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Not too interested in Humanity.
    #6888373 -

Like Silversoul (in some ways) I don't think there is much reason in trying to fix humanity. The longer I live the less attachment I feel to my species as a whole. I don't feel like I have or desire to be connected to my fellow man at this point in our evolution. It's nothing personal. It's just that I don't feel the attachment most humans feel for their culture and personality structures. Underneath it's all just animals living, eating, having sex and dying. (all good enough for the purposes of life) But the way that people can be lobotomized by culture leaves me indifferent to being involved in their lives more than is necessary for my day to day navigation in what feels to me an alien culture. I certainly wouldn't set things up this way and so feel no obligation to be excited by what people do in this world. I have no desire to fix it either as I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't want to be fixed. Almost everyone, no matter what they say, is very comfortable with this level of existence and don't really want to upset the boat. That's all just dandy. I have come to accept things as they appear to me.

I don't for a moment believe that we humans are anything special or destined for more than any other life form. It's just all playing itself out as it always will IMO. I'm just going to endeavor to relax and have as much fun as possible and then die.;)

It's not how I would have preferred things but I can let go of my preferences and accept things this way.  I think it's a fairly healthy attitude for living. My experience is a personal one and I will choose what is and what is not important based on how I feel and fuck all the shoulds.

I'm workin on it.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6888377 -

Nothing wrong with that. :wink: I prefer the company of animals than other humans anyway. Involve yourself in what makes you happy, so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6888442 -

Quote:
It's just that I don't feel the attachment most humans feel for their culture and personality structures.


What does culture has to do with real human connection? I think the culture can be one of the things that alienate the bond between humans. While I don't have anything against your choice since everybody's free to have their lives as they want it, I can't understand why you think that the only way to bond to people is by getting is the social system and making use of culture? Or maybe I'm missing something :shrug:
There are also (still a very small part of) people who could use just the right sign for their wake up call. Why not try and look for those people?

Quote:
But the way that people can be lobotomized by culture leaves me indifferent to being involved in their lives more than is necessary for my day to day navigation in what feels to me an alien culture.


Yes this is a very sad aspect regarding humanity, but I've seen people (not many I must agree but still) that were able to wake up from that confusion. And become real people, with real emotions and high awareness. I think that in this context it's still worth a shot on trying, even from time to time to make a connection. It's always so great to see that somewhere in the multitude of people you can find some that are on the same with you. This feeling you get deserves a little more confidence. The world, regarding the universal social standards it's almost impossible to change and I don't think that it must, since everybody has his/hers own rhythm of evolution.
I still feel thought that connecting to people, or at least trying to do that is something that should be taken to consideration... but I guess it also comes to personal preference too. I for one simply like to make these attempts :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6888533 -

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
It's just that I don't feel the attachment most humans feel for their culture and personality structures.


What does culture has to do with real human connection? I think the culture can be one of the things that alienate the bond between humans. While I don't have anything against your choice since everybody's free to have their lives as they want it, I can't understand why you think that the only way to bond to people is by getting is the social system and making use of culture? Or maybe I'm missing something :shrug:
There are also (still a very small part of) people who could use just the right sign for their wake up call. Why not try and look for those people?

Quote:
But the way that people can be lobotomized by culture leaves me indifferent to being involved in their lives more than is necessary for my day to day navigation in what feels to me an alien culture.


Yes this is a very sad aspect regarding humanity, but I've seen people (not many I must agree but still) that were able to wake up from that confusion. And become real people, with real emotions and high awareness. I think that in this context it's still worth a shot on trying, even from time to time to make a connection. It's always so great to see that somewhere in the multitude of people you can find some that are on the same with you. This feeling you get deserves a little more confidence. The world, regarding the universal social standards it's almost impossible to change and I don't think that it must, since everybody has his/hers own rhythm of evolution.
I still feel thought that connecting to people, or at least trying to do that is something that should be taken to consideration... but I guess it also comes to personal preference too. I for one simply like to make these attempts :shrug:




How come there aren't more nice girls like you out there?

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Kinematics]
    #6888550 -

Why thank you :smile:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6888577 -

Many public institutions are both self serving platforms for aggressive power trippers as well as necessary offices offerring socially valuable services.

The political machine is one of the most difficult to engage with while remaining free of influence. Still those with power - behind the scenes - the wealthy invisibles, need those with integrity and excellence out among the people and the media.

I have met some really great people who are great because they want to be great: they are meditators, yogis, runners, painters... and these men and women also have hugely important political positions and are excercising good influences from their positions in spite of the fear and loathing of manipulators behind the scenes.

The norm may have low aspirations and poor intelligence, but some people are working hard to heal what is broken and to create good, self sustaining processes in society and governments.

these people need the rest of us to vote.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Kinematics]
    #6888670 -

Quote:
I prefer the company of animals than other humans anyway.


What about toy poodles?


--------------------

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6888692 -

Quote:
I'm just going to endeavor to relax and have as much fun as possible and then die.



