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Offlinefalcon
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Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata.
    #6772784 - 04/11/07 12:01 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Shroomydan posted in this thread, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6692345/an/0/page/1

Quote:



Bluefoot is not Psilocybe caerulipes. MJshroomer forwarded some samples on to Dr. Gaston Guzman for me, and Guzman identified them as Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. The following is from Guzman's email to me.



Quote:



I am sorry...It is not a new species. Certainly it is a rare species and a new record but not a new species. My colleague and me were confused at first with your material, because another Psilocybe that we recently studied from Pennsylvania and we described as a new species...when I compared your mushroom with that of Pennsylvania, I can not find differences among them. Then your material is not a new species, but it is the first record... from Ohio and West Virginia.

The Pennsylvania mushroom is Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, that soon will be published.


Best regards

Dr. Gaston Guzman

Emeritus Research and

Head of the Fungus Collection of

Instituto de Ecologia










I'm closing the original thread as the original poster asked a question that was not allowed by the forum rules. I should have made the post I am making now
instead of responding to Shroomydan.

The renaming of Psilocybe caerulipes by Guzman, when I initially saw this it made me angry and amused.

Now I am pretty much amused. The descriptions of caerulipes in Lincoff's National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Mushrooms and Stamets' Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World  match the mushroom that Shroomydan found very well.

Shroomydan said:

Quote:

Guzman's criterion for distinguishing these from P. caerulipes is the presences of an annulus, however, as you know, the annulus usually only persists for a few hours.





:wink::smirk: So now depending on what time you find the mushroom, before or after the veil has disappeared will determine whether it is Psilocybe caerulipes or
Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. :lol:


Edited by falcon (04/11/07 12:15 AM)


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6772824 - 04/11/07 12:09 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

:lol: :shrug:


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6772861 - 04/11/07 12:16 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Ugh.... Bad science.  :frown:


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: CureCat]
    #6772888 - 04/11/07 12:22 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

They just want to feel like they had discovered a new species.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: CureCat]
    #6772889 - 04/11/07 12:22 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, bad science, but a wonderful story. :tongue:


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Offline2859558484
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6772913 - 04/11/07 12:27 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Ive always been skeptical about Guzman's new species. Psilocybe subcubensis, and now this. haha. Also the different classifications of pan cyans. Like pan tropocalis.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6772954 - 04/11/07 12:35 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

They just want to feel like they had discovered a new species.

I wish I had thought of it, this makes bluefoot extra special.

BTW Here is a post with the best description of habitat for Bluefoot that I've seen anywhere: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4173375#Post4173375

the only things that I would add is to look for large stands of Sycamore, and keep and eye out for large stands of Japanese Knotweed in the habitat that Rick D James describes.


Edited by falcon (04/11/07 12:39 AM)


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6772972 - 04/11/07 12:38 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

aint no reason to get smart with me

hey do blue foots grow on the gulf coast?


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6773007 - 04/11/07 12:46 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

:shrug: Close relative of bluefoot was found pretty close to the gulf:
Psilocybe caerulescens was found in 1923 in Montgomery Alabama
by a guy named Murrill.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773053 - 04/11/07 12:55 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

haha haha hahhahaha your funny. I'm talking deep like down.


Edited by falcon (04/11/07 01:16 AM)


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6773095 - 04/11/07 01:05 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

:lol:


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773122 - 04/11/07 01:10 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

i aint got any reason to look for them anyhow i was just wondering to get an idea of how widespread they are.
thats bull shit they arrested that many people over some shrooms.

you are laughin too hard, what the hells so funny. im on the good end of a bottle of jd so if you are fuckin with me, aint not point to it right now cause i done care.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6773139 - 04/11/07 01:15 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not fucking with you, you just asked for a specific location and I'm going to delete it.

The range is Northeastern United States and Mexico, ummm, they were found by Guzman a couple of times in Mexico. So there is a chance that they could be found on the Gulf Coast.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773163 - 04/11/07 01:19 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

but didnt we already decide guzman dont know what hes talkinbout?


