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InvisibleNotForIngestion
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Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s
    #6782022 - 04/13/07 05:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Another day another n00b stressing.
So here's the run down on whats happening.
This is my first time and I am trying a 50/50 casing method.
After 3 days of MYC. growth I patched the higher areas with more casing. Now 4th day and I can see small bits of MYC growing growing up to the casing layer. All looks well. But this morning when I woke up there has been either Cob Web mold attack or is it just MYC growing to produce pins.

So is this cob web or new growth of a good nature.
If it is cob web I need to spray it lightly with h202 Water?
Thanks for everyones time in advance.
Oh yeah careful its Friday the 13th.


--------------------
-NFI-


Edited by NotForIngestion (07/03/07 10:48 PM)

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6782030 - 04/13/07 05:48 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Did you pasteurize or sterilize mix? That is cobweb BTW you can also see the myc poking through to compare the difference in growth. Yes knock it down with 3% h2o2 a few times then use clean water after that. I would mist all casings at the same time with the peroxide. GL


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
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Offlineexagram
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6782036 - 04/13/07 05:52 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well, from the photo, the colour looks fine, but from the way you say it just appeared overnight like that, I'd be wary. If it is a contamination, you might consider putting a little more lime (or whatever you used to pH balance the casing layer, assuming you used peat moss) into your mix - moulds like acidic conditions.


--------------------
Raoul Duke: What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole lifestyle that he helped create - a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the acid culture: the desperate assumption that somebody, or at least some force, is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.

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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6782038 - 04/13/07 05:54 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Follow Hyphae's ^^directions^^.
Cause ya got some of both.

This is without cobweb.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: exagram]
    #6782040 - 04/13/07 05:56 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

exagram said:
Well, from the photo, the colour looks fine, but from the way you say it just appeared overnight like that, I'd be wary. If it is a contamination, you might consider putting a little more lime (or whatever you used to pH balance the casing layer, assuming you used peat moss) into your mix - moulds like acidic conditions.




It's some cobweb & some myc. Peroxide will handle it.


--------------------

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InvisibleNotForIngestion
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: agar]
    #6782052 - 04/13/07 06:10 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks everybody. Ok so I've misted slightly with 3% H202.
I did pasteurize my casing layer for 20 minutes at 200 degrees.
  • First 3 days of Casing was great. Plenty of MYC growth in several places. Then I patched to cover high spot.
  • I believe when I patched this casing my "PATCH" material may have been a tab to wet and caused the cob web.

=======
How many times/days should I mist with H202 or just until the MYC is well established underneath?
=======


--------------------
-NFI-


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6782070 - 04/13/07 06:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Next time pasteurize @ 170F & go for at least an hour.
Internal temp of casing material is what counts.
Not the exterior temp.

Wise to jar up & seal some fresh prepared casing mix.
In sanitized quart jars, or plastic bags.
So, you patch with the same thing, you started with.


--------------------

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InvisibleNotForIngestion
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: agar]
    #6782075 - 04/13/07 06:24 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

How many times/days should I mist with H202 or just until the MYC is well established underneath?


--------------------
-NFI-


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6782084 - 04/13/07 06:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

About 3 times.
Like twice 8 hours apart.
Then, another shot the following day.


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InvisibleNotForIngestion
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6782096 - 04/13/07 06:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Here's another question:

  • The MYC growth coming from underneath the casing layer is not colonizing the 50/50, it's just breaking through it and using it as if it were studs in a wall for load bearing support?
  • Spawning is basically casing colonized substrate with a "Nutritive" material and letting it fully colonize? And then using spawn to inoculate uncolonized substrates and/or casing spawn to fruit.
  • How long does it take to destroy cob web with H202?
  • Should I move the one cob web infested casing out of the FC?

Edited by NotForIngestion (07/03/07 10:51 PM)

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InvisibleNotForIngestion
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6782257 - 04/13/07 08:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not sure I have cob web (BUT STILL VERY POSSIBLY).
I have followed the above H202 3% Direct spray method and I did not see immediate melting of the cobweb. I gave a very very fine misting to the 3 trays to aid off spread.