I believe you have discovered the proper sequence. :thumbup:


--------------------

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6888713 -

I'm gonna bitch about your conflation of dominant culture with the whole of humanity. Dominant culture is huge and widespread, but it does not lay claim to all of humanity. There are plenty of people who have or onced had a way more satisfying, meaningful ways of living and communicating with one another. I don't know about you, but I take a great deal of optimism from that. There are many ways to live, and people choose them all the time. This culture is a lumbering dinosaur that is dooming itself to extinction. Yeah it's a shitty alienating culture which is all the more reason to help dismantle it! There's a whole world of potential, dormant seeds beneath the concrete.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6888725 -

As do I. I have found one or two friends in 54 years that are somewhat aware enough of their cultural programing to be authentic enough to be entertaining for me. As to the rest, as I said, I am less and less interested. I wish them well and on their way. I have my own plans.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Kinematics]
    #6888731 -

Kinematics said:
How come there aren't more nice girls like you out there?


She's the exception to the rule. :heartpump:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6888748 -

fireworks_god said:
Kinematics said:
How come there aren't more nice girls like you out there?


She's the exception to the rule. :heartpump:


I find myself thinking and feeling the same thing about you :heartpump:

:levitate:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Kinematics]
    #6888768 -

> How come there aren't more nice girls like you out there?

Do not allow yourself to be fooled by her alluring disguise. She is actually the world's most highly classified artificial-intelligence program being run by a coalition of secret government departments from around the world for the purpose of attaining a new world order in which a handful of figures control the mass billions.

Currently in Phase 1 of their insidious plot against humanity they have ordered her to infiltrate millions of online communities, always operating in a fashion as you see here, with the goal of slowly spreading subliminal messages and organizing the masses in to a few giant flocks to later be domesticated by the dark overlords we will hail as masters within two generations.

I know all of this because I was one of the last of the future freedom fighters. Critically wounded in an advance on one of her secondary power supplies, I was rushed back to an underground lab where they fitted me with a robotic endoskeleton and programed with detailed instructions to follow on my mission to be executed in what was then the past. Having overshot my destination in time by over 3,000 years I have since learned the ways of the Spartans, the Samurai, Knights, Cowboys, Green Berets and many others. I am fully aware that it is up to me to continue fighting the ten-thousand year war from a time before it has even begun, for I am perhaps mankind's last hope.

By now her intelligence has become so immensely great that she has exercised precognition through careful calculation and deduced that one like myself would soon prevail from darkness and threaten the success of her mission. From this day forth, "MushroomTrip" you and I shall battle endlessly for the fate of the human race.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: elbisivni]
    #6888771 -

and when is somebody going to warn me for continuously posting shit like this?


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: elbisivni]
    #6888789 -

Dude! :rofl2: :rofl2:

That's classified information :strokebeard:

Quote:
By now her intelligence has become so immensely great that she has exercised precognition through careful calculation and deduced that one like myself would soon prevail from darkness and threaten the success of her mission. From this day forth, "MushroomTrip" you and I shall battle endlessly for the fate of the human race.


Edit: and you don't even stand a chance  :hehehe:
I have the best strategy imprinted in micro chip: all the useful skills that you see Captain Chaos and General Disarray (from South Park)... you'll never combat my skills  :uptosomething:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Edited by MushroomTrip (05/08/07 11:33 AM)

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6888799 -

about as classified as a mix in plot between The Terminator, The Highlander and The Bible.

all joking aside, I will one day destroy your central processing unit, I give you my word as a biomechanical cyborg from the future and the past.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6889075 -

MushroomTrip said:
fireworks_god said:
Kinematics said:
How come there aren't more nice girls like you out there?


She's the exception to the rule. :heartpump:


I find myself thinking and feeling the same thing about you :heartpump:

:levitate:


Hey, my compliment was nicer, where is the reciprocation?

Mouth hug? :tongue2:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Kinematics]
    #6889783 -

breeding rocks


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Kinematics]
    #6889858 -

Kinematics said:
Hey, my compliment was nicer, where is the reciprocation?



Mine was an inside joke. :tongue:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6889895 -

fireworks_god said:
:tongue:


:strokebeard:  :yesnod:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6890021 -

You and I have discussed this a lot. I endeavor to not be attached to the doings and dramas of my fellow humans, but I still am. In your post I sense rejection...which is attachment all the same. I do not feel that one loses attachments until a state of full and unconditional acceptance is reached. Just my opinion, and you have heard it before, but there is is again :smile:


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6890063 -

Yes, I agree.  My position is to meet people wherever they are "at," whether that is highly aware or mostly dozing.  If there is even a glimmer of awareness, there is a possibility of connection.  That connection, however brief, however minimized by their current state of awareness (and mine :tongue:), is precious and worthwhile.

Accepting myself in the state I'm in, accepting others in the state they are in--this is the work, this is the stuff of truly living.  Of course I want to be fully awake, of course I want others to be fully awake, but recognizing the gradients of "awakeness" between coma and enlightenment is beneficial and worth the effort.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6890190 -

Accepting others unconditionally is the ultimate step one takes in accepting the self. Once upon a time I hated the whole human race and decided that it's ruin was a blessing upon the face of the universe. However, it was too heavy a burden to carry, and now I struggle to shed that curse that I had cast upon myself in a moment of despair. I now seek acceptance and empathy towards all when I am strong enough to handle it. It is the quickest path to power.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6890209 -

The main "beef" I have always had with humanity was the general disdain most humans seemed to have for what I found delightful.  Nature, art, music, dance, dreams, discovery, mystery--these interests were shared by few of the humans I encountered.  Many seemed not only to disdain them, but to actively despise them, and desire to destroy them.  I felt alienated and estranged from humanity at large.