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6773264 - 04/11/07 01:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, pretty much, my advice would be to look for them anywhere you find a large stand of Sycamores, not Sycamores that are planted in some city park, but ones that are growing in the wild, that seeded themselves.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773721 - 04/11/07 03:45 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Faslcon,

Dr. Guzmán did not rename Psilocybe caerulipes as Psilocybe ovoideocystidia mushroom.

Shroomy Dan;s species is Psilocybe ovoideocystidia.

And the taxonomic paper for that species is not written by Dr. Guzmán.

And Psilocybe caerulipes, is a separate species from Psilocybe ovoideocystidia.

Taking comments from Dr. Guzmán's letter and reinventing them into your own interpretation is incorrect.

mj


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: 2859558484]
    #6773747 - 04/11/07 04:02 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Wowithc, you are misinformed.

you said
Quote:

I've always been skeptical about Guzman's new species. Psilocybe subcubensis, and now this. haha. Also the different classifications of pan cyans. Like pan tropocalis.




If you do not go to college and study mycology then please do not offer opinions for which you have no knowledge of.

Dr. Guzmán published the paper on the taxonomy of psilocyeb subcuensis, most likelyu before you were born.

Mycotaxon vol 7:page 248 in 1978. 30 years ago.

And regarding the other half of your statement, Dr. Guzmán wrote the Genus Psilocybe. Not the Panaeolus. the two Monographs, most fortunatley were written by Dr. Gyorgy-Miklos O'lah of the Universite Laval in 1961, POublsihed only in French and Dr, Ewald Gerhardt, in 2000 in Germanm, thus keeping the knowledge from anyone who does not speak those languages. To say that what they wrote bothers you. Hahaha.

Sorry.

mj

This whole thread is a farce and most of the posts by both Falcon and Psychoslut are misinformation and can easily be debunk.

mj


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6773786 - 04/11/07 04:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Psychoslut and Falcon. I wonder what the fuck your credentials are.

Dr. Guzmán's speaks for himself.

Quote:

Gastón Guzmán is a Mexican mycologist, co-founder and past President of the Mexican Mycological Society. Guzmán has spent more than 44 years studying mushrooms, working mainly in taxonomy, ecology and ethnomycology. He presently works at the Instituto de Ecología, Xalapa, Veracruz, México, where he founded the Mycology Department in 1989.

Guzmán has published more than 350 papers on fungi and 8 books. His first book, published in 1977 was the first mushroom field guide published in Mexico. In 1983 Cramer published his monograph on Psilocybe (now out of print): The Genus Psilocybe: A Systematic Revision of the Known Species Including the History, Distribution and Chemistry of the Hallucinogenic Species . In 1995 Cramer also published a supplement to that monograph. Guzmán had described more than one hundred new species of Psilocybe throughout the world. His most recent book, published in 1997, is a checklist of Spanish names for mushroom species of Latin American mushrooms, a monumental work covering more than 5,500 common names with scientific equivalents ( over 1600 species). Guzmán began his first studies in 1955 and 1957 became field assistant to Rolf Singer, then investigating the hallucinogenic fungi of México. In an obscure village of southern México, Guzmán attended an Indian ceremony where he partook of the visionary mushroom (Psilocybe cubensis).

Since 1995 and 1997 Guzmán has been honored as an Emeritus National Research Fellow in Mexico and an Emeritus Research Fellow of his Institution. Guzmán's current work is A Worldwide Geographical Distribution of the Neurotropic Fungi, Analysis and Discussion, a listing all of the known psychoactive species (218 and counting) and their worldwide distribution, co authored with John W. Allen and Jochen Gartz. This large monograph will appear in the Italian Journal Annal des Musei Civici de Rovereto. Guzmán is considered to be the leading authority on the taxonomy of the Mexican entheogenic mushrooms.




Quit spreading misinformation on the site.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773797 - 04/11/07 04:51 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
:shrug: Close relative of bluefoot was found pretty close to the gulf:
Psilocybe caerulescens was found in 1923 in Montgomery Alabama
by a guy named Murrill.




Again you do not know what you are talking about.