Quote:

RR: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5752874

Peroxide can cause minor damage, but cobweb will totally destroy it if not contained. Spray a small section of what you suspect is cobweb with 3% peroxide straight from the bottle. If it melts and disappears on contact, it was cobweb(mushroom mycelium might foam up a bit, but won't disappear). If it was cobweb, you then need to spray down the whole casing layer because cobweb spreads by breaking off tiny mycelial fibers and releasing them to the air currents. You'll need to spray the whole thing to contain the mold. After spraying, you need to air it out by fanning well until the peroxide is dry. You can follow that a few minutes later with a plain water mist and again fan well afterward.
RR




I will be patient now and post up some pictures later to give an update on growth of MYC and hopefully the a halt in Cobweb growth.

Thanks


--------------------
-NFI-


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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6782288 - 04/13/07 08:33 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If that cobweb looking stuff did not melt away.
When you misted it with peroxide.
It may be something FAR worse than cobweb.
As-in some other contaminate mold mycelium.

Strange.
Because it looks to fuzzy to be mushroom myc.


--------------------

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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: agar]
    #6782461 - 04/13/07 09:51 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It's cobweb and it requires a serious dousing, not just a light misting. Soak the hell out of the casing layer. When you're told to use 3% peroxide, bear in mind that is the strength it's sold at over the counter in the US, so don't dilute it. Many new growers think they're supposed to dilute what they buy with 97% water and that's incorrect. Use the stuff from the drug or grocery store full strength and douse that stuff down three times as said above.
RR


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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6782559 - 04/13/07 10:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
It's cobweb and it requires a serious dousing, not just a light misting. Soak the hell out of the casing layer. When you're told to use 3% peroxide, bear in mind that is the strength it's sold at over the counter in the US, so don't dilute it. Many new growers think they're supposed to dilute what they buy with 97% water and that's incorrect. Use the stuff from the drug or grocery store full strength and douse that stuff down three times as said above.
RR




RR always brings light where he goes...good to know sir..

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6782629 - 04/13/07 10:51 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yeah... after the cleansing rain, some of the myc. will die, but it will recover nicely and bring its friends... do it do it.... :smile:

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6783790 - 04/13/07 04:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
It's cobweb and it requires a serious dousing, not just a light misting. Soak the hell out of the casing layer. When you're told to use 3% peroxide, bear in mind that is the strength it's sold at over the counter in the US, so don't dilute it. Many new growers think they're supposed to dilute what they buy with 97% water and that's incorrect. Use the stuff from the drug or grocery store full strength and douse that stuff down three times as said above.
RR



Thanks for putting it in terms that get the point across! Is it just me or am I assuming too much from people here?


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: hyphae]
    #6783874 - 04/13/07 04:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
It's cobweb and it requires a serious dousing, not just a light misting. Soak the hell out of the casing layer. When you're told to use 3% peroxide, bear in mind that is the strength it's sold at over the counter in the US, so don't dilute it. Many new growers think they're supposed to dilute what they buy with 97% water and that's incorrect. Use the stuff from the drug or grocery store full strength and douse that stuff down three times as said above.
RR



Thanks for putting it in terms that get the point across! Is it just me or am I assuming too much from people here?




It's just certain things, and those things have huge misconceptions that have been spreading around for a long time now. This one, for example, many many teks say to dilute the store bough H2O2.

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: BlehMaestro]
    #6785645 - 04/14/07 01:30 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

BlehMaestro said:
Quote:

hyphae said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
It's cobweb and it requires a serious dousing, not just a light misting. Soak the hell out of the casing layer. When you're told to use 3% peroxide, bear in mind that is the strength it's sold at over the counter in the US, so don't dilute it. Many new growers think they're supposed to dilute what they buy with 97% water and that's incorrect. Use the stuff from the drug or grocery store full strength and douse that stuff down three times as said above.
RR



Thanks for putting it in terms that get the point across! Is it just me or am I assuming too much from people here?




It's just certain things, and those things have huge misconceptions that have been spreading around for a long time now. This one, for example, many many teks say to dilute the store bough H2O2.




It all depends on what your buying. Please any questions just ask, PM me I'll give you my answer and exactly why it is. Understand many misinformed people use a diluted 3% peroxide solution on a regular basis as a precautionary measure WRONG! We all need to be on the same page here. I mean no dissing here if you want to listen listen if not thats your decisions. GL


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleNotForIngestion
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: hyphae]
    #6785950 - 04/14/07 05:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Good Morning to the Fellow Shroomery Guild.
Updates: Since Yesterday
  • Turns out the H202 I was using was expired.
  • Bought a new bottle and gave casing a thorough spraying.
  • Like magic the H202 simply melts away on contact as stated above.
  • MYC growth rate is standard. Two days after patching.


So over night I let the cobweb dry a bit and then I sprayed it again this morning with Full Strength 3% H202.

