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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY?
    #6788857 - 04/14/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I know everyone doing their due diligence on this board has repeatedly seen the sacred mantra of do-it-yourself Mycology:

THOU SHALT NOT BE UNCLEAN

So, no bullshit, (and acknowledging that cleanliness is always to be striven for):

Do you have a clean room?

Do you spray Oust? Wear a surgical mask? Gloves?

Alcohol/disinfect EVERY surface? Twice? EVERY USE?

160 or 175 degrees?

180+ forever? (pasteurization be damned!; AKA: Universal hater of microbes; or...There ARE NO good microbes)

Or maybe you only wash your hands and hold your breath when spawning your sterilized H-Poo in your garage

Faucet-hot water for your coir only--no nuking?

What about your verm? Do you PC it?

I kinda assume everyone PC's if they're a serious grower... do you?


How clean are you? I know we all try and do our best-- but is anyone ever successful when just using basic cleanliness?


--------------------
I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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Invisiblemusher_420
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: coAsTal]
    #6788898 - 04/14/07 10:02 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

There is no benefit to being more clean then necessary. It wastes your time and money and in some cases can even have a negative effect on your grow (ie toxifying a growing environment with Lysol or sterilizing what should be pasteurized.)

I never use Lysol or oust. I use isopropyl alcohol in a spray bottle to clean surfaces and when aseptic conditions are needed I use my glove box which relies on still air.

people seem to get confused on the difference between sterile and sanitary. Sterile means pressure cooked at 15psi for an appropriate amount of time, depending on what is being sterilized. Flaming a needle or agar work tool is sterilization. Working in front of a proper flow hood is sterile work. Other things like using Alcohol and lysol only keep things sanitary.

Quick work and careful planing are your best friend in this hobby.

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OfflineBlehMaestro
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: musher_420]
    #6788914 - 04/14/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

You have to PC if you're doing anything more than PF-tek..

I use bleach to clean my bathroom before I inoculate.

That's about it...and alcohol to sterilize the needle.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: musher_420]
    #6788940 - 04/14/07 10:15 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/05/15 04:50 PM)

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Offlinemikemushroom
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6789394 - 04/15/07 01:43 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

OUST is fine to use. It is not the same as Lysol.

I found myself with noob paranoia. It really amounted to overkill, but no contams. I stole a large pocketful of 70% alcohol wipes from the hospital the other day. I got about half a box of those cool blue gloves too.:tongue:

MM


--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.

Read his library of books to expand your mind.

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OfflineSalt
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: coAsTal]
    #6789460 - 04/15/07 02:46 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah those blue nitrile gloves? They are real cool, thats all I use. I got some lime green ones from amazon.com for 12 and some change. Box of 50. I was supprised how long a box of 50 is lasting. I still have 1/2 a box. They have some good deals for surgical masks. Alot more comfortable than a dust mask.

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Invisibleagar
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: coAsTal]
    #6789633 - 04/15/07 05:03 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

The cleaner you can do most of the mush/cult process's involved.
The better off you are.
Minimal sanitation usually gets you minimal success.
(quite often utter failure)

There are a LOT of short cuts.
That work sometimes.
But, MOST CERTAINLY NOT, all the time.

In a hobby that REQUIRES at least a modicum of patience.
It seems many RUSH through things.

In mush/cult the better you do things.
Most often get you better results.

Rushing spawn wbs/grain hydration is a mistake.
(like ya, just boil the stuff for a 1/2 hour)

Rushing PC sterilization is a mistake.
(like ya, 45 minutes @ 12 psi will be okay)

Not letting spawn jars cool to room temps is a mistake.
(like ya, they still felt warm, but not real hot when I innoc'ed)

Inoculation should be done as sanitary as possible.
(like ya, I just knock-em up on my dirty kitchen counter)

Proper pasteurization is a necessity.
(like ya, I just bake it in the oven, or nuke the stuff)

Spawning should be done in most sanitary conditions possible.
(like ya, I do it in my dirty kitchen, no mask, gloves, nada)

On & on & on.

Ponder, the bulk of mush/cult posts are about FAILURES.
The reason is their own half/ass way of doing things.

Do it right, most often gets you a mushroom crop.
Doing things half/ass, gets you a crop of MOLD.


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OfflineEraserhead
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: agar]
    #6789663 - 04/15/07 05:54 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Hey, I have a crop of bacteria going right now.... 5 frigging casings all knotted VERY heavily, and ALL aborted, turning to a black sludge.