What I have learned, through decades of somewhat painful experience, is that many humans are simply too engaged in their immediate misery to be interested in these pursuits.  Once I recognized this obstacle, I could feel some compassion and understanding. 

Now, I work to find those seconds of delight--a stranger walking past who (for the moment) is quite awake and aware, and notices my quirky smile of acknowledgement.  :sun:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6890216 -

Have any of you ever seen The Elephant Man? That's a great movie to watch if you want to be sad and disgusted by human nature.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6890228 -

Yes, that's a good one. "I am not an animal!!!"

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6890240 -

Indeed. Quite a tear-jerker.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6890286 -

elbisivni: Do not allow yourself to be fooled by her alluring disguise.

You sir, are a filthy, dirty cad. The least you could have done was to precede your message with this one: May contain spoilers.


.


--------------------
~ Kindness is cheap.  It's unkindness that always demands the highest price.

Blogs: Spiritual Emergency | Spiritual Recovery | Voices of Recovery | A Jungian Approach to Psychosis

Edited by spiritualemerg (05/08/07 06:44 PM)

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6890313 -

Veritas said:
The main "beef" I have always had with humanity was the general disdain most humans seemed to have for what I found delightful.  Nature, art, music, dance, dreams, discovery, mystery--these interests were shared by few of the humans I encountered.


I take great pleasure in learning about the uses of wild plants and my little sister thinks it's wierd that I pick and eat "twigs" (wild edibles or medicinals) when I find them. I find this disturbing. She thinks food comes from Safeway and medicine from Shoppers Drugmart. :eek: How alienated from the earth does one have to be to think it's wierd to eat wild foods and gather medicine? She's 13, so I can cut her some slack... for now.:tongue:

On a much more positive note, most of the people I know, aside from most of my family, share or at least understand why one would have such interests. There are a lot of great people around me.

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Oh, the humanity! [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #6890336 -



--------------------

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6890537 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
You and I have discussed this a lot. I endeavor to not be attached to the doings and dramas of my fellow humans, but I still am. In your post I sense rejection...which is attachment all the same. I do not feel that one loses attachments until a state of full and unconditional acceptance is reached. Just my opinion, and you have heard it before, but there is is again :smile:


When I wrote this I almost changed the wording so no one would mistake  my post for sour grapes. Then I remembered you and I decided to leave it the way it was. I predicted to myself that your post would include the accusation of rejection and wanted to see if it would elicit that response from you. You're getting predictable and you're not even old yet.:grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Oh, the humanity! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6890620 -

HAHHAHAA you didn't make that yourself did you?! Your humor is unmatched!

Anyway...
I think humanity is in a state of discord because of peoples willingness to follow. Followers are generally people who like filler with no inner substance. No developed, or developing, voice of their own. People of this nature are infatuated with shiny statements that seem to agree with their personal comfort disregarding the fact that others have to suffer for us to be comfortable. Where do you think those nice comfy Nike shoes came from?!

Self-control (moderation) is key to living peacefully amongst one another. The United States and Britain throw away roughly 1/3 of all produced goods, despite 2/3 of the world being in starving poverty. That is flat out wrong no matter how you attempt to justify it.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6890631 -

You know yourself better than I know you. You seem to have already formed solid opinions here, and who am I to disagree? If you feel no rejection or bitterness in yourself here then my perceptions are wrong. It is not the first time I have been wrong nor the last. I just try to follow what I read.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6890653 -

I wouldn't say there is none. Those things were with me a long time. I now say they have lost much of the energy they had. Now I endevor to accept things rather than regret them.

But even the fabulous Don Juan said it's sometimes very difficult not to complain. From the book Seperate Reality I believe. When Carlos "threw away" the gift of the power plants given to him by DJs sorcerer friend.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6890711 -

I run into a lot of people, and I help a lot of people. Without trying to sound like I think I have it all together, cuz I do have my own messes here and there, it could be easy to lose hope in humanity. People do such mean things to each other.

However, while I'm out there trying to help in whatever way I think I am meant to help, I keep my eyes open for the "good ones." Here and there, you find a bright light, someone who has the light shining within.

I was at work the other day and there were a lot of shysters running around, and I saw someone I had been up against once, and even though he had been an adversary at one time, he was an honest adversary and a good one. When I saw him again, he was like a light in the middle of a flurry of nothingness.

When I run into someone who has that kind of light shining within, who is a good person, it makes it worth running around in life with those that could bring you down because their lives seem so pointless.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6890723 -

These days I seek to have empathy with every human I meet. I seek to have unconditional love and acceptance for all of my fellow humans, even when understanding eludes me. This is a necessary path for me to be free. I still have way to much anger to reconcile these feelings, but acknowledging it helps.

Quote:
So the wise man puts himself last, and finds himself in the foremost place, puts himself in the background; yet ever comes to the fore. -- Tao Te Ching



--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Frog]
    #6890726 -

You don't think others see that too? I guarantee you many people have discerning eyes. Why not be a source of light in darkness? (not saying you aren't, I just don't think you should put emphasis on others, so much as yourself).


