a financial bias? Do underdog stories sell better? The bias is certainly there. Usually when there is a bias one can find money or fame/power to be the motivation behind it...


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Offlinepsilosibling
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Seuss]
    #6924455 - 05/16/07 11:02 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I thought i was gonna puke reading that.
Those sick fuckers.
Fucking revolting.
Death penalty wouldn't do fuck all for justice.
I say put them all in a straight jackets and in seperate padded rooms. Leave them there till the end of their days.
They will wish they were given the death penalty!

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Seuss]
    #6924553 - 05/16/07 11:21 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:

I agree that the media loves an underdog... but I still don't know why? Is it a racial bias? Is it a financial bias? Do underdog stories sell better? The bias is certainly there. Usually when there is a bias one can find money or fame/power to be the motivation behind it...




I think it's because they are constantly surrounded by these sad stories all the time and just out of natural human empathy wonder a little too much "can't anybody do anything?" The also help perpetuate a victim culture and then find themselves the target of those claiming victim status because they're easy marks.


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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6925531 - 05/16/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

and still, some people think that peaceful citizens should be deprived of the means to defend themselves from this sort of thing.


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6925581 - 05/16/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
The first I heard about it was this morning reading Snopes. (It happened back in January)

and I just find it interesting comparing the attention given the Duke case with this crime.

Some are celebrating ...
click
http://www.svengalimedia.com/race/sexiest_black_male_felon_2006.html




I was going to post this at totse, but they banned me again, this time until the 26th. Can someone else post this link?

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: trendal]
    #6925595 - 05/16/07 03:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Quote:

Phred said:
And people wonder why the majority of Americans support the death penalty.

Phred




How could the death penalty have prevented this crime?

There are 3 types of murder: that of passion, of greed, and of compulsion. The death penalty prevents none of these. In a murder of passion, like someone flying off the handle and killing someone, the person is not intending to kill the person until they get mad enough to do it. In a murder of greed, such as for money, the person is ALWAYS sure that they will not be caught and that they have planned it out perfectly. In a murder of compulsion, like a serial killer, the person is driven to kill and will do so regardless of the law.

So if the death penalty doesn't work to prevent murder...it must be there for revenge. I could go into detail of why revenge is not a good thing to have institutionalized...but I'll leave that for another thread.




Removing their genes from the gene pool would prevent people like them from being born.

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Luddite]
    #6925604 - 05/16/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:

Murderers aren't born...they are made. :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6925666 - 05/16/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Seuss said:

I agree that the media loves an underdog... but I still don't know why? Is it a racial bias? Is it a financial bias? Do underdog stories sell better? The bias is certainly there. Usually when there is a bias one can find money or fame/power to be the motivation behind it...




I think it's because they are constantly surrounded by these sad stories all the time and just out of natural human empathy wonder a little too much "can't anybody do anything?" The also help perpetuate a victim culture and then find themselves the target of those claiming victim status because they're easy marks.




Maybe instead of blaming the victim it would be more productive to understand causes and find practical solutions.

In any event, what is this victim culture you are referring to? I myself have yet to see any evidence for it, perhaps you can share what little data you have with me concerning it's nature, or at the very least, it's existence.

While searching for a wiki article on google I did come across:

Quote:

Rape culture is a widely used term within women's studies and radical feminism describing a culture in which rape and other sexual violence are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or encourage sexualized violence. Within the paradigm, acts of "harmless" sexism are commonly employed to validate and rationalize normative misogynistic practices; for instance, sexist jokes may be told to foster disrespect for women and an accompanying disregard for their well-being, which ultimately make their rape and abuse seem acceptable.

In a 1992 paper in the Journal of Social Issues entitled "A Feminist Redefinition of Rape and Sexual Assault: Historical Foundations and Change," Patricia Donat and John D'Emilio suggested that the term originated as "rape-supportive culture" in Susan Brownmiller's 1975 book Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape.[1]

In addition to its use as a theory to explain the occurrence of rape and domestic violence, rape culture has been described as detrimental to men as well as women. Some writers and speakers, such as Jackson Katz, Michael Kimmel, and Don McPherson, have said that it is intrinsically linked to gender roles that limit male self-expression and cause psychological harm to men. [2] It has also been linked to homophobia. For instance, in her 1983 "Twenty-Four Hour Truce" speech, Andrea Dworkin said that "if you want to do something about homophobia, you are going to have to do something about the fact that men rape, and that forced sex is not incidental to male sexuality but is in practice paradigmatic."[3] Also, researchers such as Philip Rumney and Martin Morgan-Taylor have used the rape culture paradigm to explain differences in how people perceive and treat male versus female victims of sexual assault.[4]