P. caerulipes was first reported in Hutnsville, Alabama, 1924 and was never found in that state since.

however, P. caerulescens is a mushroom in Mexico known as the Derrumbe (landslide mushroom), it grows alongside of sugarcane fields and is one the primary mushrooms used in ritual healing and curing ceremonies in Oaxaca, Mexico. IT is also the mushroom that Timothy Leary first ate in Cuernavaca, Mexico in 1960 and that was what Leary made world famous from his research with Harvard University.

In the 1990s, a few specimens were recorded from Mississippi.  And again it is rare in America.

Another comment:

Quote:

Paul Stamets mentions in his field guide to Psilocybine Mushrooms
of the World that R. Gordon Wasson first ate 13 pairs of this mushroom during
his initial velada with Maria Sabina. However, it was actually seven pairs of mushrooms.
Timothy Leary also consumed this mushroom in 1960 in Cuernavaca, Mexico.
He was given 7 specimens of P. caerulescens mushrooms by the anthropologist Frank Baron.
This species was first discovered and identified from Huntsville, Alabama in 1924 by the mycologist Murrill and never seen there again since.

Later in the late 1950s, R. Gordon Wasson and Roger Heim identified it as the Derumbe (Landslide) mushroom of the Mazatec Indians.  this was the shroom eaten by Dr,. Wasson and described in the May 13, 1957 issue of Life magazine.

It was observed in Oaxaca, Mexico fruiting from sugar cane mulch and landslide areas along sugar cane roads.
Many Identification guides list this species as occurring in the southeast states of Mississippi to Georgia and
Florida.




And again, Falcon spreading misinformation.

The mushroom was discovered in Huntsville, Alabama in 1924.

Not in Montgomery in 1923 as you posted.

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (04/12/07 03:54 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773806 - 04/11/07 05:00 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Falcon said about P. caerulescens>
Quote:

by a guy named Murrill.
Quote:



Here are Dr. Murrill's credentials.

Quote:


Archives and Manuscript Collections

Records of the Herbarium (RG4)
WILLIAM ALPHONSO MURRILL RECORDS (1903-1957)
2.6 linear feet (4 boxes)

BIOGRAPHICAL NOTE

William Alphonso Murrill (1869-1957) was a mycologist, taxonomist, writer, and authority on the fleshy fungi (Basidiomycetes). Born October 13, 1869, near Lynchburg, Virginia, he gained a B.S. degree (1887) from the Virginia Agricultural and Mechanical College; B.S. (1889), B.A. (1890), and M.A. (1891) degrees from Randolph Macon College; and a Ph.D. (1897) from Cornell University. He taught biology for four years at DeWitt Clinton High School in New York City and in 1904 began his career with The New York Botanical Garden as Assistant Curator, succeeding Franklin S. Earle as staff mycologist. From 1909 to 1919 he acted as Assistant Director and became Curator and Supervisor of Public Instruction from 1919 to 1924.

Murrill collected over 70,000 specimens of fungi in North and South America, Mexico, and the Caribbean, of which The New York Botanical Garden Cryptogamic Herbarium holds about 14,000 specimens, including more than 1,700 type specimens. Using the American Code of nomenclature Murrill identified and described many new genera and species and made nomenclatural revisions of existing taxa that were variously criticized and praised by American mycologists. On at least four occasions, Murrill traveled to England, France, Italy, Germany, and Sweden to study type specimens in European herbaria. He identified the pathogenic fungus Diaporthe [Cryphonectria] parasitica that causes Chestnut blight.