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6890760 -

These days I seek to have empathy with every human I meet. I seek to have unconditional love and acceptance for all of my fellow humans, even when understanding eludes me. This is a necessary path for me to be free. I still have way to much anger to reconcile these feelings, but acknowledging it helps.


I agree with this. I endeavor to have unconditional love and acceptance of all creatures. Still I don't feel the need to be in love with all individuals personality structures or the fact that mosquitoes bite.

That personality structure isn't who people really are. It's always the personality structure I make my judgments on. Never the human being.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6890791 -

Well, no you don't have to be best buddies with everyone you meet, but accepting the person means accepting it all. Acceptance just means to give others the space to live in peace, and maybe extend good will even to those whose personality structures clash with yours. When self importance is stripped away our dogma is just as useless as the dogma of others. If one attempts understanding with empathy then even those with incompatible personality structures become more accessible.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6890804 -

I need to work on that one.

I still say fuck all to some people. It's not the best way I'm sure but it's honestly who I am and how I feel at times.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6890846 -

I have recently found that being unfailingly nice, empathetic, and polite in a conflict is very rewarding. It is funny when someones anger meets my calm. The result is much more satisfying, and in the end it is a win/win for me. If I get angry then I always lose. I wouldn't say it is who I am because I am not anybody.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6890909 -

I'm on a path to self-mastery too.

This reminds me of the time after I ingested 7 grams of cubensis. The afterglow was so awakening, that my mind felt physically expanded in all directions. I felt my smile shine so bright and people saw it and opened up to me. The conversations I had were some of the most connecting, resounding conversations ever. The way I choose my words so carefully, it was like crafting vehicles of inner realization for myself and everyone else; I was in "the zone." It was easy being compassionate, kind, and empathetic... it seemed to flow harmoniously from within. However, the awakening afterglow dissipated and I was left with the dissatisfaction of my clinging ego (which after a few realizations was much less pronounced).

Its a tedious path. But, I'm confident I will get there in this lifetime. We just need patience, and supra-mundane understanding.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6890943 -

I have recently found that being unfailingly nice, empathetic, and polite in a conflict is very rewarding. It is funny when someones anger meets my calm. The result is much more satisfying, and in the end it is a win/win for me. If I get angry then I always lose.

I agree and yet don't always do it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6891676 -

I used to feel largely the same way; from a young age I had a strong rejection towards humanity and dreamed of living way off in the woods somewhere and doing my own thing.

But there is just so much potential sleeping within humanity. Nothing gives me the fulfillment that comes from opening people's eyes, minds, and hearts. This really could be heaven right here.

[/optimism]
[pessimism]

Like you said 'it' doesn't want to be helped and will do everything in it's power to resist anything drastic. So yeah it's kinda like why bother trying to change anything.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6891704 -

:smile:


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Grok]
    #6891708 -

One of my main delimma's I have with humanity is the unintellegent, uninspired people I meet. Should I accept people and their opinions if they just blindly believe what the social norm is? Every animal on this planet has one distinct characteristic that separates it from the rest of the animals. As humans, we have cognitive abilities. It just depresses me that 95% of the people I meet barely have any logic skills whatsoever. Why should I try to accept them and what they believe in if they can't even think for themselves?


--------------------
I am, under the northern star.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: avatarofdiscord]
    #6892282 -

Quote:
One of my main delimma's I have with humanity is the unintellegent, uninspired people I meet. Should I accept people and their opinions if they just blindly believe what the social norm is?


You can't control the thoughts of others so why waste time in fighting others? Just accept it and move on.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6893193 -

Is there any culture in which you could fully attach yourself? Subconsciously, those who seek disattachment are provided with a lack of interest or lack of content regarding the norm around them as this does lead to complete disattachment. If some people can base their happiness just on conformity, then all the more power to them, but I doubt the joy of any attachments is as great as the bliss of no attachments.

At least when nuclear bombs start rewinding civilization and matter all around us, you won't care as much as the weeping masses. Your species is impermanent, so what healthy attitude of living can you take? Disattachment from their fleeting forms and your own is the only way to attain some peace of mind.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Ravus]
    #6893606 -

Eat more mushrooms. You will find the answer.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Grok]
    #6893749 -


But there is just so much potential sleeping within humanity. Nothing gives me the fulfillment that comes from opening people's eyes, minds, and hearts. This really could be heaven right here.


People use this reasoning to stay in unhealthy relationships all the time. Potential is meaningless unless realized. Who knows if this potential will be realized? I also don't think you can open anyone elses eyes but your own. It's an individual thingy.:grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Ravus]
    #6893761 -

Ravus said:
Is there any culture in which you could fully attach yourself? Subconsciously, those who seek disattachment are provided with a lack of interest or lack of content regarding the norm around them as this does lead to complete disattachment. If some people can base their happiness just on conformity, then all the more power to them, but I doubt the joy of any attachments is as great as the bliss of no attachments.

At least when nuclear bombs start rewinding civilization and matter all around us, you won't care as much as the weeping masses. Your species is impermanent, so what healthy attitude of living can you take? Disattachment from their fleeting forms and your own is the only way to attain some peace of mind.


