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 darnold
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 Re: Time Travel  [Re: darnold]
#6787254 - 04/14/07 02:36 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Diploid i reread your statement about the satellites and i understand now. The Time fluctuations have to be compensated for so that the phase of the signals reaching the GPS satellites are accurate. Makes perfect sense.
But did just read through the Twin Paradox article on wiki. You would have to be travelling close to the speed of light for 10 years for there to almost be a 10 years difference on earth when you got back.
Let me also go back and fix a claim that i made. I said that we dont know because we have never gone the speed of light to know if we could really do time travel. I need to mention that i was still referring to time travel to the past. At that point its theoritical we would go into the past but we also dont know what will happen to our energy at those speeds. But yes it is possible to stop time and go into the future which is infact proven by the twin paradox.
This all just made me wonder about planets in our universe or galaxy that might be going the speed of light accelleration slower than our own planet. It would make sense that looking at a planet moving that slow would actually be moving billions of times faster than us. To make this easier lets imagine and pretend that our planet was moving near the speed of light. Wouldnt that mean that viewing another planet that was moving at the speeds of which our planet really does move would be perceived as moving in extremely fast motion? That when we evolved a year on our planet going near the speed of light at the same time on the planet that would be in relation to the speed we currently perceive now would actually evolve maybe a few billion years. So there could be planets moving so much slower than us now that the entire evolution of the planet would be perceived to us as being created and destroyed all in the same second of time.
Catch what im trying to say?
So it would make sense that planets going faster than us are at a disadvantage to evolution compared to the planets going slower than us. If there was a planet exactly similiar to ours that was created at the exact same moment but was also travelling at the same ratio slower to the speed of light then they would actually be billions of years further than we are.
So maybe we should actually be trying to slow down haha.
Danny
Danny
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darnold
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Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787273 - 04/14/07 02:40 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Diploid,
I understand the GPS thing and i know about the time phasing relativity with signals. If you are right under a GPS satellite it would take shorter time for the signal to reach the satellite above you then the satellite that is half way on the other side of the world. I understand perfectly how that works.
Your wrong about the friend dieing right in front of you in a matter of seconds though. If your friend was going to die in 25 years past you would have to go the speed of light for 25 years to see him die in front of you like that. Read it again.
Danny
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darnold
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Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787280 - 04/14/07 02:42 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Sorry to post so many here. So your saying that if i was the person watching my friend leave and he started going the speed of light i would suddenly die in a couple of minutes?
Danny
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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787297 - 04/14/07 02:49 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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The Time fluctuations have to be compensated for so that the phase of the signals reaching the GPS satellites are accurate
The phase changes too, but that's not a reletivistic effect. It's the ACTUAL PASSING OF TIME that is different for the GPS satellite and the GPS receiver.
You would have to be travelling close to the speed of light for 10 years for there to almost be a 10 years difference on earth when you got back.
I'm not sure what this means.
If you travel on a rocket at 99.9999% the speed of light from Earth to Pluto, when you got to Pluto, your watch would say that the trip took exactly 0.42426 seconds. Your twin's watch back on Earth would say that the trip took a little over 5 hours.
Your twin will be five hours older than you at the end of the trip. If you turned around and came back, when you got to Earth, your twin will be 10 hours older than you.
Make the round trip at even closer to the speed of light, and your twin will be dead of old age when you return even though you will have aged less than one second.
The equation that calculates this is pretty simple:
t' = t * sqr[ 1 - (v^2 / c^2) ]
t' is the trip time indicated by your watch
t is the time indicated by your twin's watch
v is the speed of your rocket
c is the speed of light
Plug in the numbers and you can figure out how elderly your twin will be after your 1 second round trip.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
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Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787317 - 04/14/07 02:51 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Sorry to post so many here. So your saying that if i was the person watching my friend leave and he started going the speed of light i would suddenly die in a couple of minutes?
If your friend is going close enough to the speed of light, you would die in what TO YOUR FRIEND SEEMS LIKE A COUPLE OF MINUTES.
To you, time would pass normally and you'd die after 80 or 90 years seemed to have passed FOR YOU.
I'm not making this up. This is plain jane elementary physics.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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darnold
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Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787333 - 04/14/07 02:54 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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I think were both on the right track with this but concept but i might be misunderstanding what your complying. I know for certain however that it is not an instantaneous as your trying to make it seem.
They way i understand it in the type of example you are trying to present is that if i were to right now go the speed of light time for me on earth would stop. If i stayed the speed of light for 5 years and then decided to come back to earth. I would be the exact same age as when i had left but everyone else would be 5 years older. To everyone else i would have only been gone a few seconds.
