|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Choose your path [Re: dblaney]
#6914810 - 05/14/07 03:05 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Have you anY direct experience with Nirvana or Enlightenment?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
hummermania00
Strange Son of aBitch
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 327
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
|
|
I chose the combination because it would be good to travel to different 'monasteries", and spend several or more years at each.
As far as enlightenment is concerned, IMO if you are consciously seeking it, you will not find it, because the mind will be pre-occupied with finding it. It has been my experience that periods of enlightenment happen when not focused on a heightened state per se, but simply on expanding the conscious outward.
-------------------- You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events. When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.
|
dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: Choose your path [Re: Icelander]
#6914928 - 05/14/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Nope, haven't got any. I'm really just a beginner on the path.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
|
|
Quote:
As far as enlightenment is concerned, IMO if you are consciously seeking it, you will not find it, because the mind will be pre-occupied with finding it. It has been my experience that periods of enlightenment happen when not focused on a heightened state per se, but simply on expanding the conscious outward.
This is a pretty controversial subject since it can work in so many ways. I learned that we can adjust our consciousness to be direct and pure and without attachments conscious wishing usually has. Instead of "I want it " attitude it can be trained into "it will come" attitude. I continue to be a strong supporter of Will.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
hummermania00
Strange Son of aBitch
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 327
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
|
|
Have I read your post correctly, are we saying the same thing?
-------------------- You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events. When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
|
|
Yes, I think we're saying the same thing but I felt the need to emphasize my view because both situations are part of conscious seeking after all, even if the mind frame differs.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
hummermania00
Strange Son of aBitch
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 327
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
|
|
Quite true.
You are on to something with the WILL. It can put a person in many different states of mind.
-------------------- You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events. When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.
|
onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
Re: Choose your path [Re: Cracka_X]
#6915368 - 05/14/07 04:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Cracka_X said: we could start our own tribe!
to the jungle!
-------------------- Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
|
onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
Re: Choose your path [Re: onlynow]
#6915439 - 05/14/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I agree with the subject of will, it is important to have faith in the possibility of evolving many aspects of ourselves, regardless of the many constraints society has to offer. If I just believe everything is always going to be the same, like so many are conditioned to believe, I feel that would put me into a limited mindset that would prevent me from developing awareness. Doubt < will.
-------------------- Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
|
|
Quote:
You are on to something with the WILL. It can put a person in many different states of mind.
"Do what thou wilt Love is the law, love under will"
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
|
...choose...follow...choose...follow... path. Even to stay on path is considered a choice Mabe one of the biggest. ...choose...follow...choose...follow...
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
|
Quote:
MushroomTrip said: I was just thinking about a nomad life myself
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
|
|
Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
MushroomTrip said: I was just thinking about a nomad life myself
Oh?
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
dorkus
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
|
Re: Choose your path *DELETED* [Re: dblaney]
#6916271 - 05/14/07 07:03 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by dorkus
Reason for deletion: .
|
dorkus
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
|
Re: Choose your path *DELETED* [Re: hummermania00]
#6916473 - 05/14/07 07:28 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by dorkus
Reason for deletion: .
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
|
Re: Choose your path [Re: dorkus]
#6916589 - 05/14/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
For me enlightenment can be a term which creates confusion. I prefer expanding awareness. I'd rather not give it a definition though. Each time we try to put the abstract in words we lose meaning. The best way I describe it, but then again, it's only from my own perception, is that one just feels, knows when one gains awareness. I don't think help books are imperative. We can reach that point on our own, with out own thought, lectures for me only come to sustain what I have already discovered on my own, leaving the others that I didn't still closed. I can store them in my memory but I don't grasp them until the next shift... if that makes sense. Let your like flow, anything from it can make you become more conscious.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
grebarius
Whitebread
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 155
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
|
Re: Choose your path [Re: dorkus]
#6916637 - 05/14/07 07:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dblaney said: One thing I notice in this thread is that the word "enlightenment" is thrown around a bit without a consistent definition or understanding of what that word refers to.
As is always...with everything, but thats what makes messgae boards like these possible!
|
mushbaby
woodswalker
Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 2,645
Loc: in my own lil world
|
Re: Choose your path [Re: grebarius]
#6917375 - 05/14/07 09:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I picked the null option myself. I feel that everyone's path is different. What each person needs for enlightenment is different as well. But it sure seems like there's an awful lot of words being used to describe something that happens in the quiet. With no words.
|
dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: Choose your path [Re: dorkus]
#6918189 - 05/15/07 12:22 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dr_mandelbrot said:
Quote:
dblaney said:
Quote:
dr_mandelbrot said: You've seen to speak alot of what Nirvana is lately, and about the nature of enlightenment. Excuse me for asking, but are you talking from your own experience or by delving into other people's words about it?
Have I? I wasn't aware of that. This post's quote about Nirvana certainly was not my own.
