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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #674606 - 06/12/02 11:02 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Fine, you asked for it, you'll get it...one money trail coming up...I'll need a bit of time to organize and reference the info though.

Just as a side note...here is a document straight from the CIA website detailing their involvement in the Iran Contra affair...
Allegations of Connections Between CIA and Cocaine Trafficking


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #674633 - 06/12/02 11:27 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Here is an excellent article...although I'm still working on the money trail...this gives you an idea of the corruption, all with references at the bottom...you need Adobe to see it.
Washington and the politics of Drugs


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #674746 - 06/12/02 12:48 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

More of my crazy propaganda...

"In my 30-year history in the Drug Enforcement Administration and related agencies, the major targets of my investigations almost invariably turned out to be working for the CIA." --Dennis Dayle, former chief of an elite DEA enforcement unit. FROM: Peter Dale Scott & Jonathan Marshall, Cocaine Politics: Drugs, Armies, and the CIA in Central America, Berkeley: U. of CA Press, 1991, pp. x-xi.

"For decades, the CIA, the Pentagon, and secret organizations like Oliver North's Enterprise have been supporting and protecting the world's biggest drug dealers.... The Contras and some of their Central American allies ... have been documented by DEA as supplying ... at least 50 percent of our national cocaine consumption. They were the main conduit to the United States for Colombian cocaine during the 1980's. The rest of the drug supply ... came from other CIA-supported groups, such as DFS (the Mexican CIA) ... [and] other groups and/or individuals like Manual Noriega." (Ex-DEA agent Michael Levine: The Big White Lie: The CIA and the Cocaine/Crack Epidemic)

""I have put thousands of Americans away for tens of thousands of years for less evidence for conspiracy with less evidence than is available against CIA people. . . . I personally was involved in a deep-cover case that went to the top of the drug world in three countries. The CIA killed it."
Former DEA Agent Michael Levine
CNBC-TV, October 8, 1996

I could go on forever about the CIA and drugs, and thier involvement is already well documented by the DEA. I will still post the money trail soon for those that still think the CIA is not involved in Drugs...although I really don't think I should be wasting my time with something that is the worst kept secret in the U.S.





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OfflinePhred
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #676365 - 06/13/02 11:05 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Rono, did you even READ the link you posted? I did.

Here are some quotes from it:

Did CIA have any relationship or dealings with Ross, Blandon or Meneses? No information has been found to indicate that any past or present employee of CIA, or anyone acting on behalf of CIA, had any direct or indirect dealing with Ricky Ross, Oscar Danilo Blandon or Juan Norwin Meneses. Additionally, no information has been found to indicate that CIA had any relationship or contact with Ronald J. Lister or David Scott Weekly. No information has been found to indicate that any of these individuals was ever employed by CIA, or met by CIA employees or anyone acting on CIA's behalf.

Was the drug trafficking of Ross, Blandon or Meneses linked to CIA or Contra activities? No information has been found to indicate that Ross provided any money to any Contra group at any time, or that he had any contact or connection to the Contras or CIA.

No information has been found to indicate that the drug trafficking activities of Blandon and Meneses were motivated by any commitment to support the Contra cause or Contra activities undertaken by CIA.

Did CIA intervene or otherwise play a role in any investigative and judicial processes involving the drug trafficking activities of Ross, Blandon or Meneses? No information has been found to indicate that CIA hindered, or otherwise intervened in, the investigation, arrest, prosecution, or conviction of Ross, Blandon, or Meneses. CIA shared what information it had--specifically on Meneses' 1979 drug trafficking in Nicaragua--with U.S. law enforcement entities when it was received and again when subsequently requested by the FBI.

Did any of the individuals who were arrested in "The Frogman Case" have any relationship with CIA? Were the drug trafficking activities of any of those individuals linked to the Contras? No information has been found to indicate that CIA or individuals acting on behalf of CIA had any relationship with Julio Zavala, Carlos Cabezas or others who were arrested or charged in connection with the 1983 Frogman Case, though a relative of one of them did have a relationship with CIA until mid-1982.

No information has been found to indicate that Julio Zavala, Carlos Cabezas or other Frogman Case defendants were connected to the Contras or that the Contras benefited from their drug trafficking activities. No information has been found to support Cabezas' claim that he provided financial assistance to the Contras from his drug trafficking activities. While two individuals who were active in the Contra movement wrote letters indicating that the money seized from Zavala belonged to the Contras, it appears this was done though Zavala's wife's connections with old family friends and not because Zavala was active in the Contra movement.

Was CIA involved in the investigation of The Frogman Case? No information has been found to indicate that CIA or anyone acting on behalf of CIA was involved in the criminal investigation of Julio Zavala and his associates, though a relative of one of those who were arrested or charged did have a relationship with CIA until mid-1982.