Examples of behaviors that typify rape culture include victim blaming, trivializing prison rape, and sexual objectification.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture


And:

Quote:

It has been proposed that one cause of victim-blaming is the "Just World Hypothesis". People who believe that the world has to be fair, may find it hard or impossible to accept a situation in which a person is unfairly and badly hurt for no cause or reason. This leads to a sense that, somehow, the victim must have surely done 'something' to deserve their fate. Another theory entails the need to protect one's own sense of invulnerability. This inspires people to believe that rape only happens to those who deserve or provoke the assault (Schneider et al., 1994). This is a way of feeling safer. If the potential victim avoids the behaviours of the past victims then they themselves will remain safe and feel less vulnerable. A global survey of attitudes toward sexual violence by the Global Forum for Health Research shows that victim-blaming concepts are at least partially accepted in many countries. In some countries, victim-blaming is more common, and women who have been raped are sometimes deemed to have behaved improperly. Often, these are countries where there is a significant social divide between the freedoms and status afforded to men and women. This theory dates from very ancient times: the biblical Book of Job offers a canonical exploration of it.

Supporters of this view (once referred to as "Job's comforters") must perforce accept that to do otherwise would require them to give up their belief in a just world, and require them to believe in a world where bad things — such as poverty, rape, starvation, and murder — can happen to good people for no good reason. The cognitive dissonance in doing this becomes too great, and results in victim-blaming.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

Other then that I found nothing that I didn't come off as dubious propaganda when searching for data concerning the matter.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (05/16/07 04:04 PM)

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6925950 - 05/16/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Never heard of the victim culture, huh. Interesting. It is a tendency to blame the other for the events that befall us without ever owning any responsibility for our own fate. Quite common in identity politics. Neither of your wikis has anything to do with it.


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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: wilshire]
    #6926086 - 05/16/07 05:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
and still, some people think that peaceful citizens should be deprived of the means to defend themselves from this sort of thing.





Interest in handgun carry permits up

"The carjacking really kicked it off," said Sgt. Mike Lett of the Knox County Sheriff's Office, referring to the January torture and murder of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom. Lett teaches the required course for handgun carry applicants at the sheriff's training facility.

"That was such a horrific incident. We've had some cases of men who already had carry permits bringing their wives to take the course."

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/local_news/article/0,1406,KNS_347_5514028,00.html

And how is this not a hate crime?????

Nobody urinates on people they don't even know, cuts off their breasts, cuts off their penis, repeatedly rapes over and over for days unless they want to TOTALLY destroy them. THIS was not murder, this was EVIL of the WORST KIND, this was HATE!!!!!!!!!!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6926174 - 05/16/07 06:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> And how is this not a hate crime?????

... the bias we have been speaking of.


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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6927713 - 05/16/07 11:40 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Never heard of the victim culture, huh. Interesting. It is a tendency to blame the other for the events that befall us without ever owning any responsibility for our own fate. Quite common in identity politics. Neither of your wikis has anything to do with it.




So what it comes down to is that you have no evidence for your claim.

As for the relevance of the wiki entries, that should be easily understood given even a cursory reading. The link between blaming the victim and your unsupported claim that there is some sort of "victim culture" should be obvious.

With regards to your claim of responsibility, such a statement seems to indicate that you adhere to just world theory:

Quote:

The just-world phenomenon, also called the just-world theory, just-world effect or just-world hypothesis, refers to the tendency for people to believe that the world is "just" and so therefore people "get what they deserve."




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_phenomenon

What you need to realize is that bad things happen to good people for no good reason. The world isn't always just. This is something you will come to understand as you continue to study politics and society.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6928829 - 05/17/07 07:21 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Never heard of the victim culture, huh. Interesting. It is a tendency to blame the other for the events that befall us without ever owning any responsibility for our own fate. Quite common in identity politics. Neither of your wikis has anything to do with it.




So what it comes down to is that you have no evidence for your claim.

As for the relevance of the wiki entries, that should be easily understood given even a cursory reading. The link between blaming the victim and your unsupported claim that there is some sort of "victim culture" should be obvious.




