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gilrand
wannabesomething


Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 133
Loc: Sub Arctic
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size?
#6619791 - 02/28/07 09:17 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm growing a strain that is supposed to be Tasmanian P. cubensis using popcorn as substrate and coco coir/vermiculite mix as casing. I had the space and no better knowledge to cover my growspace with about 3/4 inch of colonized substrate and on top of that about an inch or so casing mixture.
On the first flush (if you can call it a flush as it was more like picking some mushrooms everyday for a week, and still am) I have collected about 13 grams of dry mushrooms, propably a hundred or so. I have to pick ready ones up multiple times of day and still at night some tend to drop their spores all around.
BUT when comparing the mushrooms size to some posted on this board my mushrooms seem to stay very small biggest ones being maybe 3 to 4 inches tall with caps up to 1-1½ inch.
I mist the pinbox and have water to humiditify it from the bottom and have small holes for air circulation and in addition I take the lid off for some time to let the air change well. I let them have light for about 4 hours a day.
I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on my topic question and maybe to what could be wrong with my small mushroom field?
I was thinking of trying dunking one of my cases to try if casing moisture level was crooked as the casings have shrunken even tho I've misted them..?
Thanks alot for your time,
Gilrand
-------------------- //Gilrand
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: gilrand]
#6619799 - 02/28/07 09:21 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Alot of other things play a factor as well in the size.. Temperature, Humidity, h20, c02 levels.. etc..
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: LordSenate]
#6619847 - 02/28/07 09:45 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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yes, substrate absolutely correlates to size. deeper substrate means more mycelial "mass" and that can support bigger mushrooms. you should shoot for at least 1.5-2 inches. most use more like 4 (with bulk substrates involved)
secondly is moisture. mushrooms are around 90% water. if you expect big mushrooms you need lots of water. substrate thickness and type comes into play again here - plain popcorn is one of the worst things you could have chosen. any plain grain is not exactly great in that category, they simply don't hold a lot of moisture. that's why spawning to bulk substrate works so well. things like poo, coir, straw, etc, hold tons of water in comparison to the grains, and you can use a lot of them. and yes, of course dunking, wherever it can be applied, will help 
casing layers can provide additional moisture, so they do play a role as well - well maintained casing can feed water to the substrate, and help to an extent.
another function of size is the "density" of your pinset. more pins means there's less resources to go around. they share a finite amount of water, energy, and nutrients. more pins = smaller mushrooms. simple enough concept there - but bear in mind more pins with smaller mushrooms still usually yields bigger than fewer large mushrooms, so its still a good idea to shoot for good pinsets. 
environmental factors don't play all that big of a role actually, at least not directly. yes they're important in the big picture for healthy crops, but don't have so much to do directly with the size of the mushrooms. low humidity or excessive temps would mean drying - but that's a moisture issue, already mentioned. temperature in normal ranges has nothing to do with it. co2 levels would mean less of a pinset (which ironically, could mean bigger mushrooms), and sometimes tall stringy mushrooms with small caps, but it takes some serious CO2 problems to cause that (and usually with that comes contamination problems first.)
in your case, the reason your mushrooms are small, plain and simple, is because you used 3/4 inch of popcorn as a substrate.
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Kamin


Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 449
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: creamcorn]
#6619854 - 02/28/07 09:48 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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well said.
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Premedman1
Assistant to the insistent


Registered: 12/21/05
Posts: 2,376
Loc: South of Sanity
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Re: Does substrate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: LordSenate]
#6619855 - 02/28/07 09:48 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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A 3/4" substrate depth is pretty shallow. Substrate depth does correlate with fruitbody size. Deeper substrates can support larger fruits. My Tasmanians were smaller than most, even in a 4" monotub. Your casing layer was also way too deep for such a shallow sub. Congratulations on a successful grow.
-------------------- Build a man a fire, he is warm for the night. Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.
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gilrand
wannabesomething


Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 133
Loc: Sub Arctic
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: gilrand]
#6620009 - 02/28/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks alot everyone for answering so swiftly. I'm planning on next growing and this certainly shed light on the most pressing issues and now I know how and what to do diffrent next time.
Thanks!
//Gilrand
-------------------- //Gilrand
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 21 days
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Re: Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: gilrand]
#6620024 - 02/28/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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In addition, popcorn is a poor spawn choice, but an even worse substrate choice. At the very least, spawn the popcorn into manure or coir, then when that colonizes, case. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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gilrand
wannabesomething


Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 133
Loc: Sub Arctic
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6620084 - 02/28/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm thinking of using BROWN RICE in my next grow instead of now used POPCORN, how's that?
Thanks,
//Gilrand
-------------------- //Gilrand
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Spire
Mycophagous

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 314
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: gilrand]
#6620091 - 02/28/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wal-Mart sells very good 4lb. bags of WBS for 97 cents. Thats 4 POUNDS.
I believe after a small amount of Verm. is added to the seed, that 4lb. can fill up like 6-8 Quart Jars.
-------------------- Old Member, New Name. One makes "good luck". With the ability to recognize a good opportunity. Then, to exploit it. -SixTango/Agar
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zathan
Buttstuff

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 902
Loc: So long stinktown
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: gilrand]
#6894048 - 05/09/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
gilrand said: I'm thinking of using BROWN RICE in my next grow instead of now used POPCORN, how's that?
Thanks,
//Gilrand
Do-able, but not ideal. Rice gets sticky after soaking/PC'ing, an all around hassle when there are better choices that are much cheaper.
Use WBS or Rye.
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AroundtheSon
Learning to See



Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 4,427
Loc: Midwest.
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Re: Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: Spire]
#6894214 - 05/09/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spire said: Wal-Mart sells very good 4lb. bags of WBS for 97 cents. Thats 4 POUNDS.
I believe after a small amount of Verm. is added to the seed, that 4lb. can fill up like 6-8 Quart Jars.
That is accurate, though here they are 1.22 a piece. Lucky bastard
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strangladesh
masterOFpuppets



Registered: 10/17/05
Posts: 815
Loc: Right Here!
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Re: Does substate/casing thickness correlate with mushroom size? [Re: AroundtheSon]
#6894591 - 05/09/07 05:47 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I get the 40lbs bag for $10
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