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 unbeliever
Yo Daddy!
Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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 Re: Why is DMT illegal?  [Re: soulcircus]
#6884075 - 05/07/07 10:43 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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The main reasons drugs are illegal? Inertia. Willful ignorance.
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Happiness is a warm gun...
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dedjam
Electro Penguin
Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 2,139
Loc: Moralton, Statesota
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Quote:
OneMoreRobot3021 said:
First. Human. Psychedelic. Research. In 40 Years.
That's no joke to me.
That is a foot in the door.
The door is closed on him, there are many scientists out there who actually have credible work.
Yup first human research and he fucked it up making it even more difficult in the future for research such as his. Luckily there are real scientists out there (ones that dont site their threories as fact) that are doing some great work with psychedelics and other illegal drugs.
Scientists arent going to change drug laws though, any idiot knows that. There are tons of scientific evidence that show our Scheduling system is entirely messed up...nothing changes. There are tons of scientific studies on MJ use, yet it is still illegal, even for medical purposes in most places.
Science isnt why drugs are illegal, politics are. You want to change the legality of drugs like DMT, it starts with a change of government...and this isnt a red vs blue argument here...its an entire political mindshift change that needs to occurr...
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 ReoSpeedwagon153
Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Why is DMT illegal? [Re: dedjam]
#6884802 - 05/07/07 02:23 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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"its an entire political mindshift change that needs to occurr... "
I think it's one that is beginning to occur.
And the less we make a big deal about it, the less they will too...
Oh yeah, and DMT really isn't all that illegal. It is currently legal in America to purchase plants containing the scheduled substance. It seems like any further investigation on your use of these plants when you get them is a powerful invasion of privacy that our government is still quite unwilling to commit.
We all remember that is completely legal to consume a DMT containing beverage if it is your religious belief, right? That is a pretty fair legal status for the world's most powerful psychedelic.
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“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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dedjam
Electro Penguin
Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 2,139
Loc: Moralton, Statesota
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Quote:
ReoSpeedwagon153 said:
Oh yeah, and DMT really isn't all that illegal. It is currently legal in America to purchase plants containing the scheduled substance. It seems like any further investigation on your use of these plants when you get them is a powerful invasion of privacy that our government is still quite unwilling to commit.
We all remember that is completely legal to consume a DMT containing beverage if it is your religious belief, right? That is a pretty fair legal status for the world's most powerful psychedelic.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6882490/an/0/page/0
Those plants are legal...but illegal for consumption.
Kinda like spores, they are legal, but only to look at under a microscope.
Oh and you cant just say your aya ceremony is for religious purposes and get off...you have to be a practicing member of a church that uses aya.
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OneMoreRobot3021
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,026
Loc: the sky
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Quote:
ReoSpeedwagon153 said:
We all remember that is completely legal to consume a DMT containing beverage if it is your religious belief, right? That is a pretty fair legal status for the world's most powerful psychedelic.
Please get your facts straight and don't spread misinformation - you should do some research into the Supreme Court ruling that you're wildly misinterpreting.
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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis
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HillbillyThoth
Stranger
Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 118
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Quote:
OneMoreRobot3021 said:
Quote:
half9 said:
I like to think taking DMT will show you the 'truth' (most and all drugs will show you the truth), so the government bans them.
When I smoke Marry J, I talk about how the "Big Brother" theory is all true. The government is hiding things from us and also they are only showing us what they want.
This is why all drugs are illegal, they dont want us to know the 'truth'!
Honestly, I have to tell you people...I cringe when I read simplifications like this. Believe it or not, the government is not a tightly-knit conspiratorial unit aiming to keep people dumb...not on a conscious level at least. The idea that drugs are illegal because they expand consciousness and expose the system for its frailties, is only partially true...and more on an unconscious level than anything.
There are REAL reasons why the "drug war" exists. There are real reasons why drugs are illegal. I refer you to the hedonism of the 1960's and the 1970's, the absolute abandon and carelessness with which these substances exploded on to the cultural scene. Why are psychedelic drugs illegal? Because in a misguided attempt at "revolution," the scenes of the 60's and 70's were overrun by lazy, irresponsible people whose reasons for employing psychedelics were almost entirely selfish and hedonistic.
Like kaniz said, DMT is illegal because it is a hallucinogenic drug with no known medicinal value.
Now, obviously you and I can argue and agree that the government's definition of "medicinal value" or its need for a substance to have "medicinal value" is misguided and shortsighted, and that perhaps the government, due to the unconscious wish not to have people open their minds, doesn't want to even take the time to explore the possible value of DMT.
But for drug users to assume that the reason any drug is illegal is "because it opens our minds, man!" is not only ignorant, it is counterproductive to the cause of drug policy reform.
I kind of agree that the '60s saw too much excess and that what came out of it wasn't necessarily good (if anything came out of it at all), but that doesn't mean psychedelics should've been made illegal. You have a right to control your body, and to control what you put in your body. It doesn't matter if you make wise choices or not . . . you're an adult and the government should let you make your own decisions.
I don't know from your post if you were supporting their banning or not though.
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OneMoreRobot3021
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,026
Loc: the sky
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I don't think anyone on this website wholeheartedly supports their banning - I sure do not.
