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OfflineSilllo
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Registered: 02/28/07
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Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis...
    #6815466 - 04/21/07 10:22 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ok, I'm still a noob at this darned hobby and I've recently just cased some EQ cakes and had a great pinset but was then disappointed to find hollow stipes/stems upon harvesting. What should have amounted to at least 150g came out to a stumbling 54g. I've searched the message board on the hollow stem issue and have yet to find an agreed upon reason for hollow stipes. Well, I would like to throw my hat into the ring here as I have a theory that I would like some feedback from the panel here at the Mecca of Mycologists.

After reading through the old posts many have offered theories regarding the catalyst behind the hollow stipes to be either genetics of the spores used, environmental conditions of the FC (i.e. humidity, light, etc.)and after mulling it over and drawing from my background in engineering I believe it is a case of conservation of energy. There must be a correlation between volume of substrate and yield as I think that everyone here would agree exists. I believe, at least in my case that the area which I have requested these lovely basidiomycetes was too great in relation to the volume of mycelium provided. When they decided to fruit so many pins formed and there was not enough energy to supply the full growth so they had to make a few cutbacks and they chose to make their cutbacks in the stipes.

I think the fact that these buggers grew tall and fast is a testament to the conditions of the FC being ideal, or at least sufficient. If FAE was too sparse and too much CO2 built up, I would assume they would stall, stunt and abort. Moisture levels (casing and/or humidity) out of whack would drown or cause slow growth depending on the extreme. Lighting and temperature would affect pinning, growth direction and speed. None of these applied to my case.

Perhaps this has been suggested before, but I could not find it, so if it has, I apologize. I would welcome feedback on this hypothesis, no, actually I implore you to do so.

Here is my initial post regarding the setup:
My First Casing w/pics - Comments & Criticisms Welcome


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A child's rhyme stuck in my head.
It said that life is but a dream.
I've spent so many years in question
to find I've known this all along.

The truth is in between the 1st and 40th drink.

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InvisibleRoachMan
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: Silllo]
    #6815914 - 04/21/07 12:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

In my experience...
Even from the same strain on the same substrate;
whenever there is less water in the substrate there is a propensity to form a more solid stem.

The ability of the mycelium to utilize water faster ends up in taller mushrroms with hollower stems.

Differences in growth probably involves every single factor, but this is the one that I have noticed the most.
(in my setup FAE is maximized, misting is automated, and water content is probably the most variable factor)

You can still pull quite a bit of weight off a flush of smaller mushies that have more solid stems. :wink:


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"The mistake that I make is to try to come awake in a place you're just supposed to get shit faced or baked."

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Offlineetam
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: RoachMan]
    #6815943 - 04/21/07 12:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

EQ stems are just hollow and I agree it can make their weight deceiving. It's completely a genetic thing though. They're going to be that way no matter what you do. Some strains have hollow stems, some don't.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: RoachMan]
    #6815948 - 04/21/07 12:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I've found it to be genetic. When you start doing agar work, isolate strains and select for large, meaty, thick mushrooms that also have the other qualities you seek. That's what you'll get every time.
RR


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OfflineSilllo
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: etam]
    #6816034 - 04/21/07 01:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Etam, so you've never had a flush of EQ's with solid stems? I never gathered that it was the strain from my readings. I was under the impression that it was something that happened to all cubes or else I wouldn't have given my situation much thought.


--------------------
A child's rhyme stuck in my head.
It said that life is but a dream.
I've spent so many years in question
to find I've known this all along.

The truth is in between the 1st and 40th drink.

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OfflineSilllo
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Registered: 02/28/07
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Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: RoachMan]
    #6816046 - 04/21/07 01:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Roachman,

Well I certainly wouldn't think that my substrate was over watered. I didn't even dunk the cakes before crumbling them...just birthed and crumbled.

And trust me, I'd rather have smaller and meatier fruits than these, although they surely do dry in a flash!


--------------------
A child's rhyme stuck in my head.
It said that life is but a dream.
I've spent so many years in question
to find I've known this all along.