Every time somebody blames society for the crime they commit they have entered the victim culture. There are other types as well.Doesn't require any wiki, read a newspaper. Or google "culture of victimhood". I got 380,000 hits
Quote:



With regards to your claim of responsibility, such a statement seems to indicate that you adhere to just world theory:

Quote:

The just-world phenomenon, also called the just-world theory, just-world effect or just-world hypothesis, refers to the tendency for people to believe that the world is "just" and so therefore people "get what they deserve."




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_phenomenon





Nope, not at all. I adhere to the "tough shit and be prepared" hypothesis. Don't handicap yourself with stupid choices and you will almost surely be fine, although there are no guarantees. Somebody said this,
"The more prepared I am the better luck I seem to have." Doesn't have a damn thing to do with some mystical "just world". Einstein was quite incorrect, god does indeed play dice. The dice may actually be the only manifestation of a god that there is.
Quote:




What you need to realize is that bad things happen to good people for no good reason. The world isn't always just. This is something you will come to understand as you continue to study politics and society.




I already know this. I also know that not every "injustice of fortune" is anyone's obligation to fix and that a great many "injustices of fortune" are not totally accidental. Motorcycle accidents come to mind. Every person riding a motorcycle has consciously made a decision to put their health at much greater risk than those who do not.
http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/insurance/motorcycle/?table_sort_739024=7
Thus it should come as no great surprise when someone is fucked up in a motorcycle accident. Likewise mountain climbers killed in avalanches (accident? sure: unexpected? not so much).
Do I think these things should be forbidden? Nope. But when you get fucked up doing them it is largely a result of choices you made. Admitting that is taking responsibility for what happens to you.


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6928840 - 05/17/07 07:25 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
So what it comes down to is that you have no evidence for your claim.




That's okay, I've got my good man zappaisgod covered.

Quoting from The Talking Cure: TV Talk Shows and Women by Jane M. Shattuc, page 2:

Quote:


By 1996 the major proponents of this kind of talk - Oprah, Geraldo, and the Phil Donahue Show - had abandoned the fourishing format because it had hit a nerve: it had produced national controversy regarding the nature of politics, the role of tabloid culture in the US, the rise of a victim culture, and the exploitation of the disadvantaged for commercial gain.




So the term "victim culture" has been used to describe media that specifically highlights victims and places them center-stage.

On a side note, did anyone else find it odd that these two quotes appeared in the same post?:

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
In any event, what is this victim culture you are referring to? I myself have yet to see any evidence for it, perhaps you can share what little data you have with me concerning it's nature, or at the very least, it's existence.




Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
Other then that I found nothing that I didn't come off as dubious propaganda when searching for data concerning the matter.




So, FrenchSocialist would like to see any info you have so he can judge for himself, but we should all just take his word for it that the info he has seen on the subject is "dubious propaganda" rather than be allowed to judge for ourselves?

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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #6930531 - 05/17/07 02:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Be honest....if this was a gang of white kids who had done this to a black couple it would have been a national news story for days if not weeks.

Isn't it amazing that a disc jockey says, "nappy-headed hoes" and there is an unbelievable uproar that goes on forever? But, a heinous murder like this gets barely any press?




I have been saying this for a while now. There are countless other examples like this, and now with the internet, they are able to get out. I will finish reading this thread when I get home.

Look up the Wichita massacre, that's another fun case that got no attention.

To the people saying that these stories are not reported because "they don't sell", I say bullshit. If stories like this were emphasized at the same level as say the duke bullshit, people would take quite an interest. It is not politically correct to report cases like this at the same level as those other bullshit "stories" and I am still trying too figure out why. Maybe it is because stories like this go against the multicultural fairy tale we are sold constantly. What ever it is, I don't like it.

Edited by Hank, FTW (05/17/07 02:56 PM)

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6930980 - 05/17/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:Every time somebody blames society for the crime they commit they have entered the victim culture. There are other types as well.Doesn't require any wiki, read a newspaper. Or google "culture of victimhood". I got 380,000 hits




You haven't even shown that victim culture exists. Before you tell me the qualification of victim culture you should at the very least prove that it exists. If you provide no evidence for victim culture, then the only reasonable conclusion is to believe that it is an abitrary (and hence useless) category.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:Nope, not at all. I adhere to the "tough shit and be prepared" hypothesis. Don't handicap yourself with stupid choices and you will almost surely be fine, although there are no guarantees. Somebody said this,
"The more prepared I am the better luck I seem to have."




