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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Degrees of Molestation 
#6809067 - 04/19/07 02:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Which do you think is worse, or are they equivalent?
1. A 30 year old man who has sex with a 14 year old girl
2. A 30 year old woman who has sex with a 14 year old boy
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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 Mitchnast
Toadmonger
 
Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 8,657
Loc: Okanagan
Last seen: 6 days, 18 minutes
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 Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Diploid]
#6809104 - 04/19/07 02:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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if I was the 14 yr old boy......
its a no-brainer
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Diploid]
#6809107 - 04/19/07 02:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Same same. Same amount of fun for all. Or not. Exactly the same amount I say. Totally equivalent. 50/50. Half and Half. Equal in all ways shapes and forms.
More or less.;)
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (04/19/07 02:41 PM)
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vigilant_mind
unfazed
Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Diploid]
#6809177 - 04/19/07 03:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Given the current gender roles in our society-- and not to mention the stigma associated with men over 18 having sexual relations with underage females-- I'd say that #1 is worse.
Now, these two hypothetical situations should be equals, yet our society has perverted their individual value in ways I've described above.
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daytripper23
?
Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: 
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Ethics are super.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Diploid]
#6809201 - 04/19/07 03:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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A 35 yo man who has sex with a 50 yo woman really creeps me out. 
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Now, these two hypothetical situations should be equals, yet our society has perverted their individual value in ways I've described above.
OK. How about this: Child molestation is no big deal and mostly harmless, though undesirable in most cases where the kid consents. A kid who's been molested is more psychologically damaged by the societal response than by the molestation itself.
If a molested kid is told "Well, uncle Fred is sick and we've made sure he'll never do that to you again. Now run along and play", I think he/she will mostly forget the incident.
But when the societal response is freaked out parents, freaked out teachers, school in an uproar, newspaper reporters knocking on the door, police interviews, and psychology sessions with anatomically correct dolls finally leading to depositions, lawyers, judges, and court rooms, THAT is what causes most of the harm.
Note: I think molestation is to be avoided at all costs, but when it happens, the first priority should be to minimize the additional damage done to the kid by the societal response. And I'm not talking about a case of rape which is already likely to have caused lifelong trauma.
What do you think?
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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A 35 yo man who has sex with a 50 yo woman really creeps me out.
There was a young guy (late 20s) in Miami a few years ago who was serial raping elderly women in one of the local retirement communities. Weird...
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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vigilant_mind
unfazed
Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Diploid]
#6809218 - 04/19/07 03:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I definitely concur with you here. The immediate, knee-jerk response of the victim's environmental bystanders is going to play a large role in how the victim (presumably quite young) interprets the situation. Today, in our society, molestation (although it is completely wrong) has been stigmatized quite a bit, especially in regards to men having sex with underage women.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Diploid]
#6809254 - 04/19/07 03:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
A 35 yo man who has sex with a 50 yo woman really creeps me out.
There was a young guy (late 20s) in Miami a few years ago who was serial raping elderly women in one of the local retirement communities. Weird...
It's weird because you don't get that physical appearance and provocative mannerisms are not the only things that cause sexual arousal in people. Pyromaniacs, for example, set fires, watch the mayhem, sirens, lights, screaming, etc., and masturbate to the whole situation.
Power and control of helpless beings gives lots of guys hard-ons unfortunately. Whether infants, young children, adolescents, weaker adults or elderly. A few months ago in Miami, a teenage guy convinced a very old women to open her door at 2 am, claiming he was the superintendent. He raped her. Why, because she had an exotically beautiful face and gorgeous body? No, the situation of power turned him on and he used his victim to relieve his sexual tension. I once discussed the spike in sexual battery on infants by a newly arrived 3rd world population in North Miami. Infant rape means infant murder in many cases. Can't be sexy babies.
True fetishists only require a fetish object to ejaculate. I share common fetish reactions, but whereas I am turned on by my Lady in platform heels, I don't masturbate with the shoes when the woman is not in them!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Diploid]
#6809274 - 04/19/07 03:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
A 35 yo man who has sex with a 50 yo woman really creeps me out.
There was a young guy (late 20s) in Miami a few years ago who was serial raping elderly women in one of the local retirement communities. Weird...
So you never got caught? 