I just want people to understand the real, grounded-in-reality reasons for the illegality of the substances they love. Because the more you understand why they are illegal, the more we will come to understand how to fight that.
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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis
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retrospect
Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,340
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: Why is DMT illegal? [Re: soulcircus]
#6885267 - 05/07/07 04:17 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
soulcircus said:
i understand what your all saying and its all very true, but things the government can't actually say:
what are the reasons that are put forward by the government to its legality?
The reasons put forward in the contitution are:
"DMT has a potential for abuse and no medically known use."
It's stupid because alcohol could fit into that category + have a load of other reasons too.
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coAsTal
Friend
Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 2,970
Loc: 8a
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While I want to believe that reasonable and responsible people would prevail if our mind-expanding tools were not illegal, I'm afraid that our culture and society is hardwired for irresponsibility and abuse. Government isn't stupid, really-- they're pragmatic.
They would be misused by thousands, by the tens or hundreds of thousands-- exactly as alcohol and cigarettes are. The difference with those two drugs is that they were ingrained in our culture already, before their harm could be regulated effectively by a mobilized government.
Psychedelics simply weren't used socially by high amounts of people soon enough, or they would have been accepted as the much more dangerous alcohol and tobacco were...just by their pervasiveness.
Another thing:
These shit-ass laws aren't aimed at the many responsible and intelligent drug users on this forum-- they are aimed, as most all laws are, at the mindless fucking idiots-- the rednecks, the immature fools, the arrogant-- who don't have the mental ability to not abuse and misapply a drug and it's experience. They are a punishment/deterrent for the simple-minded that are most disposed to abuse and pervert the meaning and use of our (normally) positive tools for thought.
I want these things to be legal-- but they never will be, because our culture no longer has a built-in responsibility for it's own actions-- that died in the afore-mentioned 60's crock of shit known as the "drug revolution".
That group of sanctimonious, self-absorbed, fuck-the-establishment assholes have permanently erased any potential for cultural goodwill in the psychedelic world. At least for the foreseeable future...
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I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination-- John Keats
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JeffersonDarcy
Stranger
Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 182
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Why is DMT illegal? [Re: coAsTal]
#6885635 - 05/07/07 05:43 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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DMT was banned as an afterthought. DMT itself has never even been demonized by the government and its propaganda like many other drugs.
basically heres what happened. in the early-mid 60's, all psychdelics were legal and were even available for mail order. LSD became very popular. other psychedelics gained some notoriety but nowhere near what LSD had.
there was also countercultural movement. LSD played a big part in this movement, whether it was actually a catalyst or just something people in the movement did.
The government obviously hated the counterculture, as it was probably the closest this country has came to revolution. so the government figured the best way to supress them is to make them outlaws. so they banned LSD as part of the controlled substances act of 1966. they also banned all other fairly well known (by scientists if not the public) substances with similar effects to LSD. this included psilocybin/mushrooms mescaline/peyote and DMT (maybe some others I dont remember). this was not done because these substances were dangerous. their relative safety was well known by the scientific community. it was done to target a group of people, same as the reason most other illegal drugs have been banned.
they didnt go after DMT specifically. in fact its pretty weird that they banned DMT at all considering it has never been well known. When was the last time you heard any pop culture reference to DMT?
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coAsTal
Friend
Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 2,970
Loc: 8a
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DMT is exploding right now
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I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination-- John Keats
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HillbillyThoth
Stranger
Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 118
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: Why is DMT illegal? [Re: coAsTal]
#6885737 - 05/07/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
coAsTal said:
DMT is exploding right now
Meh; maybe on the internet and with "hardcore" psychedelic users but I don't know anyone in real life who's heard of it besides this one homeless guy.
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coAsTal
Friend
Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 2,970
Loc: 8a
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I hope you're right...
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I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination-- John Keats
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yageman
already dead
Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 4,965
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Why is DMT illegal? [Re: coAsTal]
#6885806 - 05/07/07 06:29 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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As far as the official answer goes:
It has no medical uses, it gets you high as hell, and supposedly has the potential for abuse(in my own words).
In other words, for very fucking stupid reasons.
It also fits perfectly into the newer analogue laws even though that was not the source for its banning. Though there are some similarities.
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The laws sound stupid as hell and these fuckers most certainly have ulterior motives.
Im just glad that they dont put people to death in europe, and the US etc, for smoking pot like they do in some parts of the world.
Two college students were sentenced to death(FOR WEED) in indonesia just recently.
Ironically, weed possibly originated in such parts of asia.
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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material. No 'thing' fixes any situation. If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.
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thehandtruck
Just ahead of me
Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 163
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: Why is DMT illegal? [Re: dedjam]
#6887109 - 05/07/07 10:50 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
gopenguins said:
Quote:
thehandtruck said:
Some of you guys are incredibly naive. Just as posted above drug use was rampant and careless. People did get hurt. People did go permanently crazy. You want to legalize DMT? Team up with Strassman and show the goverment there are legitimate uses for DMT.
Proof of someone going permanently crazy on DMT? You stated it, back it up.
I meant all the drugs all the time with no regard for personal safety and the safety of others. Do you think the masses knew the difference between DMT and LSD? No, it was just another drug that got you high, man.
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