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InvisibleTrippinTeddy
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Agricultural Lime???
    #6862889 - 05/02/07 01:15 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Is this basically hydrated lime?

If it is safe to use how much does one recommend I use to buffer the ph of 3 bricks of coir?

I was thinking of adding a cup or so to the bucket I'm going to use to expand my coir in. Would this be wise?


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Offlinefargone
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: TrippinTeddy]
    #6862949 - 05/02/07 01:34 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

i don't believe you need to adjust the ph of coir itself, just the peat side of it. if you are spawning to coir just use it as it is or add some spent coffee grounds to add some nitrogen - think about adding some gypsum as well to aid in ph neutralizing


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OfflinePitcherCrab
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: TrippinTeddy]
    #6862960 - 05/02/07 01:37 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TrippinTeddy said:
Is this basically hydrated lime?




I had this same question. I went to the garden supply store looking for hydrated lime and this is all they had. I want to use it to pasteurize straw.


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OfflineGrogan
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: PitcherCrab]
    #6862984 - 05/02/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Coir usually colonizes fast enuf to not need lime. However, it cannot hurt it to be added... its really debatable.

The lime I have says horticultural hydrated lime not sure if its the same, but if its a fine whitish green powder its def the right kind.


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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: Grogan]
    #6863193 - 05/02/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I believe that agricultural lime has a high magnesium content and that is supposed to be bad for mushies. Get and expert opinion though. You should be able to find hydrated lime somewhere. Try a hydro store.

Oyster shell flour can be obtained at pet stores (bird bedding)

So can calcium carbonate (used for reptiles I think)


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: MasFina]
    #6863271 - 05/02/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

they are not the same, i think the agricultural grade has dolomite in it and you dont want that with you r mushrooms. heres a pic on the left of what i got. local garden store around 4 dollars



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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: blood4blood]
    #6863277 - 05/02/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Dat's what I use too. Same brands and everything


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OfflineHafrican
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: TrippinTeddy]
    #6863859 - 05/02/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Agricultural lime is ground limestone. This is calcium carbonate.

Hydrated lime is calcium hydroxide and is less forgiving and more difficult to work with than calcium carbonate. As BH or MM pointed out somewhere, it's difficult to add too much calcium carbonate, since it is a buffering agent and will only swing the pH so much. Hydrated lime can push your pH to like 12 if you're not careful.

If you're going to work with hydrated lime, you have to balance the pH. Go for one of the mini vial kits at a garden center. They are inexpensive and more than accurate enough for your needs.

Not to be a bitch, but this information is readily available on the interweb.


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OfflineHafrican
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: blood4blood]
    #6863877 - 05/02/07 05:15 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blood4blood said:
they are not the same, i think the agricultural grade has dolomite in it and you dont want that with you r mushrooms. heres a pic on the left of what i got. local garden store around 4 dollars




Dolomitic lime is an entirely different beast, but you're right in saying that it shouldn't be used to adjust casing pH.


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: Hafrican]
    #6863902 - 05/02/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

yea that wasnt a quote. i thought agri lime had something in it that you didnt want mixed up with your casing but i could be wrong.

so you can use agricultural grade lime then?


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OfflineHafrican
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: blood4blood]
    #6864253 - 05/02/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Agricultural lime is your best bet. It is mild and won't swing the pH too drastically.

Hydrated lime, supplemented with oyster shell can work provided you test the pH. Hydrated lime is way more "reactive" than agricultural lime for lack of a better term.

Dolomitic lime is shite as far as we are concerned.

I think the "Hi yield" brand must be more mild than the Espoma hydrated lime I use, because I swear the Espoma has like a 1/2 teaspoon tolerance between success and catastrophic failure.....

Just my .02 and personal experience.


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OfflineGrogan
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: Hafrican]
    #6864271 - 05/02/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I use that Hi-Yield stuff...

Any advice on it like how much to use in coir and in 50/50??

I am currently adding 1 teaspoon per cup of peatmoss as RR says, however I am not for certain on how much should go into coir..


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OfflineHafrican
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: Grogan]
    #6864350 - 05/02/07 07:04 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I've found coir/verm to be fairly pH balanced out of the bag (so to speak).

Having crappy pin sets with coir/verm, I tried 50/50+.

You really need to eat the $5 and get one of those soil-vial-pH-test kits, because hydrated lime varies so much in pH.

Think about it: coir, verm, peat, oyster shell, whatever. All are manufactured under different brands from different sources to different locales.

Who is to say that the same brand will have the same pH throughout the manufacturing process? From what I've read, pH is site-specific and needs to be adjusted by you, each time you prepare a casing.

And peat-based casings are way more worthwhile than coir/verm. It's not opinion: it's more or less fact. It's often cited that Stammets makes no mention of coir while discussing casing.

Personally, my pinsets have been nothing less than phenomenal after switching over to peat-based casings... This is compared to when I used coir (off of the same isolates).


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: Grogan]
    #6864353 - 05/02/07 07:05 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

i was told by rr if your using coir as your substrate and spawning to that to not add any lime to it. just add lime to your casing


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Agricultural Lime??? [Re: blood4blood] * 1
    #6864820 - 05/02/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

If coir is your substrate you 'can' skip the lime and just use gypsum. Coir has a pH of around 5 which is pretty darn low. Trichoderma prefers a pH of 5, so without lime or gypsum, coir and peat are perfect trich foods. We can get away without balancing coir because it colonizes so fast, but I'd still use gypsum, which tends to set the pH in the mid 6 range.

Casing layers should be set to an initial pH of 8 because peat/verm rarely colonizes fully, so you want protection from trichoderma, and a high pH is the best way to do it.

For pasteurizing straw, you need hydrated lime. The others won't cut it. 'Hydrated' means water soluble, so it raises the pasteurization bath water to a pH of around 12, which nukes most organisms.

Nobody can say exactly how much hydrated lime to use for casing layers. My 1 teaspoon per cup of peat is a safe starting point, but the correct amount to use is what it takes to get an initial pH of 8 to 8.5
RR


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