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Karmatron
Kundalini Kid



Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Planet Zuyua
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
I enjoyed, much more, the episode in which they work together and start their own exclusive club, the Crips.
That episode is classic.
Haha, "Like, come on!"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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You are putting words into her post that she never used. I explained my position very clearly with examples of what she said several times. 
As a moderator. What a joke.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (04/29/07 10:33 AM)
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: The workaround [Re: Icelander]
#6849735 - 04/29/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: You are putting words into her post that she never used. I explained my position very clearly with examples of what she said several times. 
As a moderator. What a joke.
He is not putting words into my post, he read it better. In my first response addressed to you I stated the following:
Quote:
If we were on the same spiritual level as an amoeba we should do exactly what amoebas do - nothing. 
As you can see I specified the word level. I perceive that the level of awareness an amoeba has, makes her unable to manifest (at least in a way that we could observe) it's need for spirituality. I NEVER stated that they weren't aware at all. Take note and read again, because it's pretty damn obvious.
You were the one who made assumptions (wrong ones) and you put words into my post drawing the conclusion that when I said what I quoted earlier I was implying that amoebas were not aware at all.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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There is NO evidence to whatsoever to sustain that amoebas are self aware.
How many times do I have to show this (your words) to you?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: The workaround [Re: Icelander]
#6849781 - 04/29/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: There is NO evidence to whatsoever to sustain that amoebas are self aware.
How many times do I have to show this (your words) to you?
That's exactly what I answered you in my last reponse:
Quote:
I perceive that the level of awareness an amoeba has, makes her unable to manifest (at least in a way that we could observe) it's need for spirituality.
What exactly don't you understand from all that?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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So something with a soul has no need for spirituality?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The workaround [Re: Icelander]
#6849808 - 04/29/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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And when did the idea of the need for spirituality enter into this. I glanced back at the thread and didn't notice you mentioning this. Could you find where you did [early on] and show this to me?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: The workaround [Re: Icelander]
#6849873 - 04/29/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: You are putting words into her post that she never used.
No, I was putting words into my own posts, although I certainly could put words into anyone's posts, "as a moderator". 
Quote:
I explained my position very clearly with examples of what she said several times. 
I understand this. I presented my own position, very clearly, with examples of what others had said as well. 
The interesting thing about that is that you seem to not hold the same perspective as me, but yet you haven't challenged or questioned any of my actual statements. Why is that, do you think? 
Quote:
As a moderator. What a joke.
It was a reference to being in a position of impartial observation. When you spend five years in this forum, you develop a sense of the flow of discussion, and how to introduce one's own perspective into the discussion, which is made available for anyone to discuss.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: The workaround [Re: Icelander]
#6849880 - 04/29/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: And when did the idea of the need for spirituality enter into this. I glanced back at the thread and didn't notice you mentioning this. Could you find where you did [early on] and show this to me?
Discussion isn't a concrete, static thing.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: The workaround [Re: Icelander]
#6849892 - 04/29/07 03:37 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: And when did the idea of the need for spirituality enter into this. I glanced back at the thread and didn't notice you mentioning this. Could you find where you did [early on] and show this to me?
Here:
Quote:
There is nothing much to the idea of God or Spirituality in general as regards afterlife and and our special significance in the scheme of things. Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Psychology etc. are just attempts to fix a problem in day to day living and that is all they are really good for. 
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Amoebas and their active lifestyle [Re: Icelander]
#6849897 - 04/29/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/sci/A0803647.html
Amoebas do not, in fact, do nothing. They are capable of locomotion, reproduction, digestion, invading "host" organisms, and even rudimentary discernment (they can distinguish food from non-food, and will not attempt to reproduce unless they detect the presence of food and water).
If a highly-complex lifeform were observing humans from a great distance, it might develop a similar POV as to the capabilities of humans. 
We cannot discern the spiritual level, or lack thereof, of an amoeba nor any other organism. It is untestable and impossible to communicate or understand without prejudice (i.e. our established conventions of what "spirituality" looks like).
We can look for signs which conform to our standards of consciousness, awareness, spirituality, cognition, etc...but this process only establishes whether or not an organism possesses qualities similar to our own.
Ultimately, it is "best guess," and there is not much on which to base our guesses. It seems rather like the "how many angels can dance on a head of a pin?" question--IOW, unanswerable and fairly fruitless to discuss.
Quote:
Icelander said: The longer I live the shakier any ideas I have had that man is somehow a spiritual being in any differing way than an amoeba is. Evolution and survival seem to be the important factors.
Quote:
Mushroom Trip said:If we were on the same spiritual level as an amoeba we should do exactly what amoebas do - nothing.
If humans are spiritual beings, then amoebas are spiritual beings. We may have more complex expressions, but we are engaged in the same activity: living. To say that humans are at a different "spiritual level" is to make unwarranted assumptions about what constitutes spirituality.
We don't KNOW what spirit is, or even IF it is, so how can we define its level, presence, absence, etc...?
Edited by Veritas (04/29/07 03:53 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Amoebas and their active lifestyle [Re: Veritas]
#6850071 - 04/29/07 04:23 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: We don't KNOW what spirit is, or even IF it is, so how can we define its level, presence, absence, etc...?
We cannot through scientific means, yet the nature of awareness is that, through becoming more aware, we subsequently become more understanding of that nature of awareness. I'm not proposing that I personally am aware enough to start making such definitions, but perhaps enough to being speculating, using that awareness as an intuition of sorts.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Amoebas and their active lifestyle [Re: fireworks_god]
#6850102 - 04/29/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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But that presupposes that our version of awareness/spirituality/consciousness is an accurate tool to both detect and measure other possible versions.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Amoebas and their active lifestyle [Re: Veritas]
#6850129 - 04/29/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: But that presupposes that our version of awareness/spirituality/consciousness is an accurate tool to both detect and measure other possible versions.
Awareness is fundamentally awareness, regardless of what is conducting it. Its simply a matter of the manner in which they are conducting it, like directing light through a prism....
It presupposes it, perhaps, because of the fact that our entire existance is that as awareness. Awareness is our experience of reality. Reality is awareness.
Its simply a question if it is generated because of our structure, or if our structure is simply effective in conducting it, something that is inherent within all reality. Its all energy, after all. I think I've implied my answer to this question.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Amoebas and their active lifestyle [Re: fireworks_god]
#6850160 - 04/29/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Its simply a matter of the manner in which they are conducting it, like directing light through a prism....
Light is an excellent analogy, as there are forms of light which we cannot see. If we decided that our lack of ability to see light meant that it did not exist, wouldn't this be the same as claiming that awareness did not exist unless we could detect it with our awareness?
Reality may consist of awareness, or it may not. It may consist of invisible jelly doughnuts. This may be another example of our imposing our definitions on an unknown and possibly unknowable entity.
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