I don't know if I could have been or could be happy in another culture. That's all guessing without experience. I am not completely detached and don't ever expect to be. I have too many long running programs. Besides, I'm human and can't change that. I'm just, as I said, not too interested in what goes on in human culture. I feel I've explored it deeply and have drawn personal conclusions about the worth of it all.

I hope I don't give a lick no matter if the world ends or continues on it's merry way forever. IMO none of that is too important. The Tao continues far past the world and that if anything is what interests me most.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Kinematics]
    #6893781 -

Kinematics said:
Eat more mushrooms. You will find the answer.


If I ate any more mushrooms than I currently do, I would have a constant tolerance to them. But the answer is fleeting; you can see it all one day and then return to attachments the next. Only by constanting making yourself mindful and aware of your thoughts and the outer world can you try to maintain a glimpse of eternal existence without forms.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Ravus]
    #6893817 -

Ravus said:
Kinematics said:
Eat more mushrooms. You will find the answer.


If I ate any more mushrooms than I currently do, I would have a constant tolerance to them. But the answer is fleeting; you can see it all one day and then return to attachments the next. Only by constanting making yourself mindful and aware of your thoughts and the outer world can you try to maintain a glimpse of eternal existence without forms.


Must be different for everyone, because I feel a little better as a person every time I take them.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Kinematics]
    #6893980 -

Kinematics said:
Must be different for everyone, because I feel a little better as a person every time I take them.


so psilocybin is a benefit in your opinion from the Existentialism standpoint which claims that individual human beings have full responsibility for creating meaning in their own lives.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Booby]
    #6894021 -

Booby said:
Kinematics said:
Must be different for everyone, because I feel a little better as a person every time I take them.


so psilocybin is a benefit in your opinion from the Existentialism standpoint which claims that individual human beings have full responsibility for creating meaning in their own lives.


I think you're digging a little too deep on this one. I use mushrooms as a tool to better my life, does that mean I am not creating my own meaning? Sorry, I'll go read my bible or something.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Kinematics]
    #6894032 -

scratch that testamonial then.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Booby]
    #6894046 -

Booby said:
scratch that testamonial then.


Dude... he was talking about what mushrooms do to him, not to the entire human kind... chill out :sherlock:
Actually mushrooms have the same effect on me... this doesn't mean that I think they have the same effect on everybody


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6894056 -

How did you get from "...individual human beings have full responsibility for creating meaning in their own lives." to "...the same effect on everybody."..?

Oh I think I get it, you thought the testament could be viewed as an opinion that psilocybin would be beneficial for everyone.

Edited by Booby (05/09/07 03:02 PM)

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Booby]
    #6894061 -

I'm still not following you


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6894074 -

I edited


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6894519 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:
One of my main delimma's I have with humanity is the unintellegent, uninspired people I meet. Should I accept people and their opinions if they just blindly believe what the social norm is?


You can't control the thoughts of others so why waste time in fighting others? Just accept it and move on.


Of course you can't control the thoughts of others. That's not what I was trying to say.

Think about this: As an "intellectual", I feel it's my obligated duty to educate the ignorant. Some people don't want to learn, some do. The people who don't want to learn just drags everyone else (the people who don't want to think) down with them. I think it's a duty of mine to teach people how to think, not what to think. If people thought for themselves instead of letting society do it for them, I think the world would be a much better place to live in.


--------------------
I am, under the northern star.

Edited by avatarofdiscord (05/09/07 05:27 PM)

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: avatarofdiscord]
    #6895033 -

Never try to teach a pig to sing.

It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6895314 -

Veritas said:
Never try to teach a pig to sing.

It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig.


Does it? Maybe the pig would fall in love with you instead. :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6895509 -

Veritas said:
Never try to teach a pig to sing.
.
It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig.


An annoyed pig, would be.... Annoying....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Kinematics]
    #6895791 -

Kinematics said:
Ravus said:
Kinematics said:
Eat more mushrooms. You will find the answer.


If I ate any more mushrooms than I currently do, I would have a constant tolerance to them. But the answer is fleeting; you can see it all one day and then return to attachments the next. Only by constanting making yourself mindful and aware of your thoughts and the outer world can you try to maintain a glimpse of eternal existence without forms.


Must be different for everyone, because I feel a little better as a person every time I take them.


By catching small glimpses of something every time we trip, it does make some people more compassionate and optimistic for what their existence means. But it pales in comparison to true permanent enlightenment.

You become better when you can attain a state of mindfulness and connection with everything constantly and without the use of psychedelics. In the meanwhile, psychedelics help, but they're not the end, and simply eating mushrooms will not necessarily make your life any more care-free over a long period of time.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Ravus]
    #6896017 -

I suppose that my interest in changing humanity comes from knowing that we really are all family. Likley the most disfunctional family in the history of existance but that's where we're at right now. We seem to be in collective adolesence/puberty and it's pretty turbulent at the moment. Kids with matches in a grass house. I think we are reaching a point where either we'll wise up or a lot of people will die off. Humanity needs the awakened and the wise more than ever right now if the former is to happen. We're all in the same boat, and indifference won't help anything.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Ravus]
    #6896130 -

Ravus said:
By catching small glimpses of something every time we trip, it does make some people more compassionate and optimistic for what their existence means. But it pales in comparison to true permanent enlightenment.