Murrill published important monographs on hymenomycetes, and over five hundred scientific articles on a wide range of botanical subjects. His major works include a series on the Polyporaceae in the Bulletin of the Torrey Botanical Club (1902-06), and five monographs on the Boletaceae and Polyporaceae in 1914-15. He lectured widely and wrote autobiographical pieces and popular books on natural science for young adults. Murrill founded and served as editor of Mycologia (1909-1924) and the Journal of the NYBG (1906-1908), and was a contributor to North American Flora. In 1924 he retired both from the Garden and from professional life altogether. During the 1930's he became associated with the University of Florida in Gainesville, where he resumed mycological study and publication until his death in 1957.




mj


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6774059 - 04/11/07 09:17 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Ahh once again MJ using a combination of ad hominem attacks, obscure quotations, and illegible writing of his own to prove nothing! I am not a proffesional mycologist, but I am a professional scientist, and my impression of guzman is that his scientific growth stopped right around the same time that taxonomy became dominated by DNA studies. I don't understand how someone can continue to publish descriptions of new species while turning a blind eye to molecular biology. This doesn't discredit his enormous body of work and astounding contributions to fungal taxonomy, but it should make one skeptical of his recent work.

And in the field of taxonomy, you basically get two kinds of scientists, lumpers and splitters. Lumpers like to find the commonalities between species, in an attempt to lump them together into 1 species. Splitters look for any differences they can identify in an attempt to create new species, which they then get the honor of naming. Guzman is clearly a splitter. But splitting in the absence of molecular information is nonsense. If Guzman was a mammalian taxonomist, we would have 1000s of species of domesticated dog as he would certainly split great danes from german shepards from poodles etc. etc., when in fact they are clearly the same species.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: xmush]
    #6774161 - 04/11/07 10:17 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Perhaps I should not have posted the email from Dr. Guzman.  :undecided:

Let's use the principle of charity here gentlemen. Guzman, Mj, and Falcon are all intelligent and respectable members of the mycological community, but none of them (none of us) are beyond making a mistake.

I personally think the problem with naming mushrooms stems from a systemic deficiency in canonical taxonomy. The system of binomial nomenclature was first developed by Aristotle 2300 years ago to classify plants and animals. It assumes two false premises:

1) That species are distinct, fixed, and eternal.

and

2) That living things have two parents.


The second premise does not hold true for fungi who can have thousands of parents, and the first is refuted by Darwin who showed living things are evolving such that there is frequently a fuzzy edge between species. Species are stable only within a balanced ecosystem and within a regular climate, wherever there is an unstable environment, or a race to secure a place in a community evolving into a balanced ecosystem, species adapt to the dynamic environment.

With each mushroom producing millions of spores, and with thousands of spores from different mushrooms coming together to form a single colony, evolution moves orders of magnitude faster in the kingdom Fungi than in Plantae or Animilia.

Furthermore, the criterion for distinguishing between species has classically been the ability to interbreed and produce fertile offspring. I suspect this criterion might not apply to fungi that can just as readily be described as colonies of cooperating single-celled animals as as they can be called 'organisms' in the sense that plants and animals are organisms. Consider the slime molds.

In falcon's defense, I would like to point out that he has information concerning Bethany that others of us do not. Bethany was identified as P. caerulipes by MrMushrooms (whoever he is).


Let's talk about this with open minds. Appeals to authority and ad hominems will not advance knowledge, and advancing knowledge is the purpose of this forum.
...........................

MJ,

It is my understanding that Guzman received samples of P. ovoideocystidiata from an unknown source in Pennsylvania last year, and has yet to publish a paper describing the species. Until the paper is published, the name is not official. I wish Dr. Guzman would join us here for this discussion, and I wish others on this board would give him the respect he has clearly earned, even if he is mistaken about this one little thing.

It is very good to be having this discussion. :laugh:

Maybe this thread should be moved to advanced mycology in a few days, after it has been here long enough for all the hunting forum regulars to see it.

It feels like we are on the leading edge of something new, not just a new species, but perhaps a new way of doing fungal taxonomy. Let's keep the conversation going, and let's keep it respectful.

Peace,
Dan


Edited by shroomydan (04/11/07 03:42 PM)


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: shroomydan]
    #6774192 - 04/11/07 10:31 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Well said Father Dan.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: xmush]
    #6774345 - 04/11/07 11:46 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Did we all just get in a fight!!!!

:jointsmile:
:bigjoint:
:gethigh:

Know everyone hit this and coll off!


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: shroomydan]
    #6774851 - 04/11/07 02:15 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Well, there is a "new" Nomenclature, known as Phylogenetics, which focuses on the relations between organisms.