Yes, sometimes you can help your situation by being more prepared and sometimes you cannot. What does this have to do with the issue?

Quote:

zappaisgod said:I also know that not every "injustice of fortune" is anyone's obligation to fix




Whether misfortune is someone's to fix is a different matter then whether the misfortune is somebodies fault.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:Every person riding a motorcycle has consciously made a decision to put their health at much greater risk than those who do not.




What if the person is not aware of the risks? Or what if the only other means of transportation is even riskier? In those cases the person is not consciously putting themselves at increased risk.

Making a universal claim with regards to misfortune occuring as the result of poor decision making is another example of demonstrating an adherence to just world theory. You should realize that whenever you say "Every time a person suffers it is because of a bad decision" entails that the negative consequences are always at some level the result of some character trait.

It all comes down to the question of whether you admit that there are bad things which happen to people, for which there is practically nothing they can do to avoid the consequences or better the outcome. If you do not accept this then you are adhering to just world theory.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:Do I think these things should be forbidden? Nope. But when you get fucked up doing them it is largely a result of choices you made. Admitting that is taking responsibility for what happens to you.




Simply admitting to failure is not what constitutes responsibility. I can admit to choosing to repeatedly driving while intoxicated, that doesn't make me a responsible person.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (05/17/07 05:00 PM)

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Economist]
    #6931075 - 05/17/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
Quoting from The Talking Cure: TV Talk Shows and Women by Jane M. Shattuc, page 2:

Quote:


By 1996 the major proponents of this kind of talk - Oprah, Geraldo, and the Phil Donahue Show - had abandoned the fourishing format because it had hit a nerve: it had produced national controversy regarding the nature of politics, the role of tabloid culture in the US, the rise of a victim culture, and the exploitation of the disadvantaged for commercial gain.




So the term "victim culture" has been used to describe media that specifically highlights victims and places them center-stage.




So some tabloid shows express sympathies for victims and some writer has labeled this phenomenon an example of victim culture. That is not evidence because the writer is not utilizing any sort of meaningful or objective standard upon which to make a generalization.

I can note that there are presentations of mystery in "Sightings" and "Unsolved Mysteries", and say these are example of "mystery culture". I can then pigeonhole every presentation of a mysertious occurence in the media as an example of "mystery culture". Or I can note that there are many court and crime documentaries and present these as an example of "criminal culture" and then allege that every time the media makes a general or in depth report of crime that they are trying to make criminals sympathetic. All you are doing is making arbitrary categories on the basis of random observations.

Quote:

Economist said:So, FrenchSocialist would like to see any info you have so he can judge for himself, but we should all just take his word for it that the info he has seen on the subject is "dubious propaganda" rather than be allowed to judge for ourselves?




No, I simply assumed the audience would be smart enough to realize that attempting an internet search meant I was looking on google, and would realize after a very quick attempt to repeat the process that the only results of searching for "victim culture" were propaganda sources.

By propaganda sources I meant that they really applied nothing in the way of systematic reasoning or scientific method to their generalizations. They simply note that sometimes a talk show or some other form of media presents victims in a sympathetic light, and conclude that those observations alone reveal the existence of some widespread and socially harmful "victim culture" meant to destroy the concept of responsibility.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6931117 - 05/17/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:Every time somebody blames society for the crime they commit they have entered the victim culture. There are other types as well.Doesn't require any wiki, read a newspaper. Or google "culture of victimhood". I got 380,000 hits




You haven't even shown that victim culture exists. Before you tell me the qualification of victim culture you should at the very least prove that it exists. If you provide no evidence for victim culture, then the only reasonable conclusion is to believe that it is an abitrary (and hence useless) category.




What nonsense. 380,000 google hits for culture of victimhood and you still can't acknowledge the concept exists. I can only assume that your obtuseness is deliberate trolling. Have a nice day.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:Nope, not at all. I adhere to the "tough shit and be prepared" hypothesis. Don't handicap yourself with stupid choices and you will almost surely be fine, although there are no guarantees. Somebody said this,
"The more prepared I am the better luck I seem to have."




Yes, sometimes you can help your situation by being more prepared and sometimes you cannot. What does this have to do with the issue?




