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Long you live and high you fly,
smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry,
and all you touch and all you see
is all your life will ever be -- Pink Floyd

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I had the sudden realization that the interior world of the self and the outer world around us are both illusions based on our sense of self. In reality the exterior world and the interior world are the same thing. Each is a reflection of the other.

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In my opinion this is exactly the key to what you were referring. There's no interior world or exterior world, it's just us sitting in a certain point and trying to make some differences between things so that our analytic mind can grasp them more easily. When in fact it's all one.
This reminds me of a thread you opened a while ago named the warrior in flux. I think that flux in becoming aware that this "whole" needs to be surfed, needs to be transcended in order to be taken at it's fullest potential.
I think that here now attitude requires making use on these both worlds as we tend to categorize them. And with those particular differences our minds are used to make because they apply to material matters and we live amongst them.
Thanks for the read

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redgreenvines said:
you can be open,
breathing in the expansive continuum .
when closed,
many distinctions seem to rule.

I read this while lounging in the expansive continuum.

going to do a bit of excericise now, rollerblades, Hope it does not rain.

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psyka said:
...you get out what you put in.

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Huehuecoyotl said:
I was running for exercise the other day, and a storm broke loose leaving me running in an extremely hard rain. I don't know why, but it triggered a realization.

I have been working for some time on the practice of meditation, and bringing more of the here/now existence to my daily life in a functional way as well. In the practice of being in the present we are taught to focus on the now. Practical instruction in this art often leaves much to be desired. We are often presented with a conflict: To stay in the here now we must pull back inside ourselves and focus on the internal world, but to truly be present we must focus on the exterior world around us becoming aware of every aspect of our surroundings. I have often been at a loss as to whether one's awareness is benefited more focusing on the outer world of the consensual reality or the interior world of the self. I had the sudden realization that the interior world of the self and the outer world around us are both illusions based on our sense of self. In reality the exterior world and the interior world are the same thing. Each is a reflection of the other. There is no stopping point where the exterior world becomes the interior world, as everything is a reflection of our interior process. The self does not stop at any point and the external world start, for it is all the same. This realization was helpful to me in a practical way, but I don't know if anyone else will find it practical. In hind sight it is sort of basic, but I posted it here in order to work out my thoughts on the matter.

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Long you live and high you fly,
smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry,
and all you touch and all you see
is all your life will ever be -- Pink Floyd

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everyone says so

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I suggest a raincoat.

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OrgoneConclusion said:

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everyone says so

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I don't, listen: Hear Ye! Hear Ye! I proclaim no difference in RGV's driving.

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Huehuecoyotl said:
Lucky you for knowing me.

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I was running for exercise the other day...

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are we creating the order with our attention

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Huehuecoyotl said:
Yes, I think so. I feel that we manifest our reality at the point where we place our attention. If we end so does that order. At least I like to see it that way as it is a useful concept to place my attention on.

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Yes. It has been demonstrated to be true in my workplace. There is the store as it objectively exists, devoid of meaning or order, and then there are waves of influence emanting through everyone that creates the perpetual motion. One manager's direction is not the other's. There is so much that only I know and I establish order around that - others who do not know obstruct that order, and do fucked up things like building a $300 playground that a customer special ordered three weeks previously, all simply because there was a big box in the backroom and they wanted it gone then, instead of waiting to talk to me about it when I returned from the weekend.

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Veritas said:
Is the order real, or merely an expression of the limitations of human perception?  IOW, does the chaos continue, while we perceive order, or do we truly assemble order with our attention (and intention)?

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The order is real, within our perceptions. Our perceptions of that order influence the manner in which we interact with reality, effectively altering reality as it objectively exists so that it mirrors our conception of its order.

Is it truly in a state of order without our human perception? I couldn't think so, because order is a human conception. Yet there it is, the effects of our conception of order are clearly demonstrated.

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Veritas said:
Hmmm, so stupidity and impatience are forces of chaos?

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No, conflicting visions of order. Clearly, however, their vision of order did not reflect reality as it truly exists, as they soon learned when the customer was in shopping that weekend and saw the display in front of the store. By the time I talked to her Sunday night at 10pm, she had already made a move towards finding one through another avenue, and now had to wait weeks again. She did not want to purchase the display because it was an adjustable playground that had different configurations, and without the box she could not know how to set them up. Of course, I smoothly offered her a discount on the display and the consolation that she could almost certainly find that information on the internet, but it was too late. I did everything I could do and she appreciated it all the way, and I expressed disappointment that it had to happen that way, and took resposnibility for not taking steps that, which would have seemed unnecessary, would have ensured it wouldn't have happened.

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Veritas said:
Yet acting "as if" does not necessarily make it so.

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Why doesn't it? Reality thus conforms to our conception of it through our interaction with it. Our sense of order exists within reality as we are undeniably central aspects of reality. The mystical experience of reality? Doesn't it give one pause as to what all of this is?

Regardless of all of that, it is demonstrative that the order that we conceive does exist in that form in reality. When an entire backroom is converted to steel bins for Toys overstock for Christmas, and the assemblers set it all up, I walk in there and observe. I see the empty space and contemplate the heaters on the ceiling (height limitations)... I consider which categories will require which space to best accomodate them, and recall the last year, when I was only stocking, and how everything was managed then....

I then represent the layout in a notebook and sit outside, slamming an energy drink and formulating which category will go where....

Soon enough, freight beings to roll in and the organization is implemented the best it can be. Eventually I am working with a co-manager and he tells me six months later that he has never seen such an organized backroom and how effortlessly I could utilize it to stock the floor, and he used to be a department manager in the same department....

Order does not exist but as a human perception? Order is a demonstrative phenomenon. You are simply speculating as to where "Order" is stored, and yet even then it is still within reality.

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Veritas said:
Yes, it was clearly your fault for not plastering the box with signs which read "DO NOT ASSEMBLE AND PLACE ON DISPLAY!"

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Actually, there was no pratical means by which I could have prevented it, beyond simply checking pre-notification reports each evening. Even then, if it came in on Saturday night then I wouldn't have had access to that information anyways. Scanning the information for the item with the system could have informed me when it would have been in the warehouse, which would have given me foreknowledge, with which I would have communicated with the unloaders to ensure that the product would have been effectively facillitated.

However, realities of my position and the other tasks that I am involved with would have prevented me from dedicating myself to following up on that task, even though, in the future, in a similar situation, it will now be my course for action, even if I have to tattoo the UPC to my hand so that I can scan it every day.

No, this particular situation would be very similar to that of the truck delivering the product having an accident in route. I would have had just about as much control over the situation.

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Gazing past the planets, looking for total view
I've been lying here for hours,
You've got to make the journey out and in

Wonders of a lifetime, right there before your eyes
Searching with this life of ours
You've got to make the journey out and in
Out and in, out and in.

If you think it's a joke, that's all right
Do what you want to do.
I've said my piece and I'll leave it all up to you

Wonders of a lifetime, right there before your eyes
Searching with this life of ours
You've got to make the journey out and in
Out and in, out and in.

If you think it's a joke, that's all right
Do what you want to do.
I've said my piece and I'll leave it all up to you

Gazing past the planets, looking for total view
I've been lying here for hours,
You've got to make the journey out and in
Out and in, out and in -- The Moody Blues

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Veritas said:
Please direct us to the sly sexual innuendo forum, dear sir.

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Yeah I've been wondering where that one is. I'll moderate that one instead.