To what extent and why did CIA become involved in the prosecution of The Frogman Case? CIA did make contact with prosecutors in the Zavala prosecution in order to protect what CIA believed was an operational equity, i.e., a Contra support group in which it had an operational interest. A CIA cable indicates that approximately $36,000 seized from Zavala at the time of his arrest was returned to Zavala--based on the claim they were Contra funds--by the prosecutors at CIA's request. However, the prosecutors state that the decision to return Zavala's money was based on other considerations, not CIA's representations, and that there was no evidentiary value to retaining the money. In any event, the actions taken by CIA to have the cash returned did not appear to be intended to influence the outcome of Zavala's trial, which resulted in his conviction.

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

Thanks for going to the trouble of searching for and posting a link that bolsters MY position. I am still awaiting one which supports YOUR position.

pinky


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: Phred]
    #676572 - 06/13/02 01:29 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Good show old chap

LMAO @ Rono




--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #677061 - 06/13/02 06:34 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

excuse me...did YOU read it?

"The last references to Meneses that appeared in CIA reporting occurred in December 1995 when three cables discussing "Possible Attempts to Link CIA to Narcotraffickers" were sent by the DO's LA Division to certain Stations. On December 4, 1995, Headquarters asked one of the Stations whether it possessed any information concerning Meneses:...'In November 1995, we were informed by DEA that a reporter has been inquiring about activities in Central America and any links with the Contras. . . . ((Meneses)) is currently in jail in Managua for trafficking 800 pounds of cocaine. DEA [has been alerted] that Meneses will undoubtedly claim that he was trafficking narcotics on behalf of [CIA] to generate money for the Contras. Query whether Station can clarify or amplify on the above information to better identify Meneses or confirm or refute any claims he may make. HQS traces on FNU ((Meneses)) reveal extensive entries. One possible hit is: Norwing [sic] ((Meneses)) Cantarero, who was a kingpin of narcotics trafficking in Nicaragua prior to the fall of Somoza . . . . one Norwin Meneses probably identical to above kingpin, was involved in drug activities in Costa Rica. He was apparently known as the Nicaraguan Mafia, dealing in drugs, weapons, smuggling and the laundering of counterfeit money."

"
Individual Statements: Miranda. Miranda was arrested in November 1991 along with Norwin Meneses in connection with the attempted transshipment of 764 kilograms of cocaine through Nicaragua to the United States. He was interviewed in Masaiya Prison, Grenada, Nicaragua.

Miranda states that the Sandinistas were involved in trafficking to raise funds and that he was personally involved in this effort from 1981 until 1985. He says that he was asked by his superiors in the Sandinista military to contact Meneses in 1981 about the possibility of drug trafficking on behalf of the Sandinistas, but that Meneses declined to participate. Miranda states that Meneses told him that Colombian aircraft would transport cocaine to Costa Rica where it would be transferred to other planes that had brought weapons for the Contras from the United States. The aircraft returning to the United States would land near Ft. Worth, Texas from which the cocaine would be shipped by ground vehicles to California.

"LMAO @ Rono"...you were saying?...do you honeatly think there would be a a huge issue made ove the Iran/contra affair if they were innocent??? WAKE UP!


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #677449 - 06/13/02 11:40 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Oh I see...they are guilty until proven innocent...not innocent until proven guilty in the World according to Rono.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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OfflineLOBO
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Registered: 03/19/01
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #677628 - 06/14/02 05:30 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

In reply to:

And the U.S. isn't an evil empire...but it's leadership is. Power Corrupts, and Absolute Power (which the U.S. has) Corrupts Absolutely.




That's the same way I feel, it is our government that has been high jack by evil doers, I have lived under a suppressive government, and this is how they start, Americans wake up before every thing is lost, they want to make the CIA and FBI as one, what is that the "KGB"
The hole thing has a bad smell to me.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #688990 - 06/19/02 08:34 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Hi everyone,

I thought I would throw my opinion out on the first post of this thread. It was expressing disgust for the government associating drug use with terrorism.

I think we have all seen those anti-drug commercials that have fictional drug users saying stuff like "I am not hurting anyone....It is my body" etc..etc.. and then it says "Drug use supports terrorism". I think the main current event that this commercial is trying to reference is the situation in Colombia. A huge rebel force called FARC is fighting the government and doing nasty things, like kidnapping and murdering people ....i.e. terrorism. This rebel force gets most of it is money from the cocaine trade. So when we buy coke, FARC gets money to carry out violent actions.

This is obviously true. People who do coke are helping to support FARC. There is no doubt of that. But the commercial refuses to state the obvious.. If drugs were legal, they would not be as valuable. And if coke wasn't valuable, FARC would not exist.