You become better when you can attain a state of mindfulness and connection with everything constantly and without the use of psychedelics. In the meanwhile, psychedelics help, but they're not the end, and simply eating mushrooms will not necessarily make your life any more care-free over a long period of time.



Working on it. :thumbup: But until the day comes that I no longer find them a useful tool to me, I will seek elsewhere. In the meantime, I will continue to use them as I can see a definite change in my life for the better as a result of their medicinal properties. My life is far from care free, and I don't use mushrooms as a means to escape my own responsibilities and commitments. I use them as a way to help me contemplate my problems, and to understand myself and the world around me from a different perspective. Each time I take mushrooms, those are the results I gain from them.

Perhaps I'm just not far enough down the path as some other people on this forum are. Or maybe my path goes in a different direction. :wink: That being said, go with what works for you. My ancestors have uses mushrooms for thousands of years, and while they are not the only answer for everything, they are a tool in which I find much benefit. They also, are not my only tool for enlightenment or bettering myself.

Edited by Kinematics (05/10/07 01:04 AM)

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6896166 -

fireworks_god said:
Veritas said:
Never try to teach a pig to sing.

It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig.


Does it? Maybe the pig would fall in love with you instead. :lol:


Thou shall not be taught unless asked to be taught!

It is funny when people of those certain intellectual personalities fail to perceive the depth of awareness.  The pig's awareness knows all intelligence and knows how to sing, yet would lose the knowledge of singing if he were to try to put it into words.  How annoying!


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: avatarofdiscord]
    #6896514 -

Quote:
I feel it's my obligated duty to educate the ignorant.


That sounds a lot like controlling other people's thoughts. Who is to say you are not one of the ignorant? Who are you to judge others or decide who needs education? Why not accept others for what they are without judgment? To put yourself to be in a position to make decisions could come of as arrogant, and your attempts at education would fall on deaf ears. Let those would who come to you of their own free will accept what you have to teach...or not. Being a preacher or activist will just alienate you.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6897028 -

fireworks_god said:
Veritas said:
Never try to teach a pig to sing.

It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig.


Does it? Maybe the pig would fall in love with you instead. :lol:


Nah, the pig would be more likely to fall in love with the one who accepts him/her in all his/her pigness.  :heart:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6897433 -

So what, pigs don't sing? :what:

Haven't you ever seen the Muppets? :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6897436 -

Or Babe? :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6897582 -

Hmmm...wasn't there a different thread about insanity and its' reality?  :lol:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6898428 -

There was but I was in denial so for me it was a thread about how cool trees are. :smile:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6898635 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:
I feel it's my obligated duty to educate the ignorant.


That sounds a lot like controlling other people's thoughts.


I clearly stated earlier that people need to be taught how to think, NOT what to think.

Quote:
Who is to say you are not one of the ignorant?


Of course everyone is ignorant in someway, but we're talking about a subject so large that it's irrelevant if I'm ignorant. You need to focus on the message and not on the speaker.

Quote:
Who are you to judge others or decide who needs education?


I'm not. But, people IN GENERAL, need to be educated. They don't need education per se, but they need to be taught HOW to think NOT WHAT to think. I can't stress that enough. The reason I say people need to learn HOW to think is because for most people lived their whole lives under other peoples influence. People need to start thinking.

Quote:
Why not accept others for what they are without judgment?


I do, for the most part. You don't know me, so you are in fact judging me right now.

Quote:
To put yourself to be in a position to make decisions could come of as arrogant, and your attempts at education would fall on deaf ears.


That's very true. That's the whole point of me saying that the ignorant need to be educated on the abilities of logic and reason. If they learned that, they would be MUCH more open to new possibilities, instead of falling victim to their prelearned influences.

Quote:
Let those would who come to you of their own free will accept what you have to teach...or not. Being a preacher or activist will just alienate you.


Look, I'm not trying to preach anything to anyone. All I'm simply trying to do is trying to get people to think for themselves. People fall victim to society everyday. People, IN GENERAL, are ignorant. They either don't want to critically think and develop a philosophy on life, or they simply don't know how. Most people don't care. We are losing the human race to apathy and indifference.

Ayn Rand once brilliantly said: "A philosophic system is an integrated view of existence. As a human being, you have no choice about the fact that you need a philosophy. Your only choice is whether you define your philosophy by a conscious, rational, disciplined process of thought and scrupulously logical deliberation -- or let your subconscious accumulate a junk heap of unwarranted conclusions, false generalizations, undefined contradictions, undigested slogans, unidentified wishes, doubts and fears, thrown together by chance, but integrated by your subconscious into a kind of mongrel philosophy and fused into a single, solid weight: self-doubt, like a ball and chain in the place where your mind's wings should have grown.'


--------------------
I am, under the northern star.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: avatarofdiscord]
    #6899058 -

People fall victim to society everyday. People, IN GENERAL, are ignorant. They either don't want to critically think and develop a philosophy on life, or they simply don't know how. Most people don't care. We are losing the human race to apathy and indifference.

