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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks
    #6795350 - 04/16/07 03:14 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Former intelligence officials confirmed to the Associated Press Monday a Le Monde newspaper report that France's foreign intelligent service had heard about an al Qaeda plot which was "likely to involve a US airplane." The French paper also reported that France informed the Central Intelligence Agency prior to the attacks on September 11, 2001, in which nearly 3,000 were killed.

However, it is uncertain whether the intelligence was alluding to the specific plot hatched on 9/11.

The DGSE external intelligence service wrote a total of nine reports between September 2000 and August 2001 on Al-Qaeda threats against the US and passed all of them on to the Central Intelligence Agency's Paris bureau, the French newspaper reported.

Le Monde based its report on 328 pages of classified documents leaked by DGSE sources, showing that Osama bin Laden's network had been infiltrated by foreign agents long before the September 2001 attacks.

In a file dated January 5, 2001, also seen by AFP, the DGSE said it had learned of a plan to hijack a plane bound for the United States from Frankfurt in Germany and take it to Kandahar in Afghanistan.

Le Monde said that file was passed onto the CIA in January of the same year.

"Pierre-Antoine Lorenzi, the former chief of staff for the agency's director at the time, said he remembered the note and that it mentioned only the vague outlines of a hijacking plot — nothing that foreshadowed the scale of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks," the AP reports.

The former French intelligence official told the AP, "It wasn't about a specific airline or a specific day, it was not a precise plot. It was a note that said, 'They are preparing a plot to hijack an airplane, and they have cited several companies.'"




Quote:

A 2004 report by the US Congress on the events leading up to September 11 highlighted failures by US intelligence services to gather and share information that might have helped prevent the attacks.

But Le Monde said no mention was made in that report of the information that the DGSE passed on to the CIA in early 2001.

Le Monde said sources close to the DGSE said the agency had as early as 1995 set up a cell to watch bin Laden.

On September 11, 2001, 19 men, mostly Saudi nationals, hijacked four airliners in the United States.

They crashed two of them into the World Trade Center in New York, which caused the centre's twin towers to collapse, and a third into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the US Defense Department in Washington.

The fourth plane crashed into a field in Pennsylvania after passengers tried to retake control of the aircraft.




Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks

=)


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6795573 - 04/16/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


However, it is uncertain whether the intelligence was alluding to the specific plot hatched on 9/11.






--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6795637 - 04/16/07 04:56 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)
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And you waited six years to tell us this?

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6795838 - 04/16/07 05:47 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:


However, it is uncertain whether the intelligence was alluding to the specific plot hatched on 9/11.









I suppose the warnings may not have been been exact, however they did present information it would have been prudent to follow up on:

Quote:

It was a note that said, 'They are preparing a plot to hijack an airplane, and they have cited several companies.'"




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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (04/16/07 05:48 PM)

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Offlineelmanimal
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6799988 - 04/17/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:


However, it is uncertain whether the intelligence was alluding to the specific plot hatched on 9/11.









Dont you think this information would have cued the US to be on some sort of alert, i.e. have some fighters prepared; on call?


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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, only then will there be peace - Jimi Hendrix

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: elmanimal]
    #6800023 - 04/17/07 02:33 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

So, which is it? Are we to be perpetually on a state of heightened alert because of nebulous intelligence? or are we to be cowering behind a state of heightened alert because we are a fearful people afraid of the might of a gang of disaffected assholes? or are we to make reasonable assessments of the threat level and our ability to respond and just live our lives with a certain degree of risk from criminal fuckwads? That there can never be a 100% safety from?

French intelligence? Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one


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Offlineelmanimal
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6800988 - 04/17/07 06:27 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
French intelligence? Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one




Yet, apparently it was better than ours.

We as a people should not be scared because we should have some type of air defense system to keep things like this from happening.

And we do! They noticed when Payne Stewart went off course.

They were busy performing drills that day that simulated a terrorist flying airplanes into a building and


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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, only then will there be peace - Jimi Hendrix

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: elmanimal]
    #6800996 - 04/17/07 06:30 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Actually, it wasn't. We had the same useless information.


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6802148 - 04/17/07 11:01 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
or are we to make reasonable assessments of the threat level




I think the problem with our intelligence agencies is that they do not make reasonable assessments.


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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OfflineViveka
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6802182 - 04/17/07 11:10 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Oh well then I just cannot understand why the U.S. did not just stop all international and domestic flights for good, right then and there. How could those bastards ever let a plane into the sky again after receiving intelligence like that?

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: Viveka]
    #6802218 - 04/17/07 11:16 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

"A 2004 report by the US Congress on the events leading up to September 11 highlighted failures by US intelligence services to gather and share information that might have helped prevent the attacks."


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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OfflineEsKregg
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6803989 - 04/18/07 11:24 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

We do have an air defense system set it place to prevent exactly that sort of thing...just lettin ya'll know.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: EsKregg]
    #6804119 - 04/18/07 11:57 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

You mean like shooting a jet airliner out of the sky over the largest urban metropolis in the country?

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OfflineNephlyte
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: Viveka]
    #6805171 - 04/18/07 04:27 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Viveka said:
Oh well then I just cannot understand why the U.S. did not just stop all international and domestic flights for good, right then and there. How could those bastards ever let a plane into the sky again after receiving intelligence like that?




Also we should've arrested all the muslims(arab and non arab) in the country immediately, as they may have something to do with it, maybe.

I'm being sarcastic of course. You can't just ground all planes instantly when you get an abiguous report on hijacked planes. You have to balance freedom and security somewhere.

BTW, this is not a defense for the US gov't (who at least lent a blind eye to 9/11 or at worst were directly responsible for it). I'm just defending this particular statement.