I didn't mean any offense or anything. Just been observing your posts lately, and sometimes you seem to come of as you are speaking from an authoritarian point of view in regards to enlightenment, nirvana, emptiness as nature of reality and the likes. The thought have struck me sometimes, that you seem to take the "Master's" words for it. It is like you explain it (sounding like you actually know it from direct experience) to questioners in different threads. Almost a bit fundamentalistic.
I am terrible sorry if I am way off track here, and beg for forgiveness. Often I read too much into things.
If there is some truth in my observation, then that might close your mind more than it was a year back, and that can't be good. Or maybe it is?
To be honest I have no idea what I'm talking about. But I limit my mind all the time by preconceived notions based on the newest books I've read and such.
It is so hard to keep that beginner's mind open and be like a child.
I keep being too childish though, but that's a different story altogether. Heheeh.
Dogma comes in many forms. That is more of a sin (to myself) than wrongful speech or eating a couple of cheeseburgers and party every now and then.
Damn, now I feel I fucked this post up.
You are one of my favorite posters in this forum, I can tell you that much.
Thanks for the feedback. I certainly don't mean to be authoritarian or closed minded. I try to be open.
As far as "taking the masters words for it", I mean, I do, but to a degree. I take them as guides, not as all-knowing all-wise god-like beings. They make suggestions, and by large, when I try them out, I find them to be wholesome and conducive to peace and love in myself and others.
That's in practical matters. In philosophical matters, I do have a view of reality: an interpretation of it. But I have not built walls around it or myself (as far as I can tell). When I'm around, which I find I have less and less time for these days, I am always excited for a good discussion on my interpretation and others'.
I have had some first hand experiences. Some. Whenever possible I try to speak from my own experience, and not parrot the words of others. Sometimes though, there are states of mind that I simply have not experienced first hand, and in that case, I do tend to speak from second hand sources. But I seriously hope I don't come off as a fundamentalist. If I do, please please please point it out.
Anyways, thanks for your comments, I do appreciate them. I don't want to go into PM material here, but I hope everything is going well with you?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
hummermania00
Strange Son of aBitch
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 327
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
|
Re: Choose your path [Re: dorkus]
#6918891 - 05/15/07 07:32 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dr_mandelbrot said:
Quote:
hummermania00 said: As far as enlightenment is concerned, IMO if you are consciously seeking it, you will not find it, because the mind will be pre-occupied with finding it. It has been my experience that periods of enlightenment happen when not focused on a heightened state per se, but simply on expanding the conscious outward.
Could you please take the time to answer my two simple questions:
When you speak of enlightenment, do you mean a permanent state of mind different from the one you're now experiencing (that is, if you don't already claim or consider yourself to have "arrived")?
How do you practically expand "the conscious" outward in a sober state?
Oh well, I'll add a couple more.
I have expanded outward (very far outward, or short depending on perspective cause the universe could almost seem to be reached by the hand that wasn't there) on doses of acid and also on a shroom trip. Both of them were very different. On the acid it was like every inbreath was the creation of cosmos and although time/space was not there as it is, somehow the outer edges of the universe wasn't in a way more than an egg around my lack of body. On every outbreath there was nothing. So inhale exhale was creating destroying, birthing dying, over and over.
Oh this got long and messy now, but the question in mind was, this can't be a state an enlightened person lives in. No-one could move around in such a bodyless state, let alone speak, pee or read a book. But that is what expanding the conscious outward really means, is it not?
So how far should you expand that to be "enlightened". Should your head just be a balloon? I'm not serious of course, I'm just starting to question that the term enlightenment has anything to do with samadhi at all.
I will reply the best i can to your questions:
1.) I am not really sure that the term "enlightenment" is what i am actually experiencing. Hell, I don't even know what samadhi is. However, what I refer to enlightenment (for lack of another word) is the getting to understanding that there are other "planes" of awareness for our minds. But to actually sit down and say, "I will meditate, or trance myself, or aware myself into one of these states has not been my experience. An altered state for me seems to only happen in times of profound quiet (physical) and peace (mental). At these times I seem to experience a complete lack of awareness of all my surroundings, and a total awareness of, or understanding of, an outer realm.
2.) Since I have not done any drugs for about 25 years, i don't really know how to answer your question, except to re-iterate that it just happens as described above. At one time, (in my youth) I consumed psychedelics voraciously; LSD perhaps 1000 times, copious supplies of mushrooms and buttons; and I never experienced anything that is comparable to what I occasionally experience now.
I don't know how else to describe this. It is probably weak, perhaps this is by design. I am not sure that I would have wanted a complete and accurate description of these experiences.
As far as living in a permanent altered state, I really don't know if that is possible. I doubt it is for what I experience, but it sure would be fun to find out. Also, I am aware that one writer/professor of "enlightenment" claims to live/has lived in an altered state for several years, including sleep. I can't remember his name, or his book.
Hopefully this gives you what you were asking?
-------------------- You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events. When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.
|
|