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Obsessing
    #6914327 -



Obsessing or indulging if you prefer are the best ways IMO to stay confused and unhappy. Soundness of mind is, it seems, a most difficult trait to acquire.

Cutting the chains of self-reflection may be the key to our freedom. But does hardly anyone really want freedom? Maybe once we really see what freedom entails the comfy cozy blanket of culture and doing and obsession and indulging doesn't seem so bad after all. Freedom might ask tons of us. You might have to go it alone mostly. It might ask for soundness of mind which is so difficult to come by. I have some but I'm pretty lazy about getting more and the result of that is my life experience to this point. Not horrible, yet far from what I tell myself that I want.

What is soundness of mind for you? Do you think you have it? How do you acquire it?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (05/14/07 01:35 PM)

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Icelander]
    #6914432 -

i dont think indulging is an appropriate term; maybe addiction? i see nothing wrong with an indulgence as long as this indulgence does not dominate your thoughts. if you are drunk on the superficial, then this can in fact prevent your complete soundness of mind.

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Icelander]
    #6914607 -

Icelander said:

It might ask for soundness of mind which is so difficult to come by. I have some but I'm pretty lazy about getting more and the result of that is my life experience to this point.


i battle with this a lot in my life as well. however, i find that instead of actually seeking and actually grasping that 'soundness' that you speak of, i often assume what exactly it might be and how it'd change me. i think that because of this i become 'lazy' and rather i focus on what feels right at the moment instead of stepping out and truly observing. i don't know why i assume things like that.

maybe i'm afraid of what i will see.

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Icelander]
    #6914617 -

To still the mind, you must know exactly how thoughts and sensations arise. There are a bunch of thought moments happening between every subtle event you perform, from snapping your fingers, to fleeting random thoughts. Through great skill in the art of meditation you can begin to actually see these thought moments arise and cut each of them off eventually leading you to the original source. Understanding the dependent origin of the thought gives you a lot of insight on your behaviors and why you do the things you do.

"Let us take a few examples that establish the nature of dependent origination. Let us take first an example used by the Buddha Himself. The Buddha has said the flame in an oil lamp burns dependent upon the oil and the wick. When the oil and the wick are present, the flame in an oil lamp burns. If either of these is absent, the flame will cease to burn. This example illustrates the principle of dependent origination with respect to a flame in an oil lamp. Let us take the example of the sprout. Dependent upon the seed, earth, water, air and sunlight the sprout arises. There are in fact innumerable examples of dependent origination because there is no existing phenomenon that is not the effect of dependent origination. All these phenomena arise dependent upon a number of causal factors. Very simply, this is the principle of dependent origination."
- http://www.buddhanet.net/funbud12.htm


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Obsessing [Re: psyka]
    #6914675 -

There are a bunch of thought moments happening between every subtle event you perform, from snapping your fingers, to fleeting random thoughts.

As far as I know there is no science to back this. Many reflexive actions are taken without thought, stimulated by the R-brain.
But I will agree that there is much though that we choose to not be aware of. Meditation or just paying attention to your thought process will reveal this is true.

I don't know of anyone who meditates who can really still their mind completely for any length of time. (Although there may be some) There may be other techniques that will work for this although I wouldn't know. I gave up on stilling my mind completely and now just go for slowing it down a little. That's enough to accomplish some very nice things in my everyday experience.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Obsessing *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #6916085 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Obsessing [Re: dorkus]
    #6916196 -

We are here (it seems) as experiencers. To experience life in it's fullness or as fully as possible. That's what I want. Being lazy is being fearful IMO. Relaxed is different. Lazy is an excuse.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Obsessing *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #6916540 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Obsessing [Re: dorkus]
    #6916863 -

dr_mandelbrot said:
Yeah, sometimes I feel fear. Should I fear fear? I think JFK was very wrong about that.

What about being lazy while travelling different countries. Walking much in cities, nature and such, but also loving to laze around in bed. Are those lazy moments the fearful moments? Or is this being relaxed?

What about inner life? Was Kafka only fearful when he advised some seclusion?

As a baby they say I was lazy, but always laughed and smiled and was very calm. Was that laziness a product of fear too?

I think always having to experience something, always having to take in all that is out there, can be just as much a sign of fear. A fear of feelings that can surface. They become hidden under all the activity.


Well "they" can call a baby lazy if they like but that don't make it so. I don't belive there are lazy babies. Of course we all have our individual pace but as I said there is nothing wrong with being relaxed. There is nothing wrong with doing nothing if there is nothing to do. See what I mean? Now so called lazy people just don't want to move into something that might be uncomfortable IMO. They avoid experience because they think it's too difficult or might not be what they want it to be. That's a different thing than just being relaxed and enjoying life.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Icelander]
    #6917119 -

a great area of questioning.
and immersing in the moment gives perspective


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Icelander]
    #6917161 -

So you're situation is that you could be more free but you are too lazy? And that stems from fear? What does this have to do with obsessing and indulging?