Not a thing. It is a response to your ascription of some ridiculous "just world" philosophy to me. Put words in your own mouth, don't worry about mine.
Quote:




Quote:

zappaisgod said:I also know that not every "injustice of fortune" is anyone's obligation to fix




Whether misfortune is someone's to fix is a different matter then whether the misfortune is somebodies fault.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:Every person riding a motorcycle has consciously made a decision to put their health at much greater risk than those who do not.




What if the person is not aware of the risks? Or what if the only other means of transportation is even riskier? In those cases the person is not consciously putting themselves at increased risk.




Anybody that stupid should not have a license to operate a motor vehicle and what transportation is riskier. What about mountain climbing? Somehow, I'm not the least bit surprised that you would miss the point and focus on nonsensical details. Not the least.
Quote:



Making a universal claim with regards to misfortune occuring as the result of poor decision making is another example of demonstrating an adherence to just world theory. You should realize that whenever you say "Every time a person suffers it is because of a bad decision" entails that the negative consequences are always at some level the result of some character trait.




I made no such claim. The claim I made is that each decision affects the odds. See my reference to god and dice. Nor do I think that risk taking is a character flaw, provided it endangers no one else. Do you understand the concept of probability?
Quote:



It all comes down to the question of whether you admit that there are bad things which happen to people, for which there is practically nothing they can do to avoid the consequences or better the outcome. If you do not accept this then you are adhering to just world theory.




Of course there are some events completely beyond our control. Losing an uninsured house in New Orleans to a hurricane is not one of them. Get it yet?
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:Do I think these things should be forbidden? Nope. But when you get fucked up doing them it is largely a result of choices you made. Admitting that is taking responsibility for what happens to you.




Simply admitting to failure is not what constitutes responsibility. I can admit to choosing to repeatedly driving while intoxicated, that doesn't make me a responsible person.





Who said anything about failure. Nor does accepting responsibility for what befalls you make you a responsible person. There are lots of irresponsible people blundering about the earth making apologies for their fuck ups. They accept responsibility. They are not, however responsible people in the sense that you are using it. Are you a native English speaker?

Accepting responsibility in the case of driving drunk by saying "yes, I was an asshole and killed those people" instead of "I am an innocent victim of my parents/society/whatever they made me drink and kill those people" is not quite the same as a responsible person who didn't drive drunk in the first place. Get it yet? Because 380,000 google hits understand the difference.


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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6931513 - 05/17/07 07:18 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
So some tabloid shows express sympathies for victims and some writer has labeled this phenomenon an example of victim culture. That is not evidence because the writer is not utilizing any sort of meaningful or objective standard upon which to make a generalization.




Correct me if I'm wrong, but you and zappaisgod were arguing about whether or not a theory of "victim culture" exists in America. I have provided you with evidence that writers who advance such a theory have been published. You may not believe in the theory, but that does not mean it is non-existant.

As for whether or not the theory is true, that's a different story, but I would like to point out that your own links to "rape culture" are also based on non-objective standards. You can look at the footnotes in your own pasted wikipedia articles for proof of this.

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
No, I simply assumed the audience would be smart enough to realize that attempting an internet search meant I was looking on google, and would realize after a very quick attempt to repeat the process that the only results of searching for "victim culture" were propaganda sources.




Zappaisgod got 380,000 hits when he searched for "culture of victimhood". Are you claiming to have gone through 380,000 webpages?

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6932058 - 05/17/07 09:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
To the people saying that these stories are not reported because "they don't sell", I say bullshit. If stories like this were emphasized at the same level as say the duke bullshit, people would take quite an interest.




So you think that coverage of this story could be as ongoing as the duke case if the media simply decided they wanted it to be a big story? It's that easy for them to pick and choose?

I just plain don't agree. The Duke scandal made a good story for several key reasons.
1) First and most importantly, there was a trial involved in which it was one person's word over another. That way, people get to watch and argue while the trial is going on over who they think will win. There are millions of examples of court case scandals that reel in ratings over weeks and weeks. Clinton's impeachment. OJ Simpson. The Menendez trial. Amy Fisher. I could go on but I don't think I need to.

2) People love scandals about the secret immoral world of rich frat boys. Like Scent of a Woman or the Skulls or that sort of thing.