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"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana

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OfflineViveka
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: Nephlyte]
    #6805252 - 04/18/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You can't just ground all planes instantly when you get an abiguous report on hijacked planes.



You would if you were really serious about preventing people from ever having to experience any kind of suffering ever. Basically, you are a murderer.

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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6806314 - 04/18/07 09:09 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

WARNING AMERICA!


Terrorists want to blow up major landmarks and financial headquarters in the US.































4 years from now people will remember that the Shroomery warned America.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: Nephlyte]
    #6808182 - 04/19/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Nephlyte said:

Also we should've arrested all the muslims(arab and non arab) in the country immediately, as they may have something to do with it, maybe.

I'm being sarcastic of course. You can't just ground all planes instantly when you get an abiguous report on hijacked planes. You have to balance freedom and security somewhere.

BTW, this is not a defense for the US gov't (who at least lent a blind eye to 9/11 or at worst were directly responsible for it). I'm just defending this particular statement.




This more or less sums up my feeling on the matter. I dont give any credence the theory that the government knew about the attacks, or perpetrated them, or anything of that nature. I think to say they did is the height of idiocy, and just reflects an inability to comprehend how a small number of untrained people from a country less advanced than yours managed to pull off a plot that required supreme confidence and discipline.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: GabbaDj]
    #6809249 - 04/19/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GabbaDj said:
WARNING AMERICA!


Terrorists want to blow up major landmarks and financial headquarters in the US.































4 years from now people will remember that the Shroomery warned America.




Gabba Dj has just proven himself the equal of the French intelligence services. Congratulations. I think.


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: GabbaDj]
    #6809578 - 04/19/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GabbaDj said:
WARNING AMERICA!


Terrorists want to blow up major landmarks and financial headquarters in the US.




List a specific course of action and specific private companies and you might have a point.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6810802 - 04/19/07 10:28 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Wrong on several points.

Your article mentions that the French Intelligence service indicated the terrorists would hijack an airplane. I'm sorry, but before 9/11, terrorists had often hijacked planes, and such incidents usually ended peacefully, or with the deaths of those onboard the airplane. I do not know of any previous attack that used jumbo jets as guided missles. To say anyone knew this would happen before it did is revisionist history of the worst kind.

And do you know they cited the correct companies? Do you have the actual report? Because the news clipping that you posted states that the report indicated "companies". It most certainly does NOT say that they indicated the actual airlines used in the attack.

And that seems to be a relatively major distinction in your pet theory, no?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6813093 - 04/20/07 01:35 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

And do you know they cited the correct companies? Do you have the actual report? Because the news clipping that you posted states that the report indicated "companies". It most certainly does NOT say that they indicated the actual airlines used in the attack.




Indeed they did.

Quote:

"In early 2000 in Kabul, Afghanistan, bin Laden met with Taliban leaders and members of armed groups from Chechnya and discussed the possibility of hijacking a plane that would take off from Frankfurt, Germany, the note said, citing Uzbek intelligence," the AP relates from the French report. "The note listed potential targets: American Airlines, Delta Airlines, Continental Airlines, United Airlines, Air France and Lufthansa. The list also included a mention of 'US Aero,' but it was unclear exactly what that referred to."

Subsequently, two were "finally chosen by the pirates of the September 11: American Airlines and United Airlines," Le Monde reported.




--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6813192 - 04/20/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Well, no they didn't. The article reports that the intelligence listed 7 airlines. Only 2 were actually used, which was noted as part of an after report. Not useful information.


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6813198 - 04/20/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
2 were actually used




So they did list specific airlines that would be targeted.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6813658 - 04/20/07 06:04 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

No, they listed 7 of the most heavily traveled airlines. Useless info.


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: Report: France warned CIA before 9/11 attacks [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6817578 - 04/22/07 12:25 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

The information could have been used to-

1-Investigate the vulnerabilities of such airlines. Even to this day the security of such airlines are insufficient by many standards (the person's in charge of security at airlines have usually been on the job for less then six months and are often times paid barely more then minimum wage).

2- Warn such airlines directly by forwarding the warning to them. I'm sure they would have liked to have known that agents which infiltrated Al-Qaeda stated that the organization was working on a program which could involve one of their planes. Given such data some of the described airlines may have taken measures of their own to prevent the hijackings.

3- Used the information in conjunction with the data from other intelligence agencies to keep a record of like Al-Qaeda members specifically attending such flights such as the 9/11 perpetrators whom were under investigation by the government and had expired visas. Remember a major criticism of our intelligence agencies with respect to 9/11 is that they failed to communicate between each other properly. Who knows how much data was presented on the likely assault of the WTC by hijacked planes which in isolation would be meaningless but which when corroborated by similar findings in other agencies could have enabled intelligence analysts to develop effective protocols, increased certainty on the specific course of action taken by Al-Qaeda insurgents and more specific lines of investigation.

4- Used to investigate what correctable vulnerabilities the WTC itself had to such an attack, and the impact of such an attack on the public, and local emergency response units. For example- an evacuation plan may have been useful in saving lives of those at the WTC and training for firefighters in case of such an emergency could have been suggested.

5- Presented as a warning to relevant persons in the WTC. I'm sure like the above airlines, officials and concerned citizens themselves would have liked to have been aware of the warning from French intelligence officers who had infiltrated the Al-Qaeda organization.

Seeing as an attempt to destroy the world trade center had already occurred the Intelligence Agencies should have been sensitive on a matter like the above, especially since the intelligence was coming from agents who had infiltrated Al-Qaeda's organization.

Whether you think the Intelligence was useful is not a matter you are qualified to decide so directly. Other factors must be taken into account such as what lines of investigation such information made prudent, whether appropriate private citizens and local officials could have made use of the data, and whether the information if corroborated with intelligence on Al-Qaeda from other sources could have helped prevent the 9/11 attacks.


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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