  • Should I try and scrape off the little bit that is left or will the MYC grow up through it without any fuss?

Thanks Everybody

Edited by NotForIngestion (07/03/07 10:51 PM)

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6786260 - 04/14/07 08:54 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I would carefully remove it. GL bro


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleNotForIngestion
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: hyphae]
    #6789750 - 04/15/07 07:27 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

DAY 6 Casing - 3rd Day after Patching


And another great morning to all.
I have some new photos of the casings a day later after clearing off the nasty Cobweb.

These are great comparison shots for one days growth.
4-14-07:thumbup:

4-15-07


More Photos From Today







Current casing is Very Simple 50/50 Non-Modified.
  • Jiffy-Mix (Peat with Lime already added for PH Balance)
  • Medium-Coarseness Horticulture Grade Vermiculite 
  • Tap Water
  • Pasteurized (Not Long Enough)for 20 minutes @ 200 degrees
  • Pasteurization needed as stated above by: "Agar" Pasteurize: 1 hour @ 170 degrees.


A quick question for more experienced cultivators:
  • During Fruiting, are temperature fluctuations throughout the day (Never exceeding the LOW and HIGH Thresholds) more beneficial and natural to the fruit. It seems in nature the temps dip down at night giving off pinning triggers like crazy (Wind, Light on - Light Off, and a Drop in Temperature)


Mentioning this because my FC stays at about 74-78 degrees during the day, and a little less like 72 at night some times.

Are the cooler nights:
  • "Not a Likely Variable"
  • "More Natural and Beneficial for Pinning"

Any Estimates On

?? WHEN PINNING WILL BEGIN ??


--------------------
-NFI-


Edited by NotForIngestion (04/15/07 11:21 AM)

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InvisibleNotForIngestion
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6789793 - 04/15/07 08:00 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well this link: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6695834/an/0/page/0
to RR's "What Conditions Trigger Pinning" post answers my question.

Quote:

RR: I have seen no correlation with temperature drop whatsoever. In the summer, my growing chambers are 10 or more degrees warmer than the open shelves I incubate on due to the heating effects of the lights. Even with a temperature increase, I still get wall to wall pinsets, so I don't consider temp drop relevant at all to tropical species. Other growers disagree of course, but that's just my observation after many years.




After reading this I agree that a fluctuation of the temperature dropping lower than normal does not benefit pinning.
Possibly slowing down growth?


--------------------
-NFI-


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6790076 - 04/15/07 11:01 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NotForIngestion said:
Well this link: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6695834/an/0/page/0
to RR's "What Conditions Trigger Pinning" post answers my question.

Quote:

RR: I have seen no correlation with temperature drop whatsoever. In the summer, my growing chambers are 10 or more degrees warmer than the open shelves I incubate on due to the heating effects of the lights. Even with a temperature increase, I still get wall to wall pinsets, so I don't consider temp drop relevant at all to tropical species. Other growers disagree of course, but that's just my observation after many years.




After reading this I agree that a fluctuation of the temperature dropping lower than normal does not benefit pinning.
Possibly slowing down growth?



True, there are certainly optimal temps for both vegetative growth as well as generative (fruiting) growth in which growth is fastest but it's all relative "growth vs. temp" so it not a big deal overall. There are other more important factors in getting a prolific pinset consistantly. I've seen pinset so tight that fruits were smaller than one would like due to nutrient demand placed upon the substrate and I've also seen prolific pinsets bolt all at once thus aborting the whole pinset/crop, so there can certainly be a too prolific pinset that results in less than desirable cropping. Bottom line try for optimal if you can, if you can't don't sweat it unless your parameters are too far out of range of course.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleNotForIngestion
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Re: Friday the 13th Casing Layer ?s [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6808782 - 04/19/07 01:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

-This will be my final progressive posting on this particular thread (Except for Questions, Answers, and Comments).-


After 5 days I've had great success reading, thinking, and being patient with my first ever casing and experimenting all together.
Soon I'll start another thread off where this one ends so you can see the experiment as it progress further.
I'll post a Link to the new thread when available.

Gulf Coast Strain
  • Started from a spore syringe.
  • Experimental WBS, BRF, Verm Substrate
  • Cased with Jiffy-Mix and Verm
  • Temps 72-76 degrees
  • RH 80%-90%


Day 1 of Pinning

Day 2 of Pinning


Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated and very beneficial.
Thanks Everybody

NFI


--------------------
-NFI-


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