3) People love scandals about women being sexually degraded (torture goes too far)

4) People like stories when minorities are attacked by white men.

I also see some key reasons why this other story about the couple murdered/tortured by 4 black men doesn't sell.

1) It is really disgusting/horrifying. No one would should be entertained by such a heinous act. It just makes you sad.

2) Like reports of soldiers dying in Iraq, no one is interested in hearing about the tragic death of young bright people. Its just too ugly.

3) It reinforces stereotypes that latently exist in the public's mind, e.g. the murderers come off looking like wild savages, worse than beasts really. They are black monsters. These are stereotypes that, for better or for worse, the public is doing its best to ignore.

In summation, I really think you need to understand that the media comprise an entertainment business. I think they know the difference between a story that sells and a story that doesn't, and no matter how you package this particular one, it is not as entertaining as the duke rape scandal.

Quote:

Maybe it is because stories like this go against the multicultural fairy tale we are sold constantly. What ever it is, I don't like it.




I'm just curious what you mean by "multicultural fairy tale." Do you think the races should be segregated?


--------------------
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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Invisiblememes
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6932156 - 05/17/07 09:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I read the first 2 pages and skipped to make this reply.

Why didn't this get as much coverage?

-because nobody's surprised? a group of thugs rape and kill a white couple... anybody surprised? not me, its not out of the ordinary - shit happens when yer dealini w/ gangsta's

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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: gluke bastid]
    #6932834 - 05/18/07 12:09 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
To the people saying that these stories are not reported because "they don't sell", I say bullshit. If stories like this were emphasized at the same level as say the duke bullshit, people would take quite an interest.




So you think that coverage of this story could be as ongoing as the duke case if the media simply decided they wanted it to be a big story? It's that easy for them to pick and choose?

I just plain don't agree. The Duke scandal made a good story for several key reasons.
1) First and most importantly, there was a trial involved in which it was one person's word over another. That way, people get to watch and argue while the trial is going on over who they think will win. There are millions of examples of court case scandals that reel in ratings over weeks and weeks. Clinton's impeachment. OJ Simpson. The Menendez trial. Amy Fisher. I could go on but I don't think I need to.

2) People love scandals about the secret immoral world of rich frat boys. Like Scent of a Woman or the Skulls or that sort of thing.

3) People love scandals about women being sexually degraded (torture goes too far)

4) People like stories when minorities are attacked by white men.

I also see some key reasons why this other story about the couple murdered/tortured by 4 black men doesn't sell.

1) It is really disgusting/horrifying. No one would should be entertained by such a heinous act. It just makes you sad.

2) Like reports of soldiers dying in Iraq, no one is interested in hearing about the tragic death of young bright people. Its just too ugly.

3) It reinforces stereotypes that latently exist in the public's mind, e.g. the murderers come off looking like wild savages, worse than beasts really. They are black monsters. These are stereotypes that, for better or for worse, the public is doing its best to ignore.

In summation, I really think you need to understand that the media comprise an entertainment business. I think they know the difference between a story that sells and a story that doesn't, and no matter how you package this particular one, it is not as entertaining as the duke rape scandal.


Quote:

Maybe it is because stories like this go against the multicultural fairy tale we are sold constantly. What ever it is, I don't like it.







I'm just curious what you mean by "multicultural fairy tale." Do you think the races should be segregated?




Well I live in Canada, and I think our multiculturalism is working relatively well. In the USA however, I think you should cut your loses and separate or something. It just seems like things are going to get worse before they get better. Maybe I am a pessimist, but I think it's a reality you will soon have to realize.

To your points made, I agree with you, but how do they justify this joke of a Media.

"It reinforces stereotypes that latently exist in the public's mind, e.g. the murderers come off looking like wild savages, worse than beasts really. They are black monsters. These are stereotypes that, for better or for worse, the public is doing its best to ignore."

Bingo.

I don't know the specifics of how these people got car jacked, but maybe if they paid attention to this stereotype( I am not saying it is right) they would still be alive. Who knows, I am just trying to stimulate good debate.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6933356 - 05/18/07 04:07 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> It just seems like things are going to get worse before they get better.

Granted, I haven't lived in the US in over five years, but it certainly isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. These sort of events are far and few between. The biggest issue is a perceived lack of hope by those stuck in poverty and a welfare system that is geared to maintaining people's poverty rather than helping them to overcome it. Contrary to popular belief by racists, poverty, not race, is the problem.