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Epigallo]
    #6917179 -

Hold on, because I'm not sure I understood your question... did you ask what fear has to do with obsessing?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Obsessing [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6917187 -

I'm just trying to follow Icelander's train of thought...trying to connect the last couple posts with the first.

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Epigallo]
    #6917192 -

IMO, obsessing/indulging are fear based distracting mechanisms.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Epigallo]
    #6917202 -

Yes, but I really didn't understood your post, I'm not trying to be ironic or something. Was that what you were arguing about?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Icelander]
    #6917241 -

Man, I had a really good quote about that situation of a psychologist's commentary on Gopi Krishna's situation. He said that the way to overcome obsession is to approach them with precision. You do not really stop it; there is a reason it is there - you live with it and use it.

That doesn't really do the story followed by the commentary any justice though.

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Epigallo]
    #6917251 -

I wasn't arguing anything - I don't know how to say it much better than trying to follow Icelander's thought process - getting a feel for his situation.

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Epigallo]
    #6917322 -

Well I think that fear leads to obsessing. What makes me think this way is the fact that if one is in fear, one has the tendency to "hang on" to something in order to create a sense of balance (which is fake of course) but it can give a feeling of certainty nevertheless.
I think it's in our nature to look for balance in our lives only that when we're being blinded by fear or anxiety we don't see things straight anymore, our perceptions can play big tricks in us and we become obsessive. But not only.
Fear is the generator of many unhealthy patterns from our lives.
Try to remember a moment when you felt in fear and what was your behavior. You'll probably notice/remember that you were looking for anything that could give you impression that you were stronger. It is just the way it works as a measure of self preservation only that it is kind of addictive and one can easily jump from that to some psychological disorder.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Obsessing [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6917361 -

yeah, I see
kind of like smoking when you're nervous
only maybe not so direct

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Epigallo]
    #6917390 -

Yeah. Kind of like being nervous indeed. Being nervous is, in my opinion another nuance of fear.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obsessing [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6917405 -

Well I think that fear leads to obsessing. What makes me think this way is the fact that if one is in fear, one has the tendency to "hang on" to something in order to create a sense of balance (which is fake of course) but it can give a feeling of certainty nevertheless.
I think it's in our nature to look for balance in our lives only that when we're being blinded by fear or anxiety we don't see things straight anymore, our perceptions can play big tricks in us and we become obsessive. But not only.
Fear is the generator of many unhealthy patterns from our lives.
Try to remember a moment when you felt in fear and what was your behavior. You'll probably notice/remember that you were looking for anything that could give you impression that you were stronger. It is just the way it works as a measure of self preservation only that it is kind of addictive and one can easily jump from that to some psychological disorder.
:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (05/14/07 09:50 PM)

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Epigallo]
    #6917438 -

bradleycny said:
Man, I had a really good quote about that situation of a psychologist's commentary on Gopi Krishna's situation. He said that the way to overcome obsession is to approach them with precision. You do not really stop it; there is a reason it is there - you live with it and use it.

That doesn't really do the story followed by the commentary any justice though.


In this thread (which I admit is somewhat confusing) I wanted to explore the idea of a sound mind. What that means and if we are all capable of sound thinking. Or is that too frightening and difficult for many or most of us. Considering that the freedom I mentioned is much more and requires much more of us than the idea that freedom allows us to do whatever we want. It is the freedom to experience life as it is rather than how we would like it or what makes us feel most safe.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Icelander]
    #6917499 -

Well that sounds like the same situation zen people describe when they talk about giving up the ego. You don't have the freedom to say I want this, I want that, but you get the whole universe in return.

To me it's just sacrificing your actions to a cause greater than your personal likes and dislikes. If I wanted to get myself to do that I think I would read myths involving the hero archetype.

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Epigallo]
    #6917540 -

And that greater cause would be, in your opinion?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Obsessing [Re: Icelander]
    #6917619 -

That's a tough one. I guess it must be noticeably helpful to another person or group and be done with total attention on the task. I guess it doesn't have to be for some one else, but usually something special needs to inspire some one to completely devote their attention to a task or set of tasks. We can exercise attention in what we do whenever we want, but usually we just get lazy and don't care. But with inspiration, some one might dig deeply into their resources and align their actions with more fundamental principles of the way things operate, to the effect of a greater change.

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