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DrCamacho89
Mazel Tuff
Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1,981
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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I don't think sex at such a young age for a boy is as traumatic as it is for a young girl, but I'm no shrink. Have you ever seen Notes on a Scandal? It's about a middle aged housewife who has raised a mentally disabled son for the past 10 years and is so bored with her life, she starts teaching high school PE and has an affair, not just sex, with a 15 year old. A woman that would be able to do that, rely on the mind of a 15 year old boy to give her satisfaction and worth? She's pretty messed up. Not like a guy who would do that isn't, but I think the stigma is so strong for podophile men that it just seems worse. But it's really not. Those people are equally as screwed up.
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"The Highways of Life are Paved with Flat Squirrels who Couldn't Make Up Their Minds"
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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It's weird because you don't get that physical appearance and provocative mannerisms are not the only things that cause sexual arousal in people.
I think it's weird because a 20something guy wanting to have sex with a post menopausal 80 year old woman with dentures doesn't compute for me.
Maybe I'm the weird one. I dunno... 
Power and control of helpless beings gives lots of guys hard-ons unfortunately.
That doesn't compute for me either. The whole porn scene where the central theme is humiliation is just bizarre to me. But its popularity speaks to the kinds of people our society is made of.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Diploid]
#6809302 - 04/19/07 03:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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With all elements being equal, these actions are equivalent. I don't see either situation as molestation, however. If the teenage boy or girl was unwilling, then it was rape & should be prosecuted as such. If they were willing, it was sex.
I think that the statutory rape laws are as ridiculous as drug possession laws. Post-pubescent humans are not children. 
Quote:
If a molested kid is told "Well, uncle Fred is sick and we've made sure he'll never do that to you again. Now run along and play", I think he/she will mostly forget the incident.
Hmmm...not very likely. A forced sexual experience is pretty unforgettable, especially if your parents are that flippant about it. This sounds like a double betrayal of trust, and would be more likely to compound the trauma.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Diploid]
#6809307 - 04/19/07 03:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think it's weird because a 20something guy wanting to have sex with a post menopausal 80 year old woman with dentures doesn't compute for me.
Oral sex is much, much safer for the guy. 
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Diploid]
#6809309 - 04/19/07 03:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
If a molested kid is told "Well, uncle Fred is sick and we've made sure he'll never do that to you again. Now run along and play", I think he/she will mostly forget the incident.
What do you think?
I think you have a very naive and ignorant opinion... and I want to punch you in the face. I have extremely close friends and family members who are still experiencing problems because of childhood abuse. If you saw how devistating molestation was to a person's psyche, especially the maleable mind of a child, I doubt you would come to such a callous conclusion.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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I want to punch you in the face
Wow. We're just talking.
I think you have issues...
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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DrCamacho89
Mazel Tuff
Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1,981
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: Veritas]
#6809321 - 04/19/07 03:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
With all elements being equal, these actions are equivalent. I don't see either situation as molestation, however. If the teenage boy or girl was unwilling, then it was rape & should be prosecuted as such. If they were willing, it was sex.
I think that the statutory rape laws are as ridiculous as drug possession laws.
I believe the statutory rape laws to be dead on, if anything, they should be more serious. It has nothing to do with the physical act. Manipulating an inferior mind and potentially scarring her eternally is a vicious cruel thing to do. If someone is that horny and can't get laid, my advice is to go get a prostitute. At least you can't scar them anymore.
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"The Highways of Life are Paved with Flat Squirrels who Couldn't Make Up Their Minds"
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Quote:
Now, these two hypothetical situations should be equals, yet our society has perverted their individual value in ways I've described above.
Nobody should be raped, but sexual abuse causes far more trauma for a female than a male (and there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for this.) The two situations are not equal, but the law should treat them as such.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Degrees of Molestation [Re: DrCamacho89]
#6809347 - 04/19/07 03:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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As I said, if the act was non-consensual, and involved a post-pubescent male or female, then it is rape. Rape is illegal, and the perpetrator will be prosecuted.
However, a 14-year-old male or female who consents to having sex is not necessarily more vulnerable to trauma than an adult might be. If we get into the "inferior mind" discussion again (before your time), then we will need to require emotional maturity and/or intelligence testing before allowing any human to date.
Teenagers are young adults, not children, and I say this as the mother of an almost 14-year-old boy.
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