Quote:

In summation, I really think you need to understand that the media comprise an entertainment business. I think they know the difference between a story that sells and a story that doesn't, and no matter how you package this particular one, it is not as entertaining as the duke rape scandal.




So the bias is financially motivated? To hell with journalistic ethics, as long as it sells, that is what is reported? Tabloid press... (I don't disagree with you, assuming I am reading you correctly.)


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Economist]
    #6933372 - 05/18/07 04:35 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you and zappaisgod were arguing about whether or not a theory of "victim culture" exists in America.




We were debating the existence of the actual cultural, not whether or not the theory exists. At least I thought we were (seeing as the concept of all sorts of nonsense-ranging from flying saucers to big foot exist).

Quote:

Economist said:Zappaisgod got 380,000 hits when he searched for "culture of victimhood". Are you claiming to have gone through 380,000 webpages?




No.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (05/18/07 05:06 AM)

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6933380 - 05/18/07 04:42 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What nonsense. 380,000 google hits for culture of victimhood and you still can't acknowledge the concept exists.




Hehe. So you have changed your argument from saying that victim culture exists, to saying the "concept" of victim culture exists.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:Accepting responsibility in the case of driving drunk by saying "yes, I was an asshole and killed those people" instead of "I am an innocent victim of my parents/society/whatever they made me drink and kill those people" is not quite the same as a responsible person who didn't drive drunk in the first place. Get it yet? Because 380,000 google hits understand the difference.




Doesn't that contradict:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:Do I think these things should be forbidden? Nope. But when you get fucked up doing them it is largely a result of choices you made. Admitting that is taking responsibility for what happens to you.




Because that implies that merely admitting mistakes equates to "taking responsibility" in a general sense (hence the phrase what happens to you, not just happened). Perhaps you merely mistyped?


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (05/18/07 04:50 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6933384 - 05/18/07 04:48 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> So you have changed your argument from saying that victim culture exists, to saying the "concept" of victim culture exists.

Why are you nitpicking at the wording unless you are unable to argue against the actual point? There are a ton a papers out there that discuss the concept of democracy. That does not mean democracy exists only as a concept. Hardly.


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Seuss]
    #6933388 - 05/18/07 04:52 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Why are you nitpicking at the wording unless you are unable to argue against the actual point? There are a ton a papers out there that discuss the concept of democracy. That does not mean democracy exists only as a concept.




Yes and that alone doesn't mean democracy exists as more then a concept either. Merely quoting the number of Google hits on a subject proves nothing. I just got 64,900,000 hits searching for "big foot", in your opinion, is that evidence for big foot existing as more then a concept?


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (05/18/07 04:53 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6933392 - 05/18/07 05:01 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Much better.  :smile:  Thank you.  Now, if you can apply that logic to Zappa's "concept" rather than my silly example, and we can get back to a decent debate.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6933737 - 05/18/07 08:42 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:

Well I live in Canada, and I think our multiculturalism is working relatively well. In the USA however, I think you should cut your loses and separate or something. It just seems like things are going to get worse before they get better. Maybe I am a pessimist, but I think it's  a reality you will soon have to realize.





hmmm well I live in Baltimore MD USA where there are more black people than white people and yeah we have our problems but most of the black people who I work and live alongside are not only not violent criminals they are nice people. So I won't be segregating any time soon. :shrug:


--------------------
:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6935602 - 05/18/07 05:24 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
We were debating the existence of the actual cultural, not whether or not the theory exists. At least I thought we were (seeing as the concept of all sorts of nonsense-ranging from flying saucers to big foot exist).




And I provided you with a book written by an Associate Professor of Media studies at Emerson claiming that there is infact a theory of victim culture.

Do you have a competing work by an academic claiming that no such culture exists, or are you just bringing up flying saucers and big foot to avoid dealing with the evidence at hand?

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
Quote:

Economist said:Zappaisgod got 380,000 hits when he searched for "culture of victimhood". Are you claiming to have gone through 380,000 webpages?




No.




Then how do you know that they are all nothing but propaganda?

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: Economist]
    #6936939 - 05/19/07 12:30 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
And I provided you with a book written by an Associate Professor of Media studies at Emerson claiming that there is infact a theory of victim culture.




What is his evidence?


Quote:

Economist said:
Then how do you know that they are all nothing but propaganda?