Prohibiton encourages an economic black market where anything goes, including violent crime in order to obtain a product or to control the market.

What happened in the 1930s when alcohol was illegal? Gangs took over. Officials were bribed. People were assassinated. Corruption and violence reigned in the alcohol market. Now that alcohol is legal, do you ever hear of a "beer deal gone bad"? Do you ever hear of a shootout amongst people trying to gain control of an area in order to control the local alcohol market? Do you see groups of armed thugs running around who are funded by the sale of alcohol? You see none of these things. Because alcohol is legal. It is widespread. It is not very valuable. It is easy to get. Therefore all of that bad shit does not happen.

When something is legal and in demand, legitimate businesses who engage in legitimate practises enter into the market. When this happens, the product in question becomes widespread. When something becomes widespread and easy to get it becomes less valuable. People will not kill or rob in order to get the product in question, and more importantly the people involved in the production and manufacture of this product will not kill or rob to control the market.

Fighting the war on drugs is fruitless. Let us face the simple truth: People like to do drugs because they can make you feel good. People will always do drugs. And if people will always do drugs, there will always be other people who will try to supply them in order to make money. That will never change. No matter how harsh laws get and no matter how many police are on the streets.

Hm...and do you not think it is kind of funny that drug users are chastised for "supporting terrorism" by the U.S. government, when this same government gave Saddam money and weapons in the 1980s, even when we knew that he was using poison gas on enemy soldiers and shooting missiles at civilian targets in the Iran-Iraq war?

If only we could get politicians to understand this stuff. Instead we are stuck with politicians, who because of political necessity, have to regurgitate all of the hackneyed anti-drug arguments.

Sigh....


RandalFlagg


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #689668 - 06/20/02 06:18 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Well said...


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InvisibleFrog31337
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Registered: 06/17/02
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Loc: Midwest, US
Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #689687 - 06/20/02 06:29 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

The first time I saw the propaganda commercials I was with my father and I instantly said "There is and EASY solution to that problem ... legalization!" =)

He just laughed at me.


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Anonymous

Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #689857 - 06/20/02 08:09 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I fear where this "drug use supports terrorism" thing is going. After a while drug users and legalization advocates may be termed "enemy combatants" and be arrested, held in jail without legal counsel no evidence presented for indictment and no charges ever presented. After that, what politically disenfranchised group will be next? Where will it stop?

What many people fail to realize is that the U.S. is on a very dangerous path to a dictatorship. Read your history, how did Germany go from having the Weimar Republic to a Socialist Dictatorship? Democracy, the will of the people, trust in government to do "the right thing." Did those good citizens who allowed and voted the National Socialists to power think that these were evil men? NO. Did they think that their elected officials were going to plunge their nation into one of the most horrific dictatorships the world has ever known? NO. Did they trust their leaders, did they think they were well intentioned men, did they think that they were doing the right things at the time? YES.


"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson


"Political language...is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."
-- George Orwell


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OfflineMalachi
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Drugs certainly do support terrorism. [Re: MeetMeInEleusis]
    #691063 - 06/20/02 06:22 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

With the help of the CIA, drug prices remain inflated (we find it opportune to rush in and assassinate, plan coups, that sort of thing whenever the global drug scene shoukl be altered to amerika's tastes) so that wall street can gain access to the most ubundant source of untrackable money in the world. Testing can occur without regulation when you have no one to account to. Secret wars may be waged. Fat, disgusing white men grow rich off of drug money. These men are the shodowy controlers of our society, and this control comes at the expense of the world, whom these people terrorize. The pay of pigs, that was terrorism.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Drug Money/Terrorism propaganda [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #691290 - 06/20/02 08:06 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Wonderful post, it is both, on topic (the one started by the poster) and non-sensational.

As to the CIA thing. Why don't all of you put the question of verifiable third party confirmation to rest. It is doubtful that the CIA would not have learned a hard lesson, both from the vietnam era and the Iran-Contr affair. Surely, the proclivity of an office of the government, namely our government, would have improved it's operations enough to be able to do a little drug dealing without raising to much suspiscion?

If proof is lacking, one can always use the fundamentals of logic (sorry for the dirty word). Reason, think; does the CIA have anything to gain with funds generated by illegal drug trafficking? Would these funds, or product for that matter, be a useful tool in dealing with the types of "informants" necessary to the functioning of the CIA? I think that one could safely answer "yes" to these questions.

Back to the topic at hand. The first wave of anti-drug ads were, at best, laughable. The second wave is MUCH more creative. The one's where the teen is sitting alone in her room because her parents caught her smoking weed. I like that one, it's honest, and perhaps effective; I don't see it applying to an adult, but it is a nice piece for teenagers.



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