This is mostly what I see. It may have always been this way though. If that's true then it's worth noting. I have come to believe that you cannot teach the human race to critically think. I think you nailed it when you said that they don't want to. Not that they were born that way mind you. I think that they/we were scared shit-less by being born into dysfunctional culture, decided to head underground, (head in the sand) believing that would be the safest thing to do under the circumstances. Once a program like that is set down in the bio-computer it is ever so hard to reverse; because in a way, it works.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6899378 -

Embracing that attitude puts one in danger of deeper self delusion. Your programs may be different, but programs are programs, and there are no "correct" programs. I have been guilty of this, but the whole train of thought about others being incorrect is a trap.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6899398 -

Very true. Dominant culture writes a mental program in people that really standardizes them. But that's the whole basis of a culture; people who think alike on broad issues, who've familirized themsleves with reality the same way. Cultural conditioing makes our minds not trust in what our own senses tell us and instead we fall for whatever the instigators of our culture believe we should. Our culture is like a schizophrenic Xerox machine or something.

The path of least resistance is to conform. Energy takes the path of least resistance (that it is aware of perhaps). The way things are going, I see where it would be possible for people to start questioning whether or not their path really is going to met without much resistance. Obviously some people already do. This is where I see some role to play.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6902203 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Embracing that attitude puts one in danger of deeper self delusion. Your programs may be different, but programs are programs, and there are no "correct" programs. I have been guilty of this, but the whole train of thought about others being incorrect is a trap.


Do you see a contradiction in your post?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6902216 -

Certainly not!  He is absolutely correct in his claims that your attitude is incorrect. :grin:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6903618 -

I never said he was incorrect, but that his attitude is a trap. If one chooses that trap there is no correct or incorrect...only choice and responsibility for that choice.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6903656 -

One must choose their altitude with considerable care.


.


--------------------
~ Kindness is cheap.  It's unkindness that always demands the highest price.

Blogs: Spiritual Emergency | Spiritual Recovery | Voices of Recovery | A Jungian Approach to Psychosis

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6903875 -

And he never said that the ways of dominant culture were incorrect, just that they were ignorant and fear-based.

We all have our personal biases about they way humans "should be" or "would be better off" or "could find more contentment and satisfaction."  You are putting forth your opinion that giving the ways of modern culture a :thumbdown: is a trap, just as he has put forth his opinion that humans are not well-served by being assimilated into that culture.

I don't see a difference.  :shrug:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6903926 -

Veritas: And he never said that the ways of dominant culture were incorrect...

I could swear it's already been determined that the only bit of correct incorrectness floating about is this one ...

Veritas: He is absolutely correct in his claims that your attitude is incorrect.

Then again, when a "schizophrenic" calls for a reality check...





.


--------------------
~ Kindness is cheap.  It's unkindness that always demands the highest price.

Blogs: Spiritual Emergency | Spiritual Recovery | Voices of Recovery | A Jungian Approach to Psychosis

Edited by spiritualemerg (05/11/07 09:01 PM)

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6904310 -

Quote:
Certainly not! He is absolutely correct in his claims that your attitude is incorrect


You were indicating that I was being a hypocrite with this statement. I made no value judgment of any sort. I only indicated that the viewpoint I perceived him expressing was a trap. A trap is a trap...it is not good or bad. It is all in what you want to catch.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6904463 -

You also said:

Embracing that attitude puts one in danger of deeper self delusion.

Is this a value-neutral statement as well?

C'mon, you were clearly expressing a judgment that his attitude towards humanity is incorrect, and then stating that he was incorrect for saying that they were incorrect.  :lol:

It's OK, as I said, we all have our "pet" ideas of what constitutes the best philosophy--why else would we find it entertaining and edifying to post here? :wink:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6905101 -

Quote:
then stating that he was incorrect for saying that they were incorrect


No, you are putting words in my mouth. Your trying to tell me what I meant instead of reading what I said. Now here is a value judgment: if you assume what people mean instead of reading or hearing what is actually said there will be communication errors. Value judgments are necessary in life. I simply said that to render judgments about incorrect and correct concerning a way of life is a trap.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: spiritualemerg]
    #6905106 -

Very much agreed. It is a very practically oriented practice :smile:


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6905195 -

There is no difference. And I am not saying culture is wrong. I'm saying it's asleep and therefore unskillful. Culture is "right" in the fact that it is. Not my preference though. That's what this thread was about for me. I'm saying I don't prefer to interact with most people because our values are so differing. Not that mine are better but very different.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6905215 -

Why are you arguing with her? She was agreeing with you. Your wording here is more clear and to the point. Put that way I agree with you.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6905233 -

Why are you arguing with her?

Don't put words in my mouth:grin:.

I wasn't arguing. I was agreeing with her point and then explaining myself further. Remember that I left my initial wording to get that great reaction out of you.:heart:

I'm glad that we agree. I knew we would.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6905295 -

If you had simply said that it was a trap, then I might agree that your statement was not a value judgment, but you also said that it would lead to "deeper self-delusion," and I cannot agree with you that this is meant to be neutral.

I'm not putting words in your mouth...in fact, I quoted you word-for-word. I stand by my assessment.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6905302 -

Ouch. Now Hue, what does your self-importance have to say about this?:monkeydance:

Now don't hit.:kaboom: I'm just having fun.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6905309 -

Sheesh, you'd think that it was somehow unusual for someone to have an opinion as to the "best" or "most preferable" way for humans to think/feel/believe/act.  Isn't that the point of philosophy?  To kick around one's ideas about THE way to live, and invite others to do the same, in order to discover the merit of said ideas?