Danny
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darnold
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Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787350 - 04/14/07 02:56 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Alright here i have some proof for you elementary school physics major.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/hotsciencetwin/
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darnold
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Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787379 - 04/14/07 03:07 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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I will say you were correct in a sense. But like i said its not so instantaneous as you were proposing.
Danny
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Diploid
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Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787415 - 04/14/07 03:17 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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How instantaneous it is depends on how close to the speed of light you travel. If you travel close enough to the speed of light, the effect WILL appear nearly instantaneous.
If you still refuse to accept what has been known for decades, and has been experimentally confirmed, and is even required to make things like GPS work, then I don't know what else to tell ya. 
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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darnold
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Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Diploid]
#6787777 - 04/14/07 04:56 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Well thats funny then that when i set the speed travelled to 99.9% speed of light with the simulation shown off that link i gave you it doesnt happen instantaneously. So maybe it will at speeds of 99.999999999999999% or something like that?
What does travelling near the speed of light have to do with GPS? Im not trying to disprove that Twin Paradox does not exist or that the GPS do not need to compensate for the time differences. infact i am 100% agreeing that your concept is correct. But you are wrong that if i was with a friend and i got a train that went near the speed of light and could still visibly see my friend back at the train station, i would not see him suddenly die within a matter of minutes. Try that simulation out and you will see what i mean.
If have a had twin back on earth that was 25 years old (thus i was 25 years old) and i travelled on a rocket at 99.9 the speed of light to a Proxima Centauri 4.2 light years away (thus taking 4.2 years to reach going the speed of light) and back (a little over 8.4 years total). When i returned to earth i would be 25.33 years old and my twin would be 48.65.
Even if that is slightly rounded, it obviously shows that going the speed of light for only a few minutes looking back i would not see my twin brother suddenly die.
If you can show me a scientific document demonstrating other wise then i will discontinue to accept my believe. But so far you have not shown me any solid proof to what you are saying. Again if you do i will 100% admit that i am wrong and thank you for showing me the correct way of viewing it. You have got to understand that it would be irrational to accept your credibility as proof when im looking at the proof givin to me by PBS Nova. So prove it.
Danny
Edited by darnold (04/14/07 04:58 PM)
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Diploid
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787863 - 04/14/07 05:25 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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So maybe it will at speeds of 99.999999999999999% or something like that?
Exactly.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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darnold
Stranger
Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 37
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787879 - 04/14/07 05:30 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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I was on my way out but my car batteries dead so i cant leave. Thought of some other things to say.
The problem is all youve givin is your opinion and have shown no evidence. You claim that this is elementary and its things that have been known for decades. I have never heard what you are claiming. If its been known for decades surely you can back it up. I have given you my evidence for my opinion, but you have not given me anything but your opinion. So why the hell am i supposed to accept what you say?
Honestly i want you to prove me wrong. I would love to find out that something i thought was true is actually wrong. Theres no other way to get it right. Im assuming that when you set the speed of the rocket on that simulation to 99.9 they are probably referring to as close to the speed of light as you can possibly get. I can imagine what your talking about happening at the speed of light where time and reality ceases to exist and everything would happen at the same time and moment.
But what i am saying is demonstrated in both that simulation and the Twin Paradox theory from wiki.
I could turn around and claim the same thing that what i say is true and i cant believe you are refusing to accept what i know has been known for decades. I can say that as much i want about this subject, but that doesnt mean ive proven it.
Give some evidence buddy.
Danny
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Diploid
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Time Travel [Re: darnold]
#6787891 - 04/14/07 05:34 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Buddy, the simulation you've been playing with runs by graphically applying the equation I showed you ^^^ up there. Plug numbers into the equation and it will give you the same thing your simulation does.
The simulation is limited to 99.99% the speed of light, the equation is not. You have to get a lot closer to 100% in order to see the effect of your aging twin occur nearly instantly.
This isn't a debate. It's common knowledge.
I have nothing else for you.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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darnold
Stranger
Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 37
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Time Travel [Re: Diploid]
#6789111 - 04/14/07 11:16 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Ok ive put some more thought into and i can imagine it happen right at 99.99999999999999% or whatever. I will plug in the number and i will look for more support for what your talking about.
I believe you and im sorry for putting up such a fight about it. I guess i just didnt take into consideration at first how near to the speed of light you were talking about. But i can definately imagine at the point right before hitting the speed of light where that would happen.
I will plug the numbers in and see for myself.
Thanks,
Danny
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