Not sure if I screwed up with low humidity, or if my ultrasonic was running a tad to much and everything went soggy, but them casings are turning brown on parts and just falling apart, on top of the black layer of sludge on top.

not a pretty site, wish my windows box was working so I could upload some pictures.  I'm working on some archaic Fedora Core 3 system right now.

That's just an addition to growing a crop of mold :thumbup:

I usually keep small clean work to my glovebox until I'm spawning fully colonized rye to 160F pillowcase pasteurized in a roaster oven for a day, drained/cooled overnight, and squeeze tested with gloved hands poo, on my dirty kitchen counter, wearing a surgical mask, and gloves, don't clean my counter, or my gloves, seems to work perfect for me except this time, because I fucked up humidity.  At least I did manage to get 1oz dry off each 12qt casing before the abort and rot started.


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InvisibleSillicybin
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: Eraserhead]
    #6789825 - 04/15/07 08:28 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Fedora Core 3 isn't that bad.... but you are 3 versions behind, I guess. Get 6 and get Webmin installed - it's come a long way.

It's really hard to get a fully colonized casing too wet, unless it didn't colonize the casing layer or the substrate sufficiently before pinning was introduced.

The picture in my sig was a tray that was spawned not on my dirty kitchen counter, but my dirty kitchen FLOOR. The coir was not pasteurized, I didn't wear gloves.... in fact, the coir sat hydrated in open air for 30 minutes after the brick expanded.

Coir is pretty contamination resistant, however, so that can make a difference compared to other bulk substrates.

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OfflineVampireSlayer
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #6789849 - 04/15/07 08:46 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I look back and realize that my recent projects haven't been to clean when done. no wonder why I have been getting contams all the time. Im guilty for not having a very clean work area and a not so clean procedure (don't usually wear gloves, mask when spawning etc). I need to get my act together.


--------------------
I Don't come to fight flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness in high and low places

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Invisibleagar
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #6789855 - 04/15/07 08:52 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The picture in my sig was a tray that was spawned not on my dirty kitchen counter, but my dirty kitchen FLOOR. The coir was not pasteurized, I didn't wear gloves.... in fact, the coir sat hydrated in open air for 30 minutes after the brick expanded.

Coir is pretty contamination resistant, however, so that can make a difference compared to other bulk substrates.




LOL, back in the day, I did the same sort of things.
Doing G2G on a counter top, smoking a blunt & drinking J/D & Pepsi.
Spawning about the same way.
Had good luck doing that the first time, or 2.
The mush/cult God's do that to f**k with you.
Because, usually, the next 99 times all contaminate.

After you have done the same thing 100 times.
I would wager, your contamination rate is higher than 50%.

You got lucky.
I got lucky.

Then, that ended & I learned not to count on luck.
I learned to count on good procedures in sanitary conditions.

Now, my contamination rate, spawn & trays is under 3%.
Do a few thousand jars/bags of spawn & a few hundred trays.
Then, tell me what yours is.


--------------------

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Offlineexagram
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: coAsTal]
    #6789866 - 04/15/07 09:00 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Well, my jars are sterilised in a pressure cooker, inoculated in a clean room (a spare bedroom which is never used, and is cold all year round) that I spray with a disinfectant aerosol. I inoculate using disposable latex gloves on a glass surface cleaned with Dettol solution, flame sterilising the needle and wiping with more Dettol. I almost always inoculate just after I've had a shower, and wear a dust mask and a shower cap (both cleaned with even more Dettol).

After that, the jars are transferred to the septic hellhole that is my room, to colonise. Thank god for the jars. :tongue:


--------------------
Raoul Duke: What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole lifestyle that he helped create - a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the acid culture: the desperate assumption that somebody, or at least some force, is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.

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Invisibleagar
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: exagram]
    #6789878 - 04/15/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Good procedures & sanitation PAYS OFF.