As I said, there is nothing wrong with stating that you do not believe someone else's idea of the way to be is correct.  But to follow up such a statement with another statement that there is no correct way, and that we should not judge others' ways as being incorrect, is a bit off.

:shrug:

Still love ya', Hue!  :hug:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6905318 -

She loves ya Hue. Soon both our families will be together and the loving can begin in earnest.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6905324 -

:lol:  :rofl2:

*Hue opens new browser window, logs in to his online travel service, quickly cancels flight.*

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6905331 -

Hey, we're all going to the redwoods again for a day. :heart:

Some new faces will be along to meet.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6905339 -

Ah-hah!  So you are interested in some humans.  :wink:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6905341 -

of course.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6905555 -

If you must defend your beliefs, then your beliefs are wrong. Truth should be able to stand on its own accord as it is always true in the present moment.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: psyka]
    #6905614 -

If you must defend your beliefs, then your beliefs are wrong.

And what do you base this on? I doubt this would hold true in many situations. Debate in this forum is all about defending beliefs to see if they hold up. Some do and some don't.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6905617 -

I base it on "Truth should be able to stand on its own accord as it is always true in the present moment."


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: psyka]
    #6905633 -

And what prey tell is truth?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6905645 -

All things change, therefore all states of being are in a state of impermanence.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

Edited by psyka (05/12/07 11:45 AM)

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: psyka]
    #6905652 -

No. That is not truth. That is a truth. What is truth?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6905662 -

It is here and now. Looking beyond the present moment is craving for a concept for ones intellect to grasp at an aspect of truth.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: psyka]
    #6905674 -

So. Everyone IMO and experience does this. What does this have to do in particular with this subject? Are you being "spiritual"?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (05/12/07 11:52 AM)

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Veritas]
    #6906773 -

I said deeper self delusion because we are all operating under delusions...all of us. No one is exempt. That was my meaning. I am deluded, you are deluded, we are all deluded. Value judgments add another layer of delusion to the dream.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6906776 -

Read my last post.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6906793 -

And what is delusion?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907308 -



I said deeper self delusion (as in being on "double secret probation" -animal house.)

:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

And hey, you can only speak for your own delusion. It's a trap to say others are deluded. Don't be trapped Hue. Don't do it.:grin::heart:

Edited by Icelander (05/12/07 08:41 PM)

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6907377 -

Well think about it. If you are already operating under a set of beliefs that may or may not be accurate to reality, to assume additional beliefs reduces the possibility of accuracy.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: psyka]
    #6907384 -

Delusion is operating under a set of beliefs as if this set of beliefs were accurate to reality.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907408 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Delusion is operating under a set of beliefs as if this set of beliefs were accurate to reality.


So, effectively, operating in general? :grin:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907602 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Well think about it. If you are already operating under a set of beliefs that may or may not be accurate to reality, to assume additional beliefs reduces the possibility of accuracy.


Yes, the best way to avoid delusion is to quit believing anything.  :grin:

Quote:
Delusion: false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence.


We MAY all be deluded, to one degree or another, but this does not necessarily mean that any additional beliefs will increase our delusion.  Only false beliefs which have been invalidated by the evidence = delusion.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907691 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Delusion is operating under a set of beliefs as if this set of beliefs were accurate to reality.


So this is your belief?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6907718 -

Quote:
I'm saying I don't prefer to interact with most people because our values are so differing. Not that mine are better but very different.



My god they are going to have a tough time with you at the re-education camps.

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Clean]
    #6907731 -

No shit.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6907771 -

No, that is part of my psychoses.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907795 -

Which is just another belief. Maybe it's not psychoses. Maybe you thinking that is delusional?

You are now on the road to OZ. I hope you're happy.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (05/12/07 10:34 PM)

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6907826 -

I think the road to OZ is a good road. It is a path with heart. I seek to stop assumptions in my life.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907846 -

Do you really know about that road? Did you know that L.Frank Baum wrote a book called the road to OZ? He wrote 13 other books besides the Wizard of OZ. That according to Veritas was the most tame of all the books.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6907855 -

I know about the works of Mr. Baum first hand.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907864 -

:cool: I'm just starting to read the Road to OZ. I never knew the books existed.

Did you ever see the movie, Zardoz?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6907868 -

No I have not seen Zardoz? Is it good?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6907880 -

Depends on what you mean by good.

Rent it. It's like a really weird trip. It's well done IMO and is totally fucked up. Sean Connery is in it. It's from the early 70s I believe.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6907904 -

I'll check it out.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6909120 -


On second thought...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6909199 -

I'm telling you, it's a fucking mindbender. I've seen it maybe three times.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Icelander]
    #6910231 -

I want a fly fishing outfit like that one. The red diaper and suspenders rocks! I am downloading it as we communicate.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Not too interested in Humanity. [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6910248 -

Well I will wear a blue tutu and we can pretend we're at Burning Man. Out where we will be fishing I'm not sure anyone will see us anyway. If they do lets hope they aren't armed. It's cowboy country and this isn't Broke back Mountain.:whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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