I quickly read a couple of articles, looked at the headlines of the rest and made a generalization. Seriously, do I have to look at all 64 million articles on big foot to know that the concept of big foot is baloney? Sometimes you can just make a rational inference from a cursory reading.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (05/19/07 12:33 AM)

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6937856 - 05/19/07 07:20 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

the media in general plays off our "white guilt"
unfortunately this is an invention of the left and the pc police

crimes against whites are never hate crimes
crimes against black by whites are always hate crimes

PC liberals have a bad habit of trying to infantalize minorities, expecially blacks
its a weird kind of racism....they seem to think we should let blacks slide on more things. "oh they're black, they've had it tough we should expect it from them" then when whites do something its "well he's white, he should have known better"

back to this story...ok so if people wanna argue liberal media bias is behind this story not being covered..why the fuck isnt fox covering this shit?

this story is something id figure oreilly to be all over
or hannity especially, he could use this to prove some bias and support 2nd ammendment rights
i dont get it, this is right up fox's alley, its scandalous, horrible details involved..
maybe in this "post imus" climate, everyone is too afraid of being labeled "racist"

even though i lean left, i have absolutely no white guilt
i dont feel bad for black people
i dont think they're second class citizens
i had no part in segregating them
i had no part in enslaving them
we need to start treating blacks as equals, not as children benevolant white people must treat with kid gloves

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #6937897 - 05/19/07 07:41 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
the media in general plays off our "white guilt"
unfortunately this is an invention of the left and the pc police

crimes against whites are never hate crimes
crimes against black by whites are always hate crimes





Can you give me any specific examples on how the media plays on white guilt?

Are you sure crimes against blacks by whites are always hate crimes? If you are going to expect me to accept that claim I will need a source.

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:back to this story...ok so if people wanna argue liberal media bias is behind this story not being covered..why the fuck isnt fox covering this shit?




I'm not sure if you meant that as an actual question, because if you presented that as a rhetorical question you are right. The media is more sensationalist then anything else.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (05/19/07 08:36 AM)

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6938162 - 05/19/07 09:58 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

While it's not as absolute as KOTT put it:

Quote:

67.9 percent were victims of an anti-black bias.
19.9 percent were victims of an anti-white bias.




http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/victims.htm

That was for the 2005 year. I'm not going to even attempt to explain what has caused this disparity, but I would guess that it is a combination of more conventional racism against blacks (which led to violence) and a police and court system which finds it more acceptable to bring hate crime to the table when a minority is the victim. Like I said before, this is just speculation.

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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6938254 - 05/19/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I seem to remember a story about two white guys doing something similar to a black women,not too long ago.That wasnt headline news.Thats because just like this crime it wasn't the type of crime  that the media can milk out for days. I agree that there is a bias in the media but it doesnt go as far as complete censorship.:rolleyes:

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Re: National Media's Refusal to Cover White Couple's Murder Suggests PC at Work [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6941714 - 05/20/07 06:41 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
Quote:

Economist said:
And I provided you with a book written by an Associate Professor of Media studies at Emerson claiming that there is infact a theory of victim culture.




What is his evidence?




Her evidence of a victim culture comes from interviews with the producers of day-time talk shows during their upswing in the late 1980s and early 1990s (and backing them up with ratings data).

The producers noticed that ratings for shows increased whenever the guests were portrayed as victims, no matter who the guests were. They could even bring back the exact same guests they had from their lower-ratings years (mid-1980s) and, so long as they were portrayed as victims, the ratings would stay up. This eventually hit an extreme, where even convicted murderers would be brought on the shows and portrayed as victims of love, child abuse, whatever.

For whatever reason, Americans wanted to watch television about victims, and she refers to this as a "victim culture".

Now, I was kind enough to share with you evidence of a victim culture. Are you finally going to present competing evidence?

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
I quickly read a couple of articles, looked at the headlines of the rest and made a generalization. Seriously, do I have to look at all 64 million articles on big foot to know that the concept of big foot is baloney? Sometimes you can just make a rational inference from a cursory reading.




Again with the hypocrisy.

You demand that we share our evidence with you so you can come to your own conclusions, but you fail to share what you have found and want us to accept your judgements about it unquestioningly.

If what you came across really is as silly as bigfoot, why didn't you just share it with us in the first place so we could draw the "obvious" conclusion?

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