The truth is in between the 1st and 40th drink.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSilllo
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6816067 - 04/21/07 01:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

RR,

Obviously I value your opinion as much as anyone's on here regarding mycology. When I did my search I found a few posts where even you were unsure of the cause. Perhaps they were older though, as I either didn't check or don't remember the date of the post. This is my first run with this strain, and if it is just something genetic about the EQ's then I'll probably just stick to something more stout. My B+'s have been nice and solid, but I have yet to case them and only did DnR cakes. And the PE's I've gotten so far are quite stout but not the most yeilding (as I've read is normal).

My most pressing concern right now is getting a flow hood built as I really don't have ideal conditions regarding sterility. Although I haven't really had any mold contamination yet, I'm sure it will come as I move on to bags and agar. My one attempt at cloning my B+ to grain failed in a huge, stinky, bacterial way. I have tried 2 bags of grain with KSSS, but I am still waiting on those results and am losing hope.

Anyhow, I'm rambling ...

Thanks for your input.


--------------------
A child's rhyme stuck in my head.
It said that life is but a dream.
I've spent so many years in question
to find I've known this all along.

The truth is in between the 1st and 40th drink.

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OfflineCryogenicz
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: Silllo]
    #6816087 - 04/21/07 01:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Best way, imo, is to grow out a big flush with the substrate you intend on using for a while. clone the best mushroom you have, with the traits you wish to to keep. Repeat and you should get that same mushroom, if you use the same substrate and fruiting conditions.

-Graham


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OfflineSilllo
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: Silllo]
    #6816341 - 04/21/07 03:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Also, what other strains are known for hollow stipes?


--------------------
A child's rhyme stuck in my head.
It said that life is but a dream.
I've spent so many years in question
to find I've known this all along.

The truth is in between the 1st and 40th drink.

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InvisibleBacchus
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: Silllo]
    #6816434 - 04/21/07 04:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Every Z or Burmese Yangoon that I've grown have had hollow stipes. Curiously, though, I just found a small BY tray that had been totally neglected and left on a shelf with just a paper plate over it. I had never intended on getting a second flush out of it, but it fruited again without my adding any water. The fruits were small, pale, and solid


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Living on a no-Flash diet is way easier than you think. Give it a shot.

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Invisiblemusher_420
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: Bacchus]
    #6816535 - 04/21/07 05:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I've seen this too, Bacchus. Trays I've neglected and left in an unhumidified greenhouse would produce fruits exactly as you describe: small, pale, cracked caps and solid stocks. When the first flush had hollow stems. But these aren't ideal conditions, so obviously you wanna clone a fruit that has the traits you want when grown in the conditions your using..

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Offlinefromthemoon
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: musher_420]
    #6816616 - 04/21/07 05:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I've experimented here after I got a monotub that fruited tons, but had hollow stems. I knocked-up 4 mono tubs with the same strain (Blue Meanie, cubes). I already knew the monotub holes were providing minimal FAE. I left 2 tubs sealed till they fruited and I fanned the other 2 tubs 8 times per day.

The tubs with no fanning had hella hollow stems. They were even weak and brittle. The tubs with fanning produced fruits the same size, but with solid stems.

It was a night and day difference and although each tub has a similar pin-set and produced the same number of fruits - the ones with FAE weighed 25% more.

I worked with an agar isolated strain, colonized one grain jar with that, then did a G2G transfer to knock-up all the grain jars used for all the tubs. Substrate and casing materials were all from the same source/batch.

I know genes first play a role - but obviously there is some truth to FAE.


--------------------
Look at the atoms in the air and allow your mind to see the other planes that coexists in the same physical space where you sit. There are vibrational strings in each and every atom containing infinite realities, universes, and dimensions. Multidimensional beings and entities are RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU!!! Only gravity and mental energy can pass through these different atomic branes and mushrooms can break the mental/spiritual membranes separating one reality from the other. TAKE A LOOK!

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InvisibleBacchus
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Re: Hollow Stipes/stems - a hypothesis... [Re: fromthemoon]
    #6816713 - 04/21/07 06:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

FAE can be a factor, but there are many other forces at work. I've got a three-tier greenhouse with a coolmist running inside. The coolmist's fresh air intake is piped in from the outside, so I get lots and lots of FAE.

Both strains that I've ever grown have been at near optimal environment, and they've been hollow. From my limited experience, I'd say that it's 90% genetics.


--------------------


Living on a no-Flash diet is way easier than you think. Give it a shot.

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