Tray after tray


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #6789880 - 04/15/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Mine is as clean as I can get it. As agar said the cleaner we are the more consistent our success will be. Those who preach that there is no need to be too clean fail to have realized many of us live in high sporeload areas and the fact that their success is more luck than anything. A pro and a novice are only separated by the way they look at this hobby and there sterile culture technique.
Some say no need to keep your fruiting chambers clean well that only works if you have low trich sporeloads and/or plenty of FAE's which is the only reason shrooms grow outdoors in a non-sterile environment they have unlimited FAE and the fact that they have natural occurring microbe buddies working with them. Indoors trich can easily raise it's ugly head as well as other contams which can occur in the casing layer and the fruitbodies themselves. Bottom line keep it as clean as you can indoors and you will be fine tuning your growing skills even more like a pro. The key word here is CONSISTENCY in your sterile culture technique will result in CONSISTANT prolific yields.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: agar]
    #6789934 - 04/15/07 09:38 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/05/15 04:51 PM)

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Invisiblejellyfish


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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: hyphae]
    #6789936 - 04/15/07 09:39 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I use my dirty old kitchen which I clean down with bleach and spray lysol. I work underneath the fan hood that exhausts to outside and clean my gloves with iso and wear a mask. I clean my syringe after every jar with alcohal and do not flame as last time I did that with alcohal soaked gloves I nearly killed myself (idiot). I'm still very new to the process and the only time I had a bad problem with contams was in a glove box one day when I had the flu. It was pf tek too and every last jar reaked of garbage. I find pasturization hard becaause I do it in hot water and it's hard to keep the temp right so I guess I'll switch to using an oven.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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--- [Re: jellyfish]
    #6789950 - 04/15/07 09:49 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/05/15 04:51 PM)

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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6789956 - 04/15/07 09:53 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

one of the best things you can do is to grow out of a small closet with vinly or wood floors no carpet. easy to sterilize and no air movement. automate ur grow chamber so you don't have to open as frequently.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: jellyfish]
    #6789975 - 04/15/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I work underneath the fan hood that exhausts to outside and clean my gloves with iso and wear a mask.



That's a horrible place to work because the fan creates drafts that draw contaminants along with air into your work area. Do sterile work in STILL air, not moving air.

Kitchens are the worst possible place to work. There is more fecal bacteria floating around a kitchen than in the bathroom right after you take a dump.

I've noticed the new growers that are saying it's ok to be nasty are also buying syringes from vendors so have their sterile lab work already done by someone else. That isn't mycology folks. When you learn to harvest a crop, take prints, germinate spores on agar, isolate strains, and produce a killer fruiting strain that blows you away with its potency, you'll understand what I mean.

Lab work isn't supposed to be clean. It's supposed to be laboratory sterile. No cut corners. When it comes to spawning a bulk substrate, who gives a shit if you pick your nose while working? It doesn't matter. If the grains were properly prepared and colonized in sterile conditions to full colonization, you can spawn to bulk outdoors if you want to. When you go to the Stamets seminars, you'll see Paul build a straw log or other project outside in the open air and it works fine. However, you can bet your ass the spawn wasn't produced outdoors in the open air.

Learn to be sterile where sterility is called for, and be clean where being clean is called for and you'll be fine. I live in a 40 year old condo building in a very damp climate and my entire building is infested with black mold, and it has wall to wall carpeting. It's unhealthy for us and we're trying to sell the damn thing so we can move, but every project I've done has been done in this mold infested place, yet I can grow successfully by following the advice given above, and even filmed my video DVD here, doing lab work and growing a dozen or more species from spores to the fruiting/harvest stage. Several of my terrariums sit within 18" of a wall that has black mold growing on it, yet it NEVER grows on my cakes.

For sterile work, surgical gloves are a must, surgical mask is a must(dust masks are for carpenters, not surgeons), a still air glovebox or laminar flow hood is a must, A closed, draft free room is a must especially if you're using a flowhood, and spray the air with oust at least two or three times before starting the flowhood. I let the flowhood run for at least an hour in that closed and oust sprayed room before beginning work, which gives me time to shower, wash my hair and brush my teeth, use mouthwash, etc.

Once your spawn jars are fully colonized, you can scratch your butt while you inoculate the coir if you want. Bacteria isn't a contaminant of bulk substrates. The important thing is to learn when it's important to be sterile. If someone else is doing your sterile work for you, then don't brag about how dirty you can be and get away with it. Anybody can be dirty and get away with it under those conditions.
RR


--------------------
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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineOatman2000
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Re: Seriously: How CLEAN is your cultivation process...REALLY? [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #6789983 - 04/15/07 10:10 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

i only use gloves for spawning.

everything else has it's own sanatary container. my contam ratio is very minimul. Liquid Culture has alot to do with my success.

also sticking to the tek, and (only do a few shortcuts) :rolleyes:


--------------------
Spawning to COIR
:thumbup:  My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
----------------------------

4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine

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