It is, however, still in its infancy, and thus, not yet functional, in the sense that organisms cannot yet be easily represented in a few descriptive words- a chart is pretty much necessary at this point.

Phylogeny is gaining a foot hold, and will continue to make a presence in the scientific community, even if it is not yet fully operable.

Anyway, I think I am going to stay on the side lines for this one.  :supershroom:


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: CureCat]
    #6775251 - 04/11/07 03:55 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Phylogeny is a great tool, but when taken to an extreme every organism has a unique chart, except perhaps in the case of clones and identical twins.

At the other extreme, if one takes the cannonical view that all life evolved from a single common ansestor, then phylogeny could argue for a single species called "life".

At which junction of downward radiating branches does one place a species marker?


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6775875 - 04/11/07 06:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Falcon,

Dr. Guzmán did not rename Psilocybe caerulipes as Psilocybe ovoideocystidia mushroom.
Quote:


Shroomy Dan;s species is Psilocybe ovoideocystidia.

And the taxonomic paper for that species is not written by Dr. Guzmán.

And Psilocybe caerulipes, is a separate species from Psilocybe ovoideocystidia.

Taking comments from Dr. Guzmán's letter and reinventing them into your own interpretation is incorrect.




Hey MJ,

Who wrote the paper describing ovoideocystitia?

Dan's mushroom is Psilocybe caerulipes.

It my feelin that there is only one species of blueing woodloving mushroom in the genus Psilocybe that has the following macroscopic characteristics.

A carmel colored, hydrophagous, viscid cap, that if the humidity is high the edges turn up when mature. The cap bruises blue and more easily when the mushroom is young or when the the air is dry and cool.

Pale tan gills that darken to purple brown as spores mature, when the ambient tempature is above 70 degrees for extended periods as the mushroom is producing spores the gills will turn violet.

A white fibrillose stem that becomes cartiligenous and sometimes hollow when it becomes older. Strandy rhyzomorphic growth at the base of the stem. This stem can be induced to be longer by covering the substrate that they are growing on with soil or organic matter the portion of the stem that is covered or is pushing up through porous substrate will have strandy rootlets extending away from the stem.

The stem has a superior evanescent veil.

The spore print is brown purple.

The stem, the strandy rhyzomorphs, the mycelium that the grows around the substrate that the mushroom is growing from will bruise blue, especially if exposed to cool dry air.

The stem is easily induced into a vegetative state when is put on wet low nutrient substrates in an enviroment of high humidity, and onto more nutrient substrates as the tempature approaches freezing.

The closer the tempature gets to freezing, but not freezing or below, the more likely the mushroom is to return to the vegatative state when put in the presence of celluse containing material in a high humidity enviroment, when the mushroom is removed from the substrate is growing on. As the tempature approaches freezing, not only the stem, but the cap in immature(cap edges still hugging the stem) will return to the vegetative state{will have mycelium growing from them that will colonize substrate).

I think this description covers pretty much all of the woodloving active psilocybin mushrooms that I have seen, I think there may be more than one species of this kind, but microscopic analysis is not going to convince me that something is a different species, when the physical characteristics are so close.

Of the mushrooms that I have seen caerulipes is the only one that consistantly fruits in the spring. And now you tell me there are two and they share the same range and they are identical in everyway, that I can sense, and they are not the same.

I have more to say, I'm going to stretch my legs and look for some morels.
Found none nice walk though.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6775919 - 04/11/07 06:35 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Mj had a bad trip


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6775963 - 04/11/07 06:47 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
Psychoslut and Falcon. I wonder what the fuck your credentials are.





MJ, why is it that every time you disagree with someone in this forum you feel the need to insult them and curse? That kind of stuff isn't going to be tolerated in this forum.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6776011 - 04/11/07 07:00 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

That paper is in press and I am not suppose to post data about it. Dan posted the letter and it really should have not been mentioned to anyone here until after the paper was in print. Right now it is in Press.

Also, Dan and I, along with Jochen Gartz and Prakitsin Sihanonth already have chemical analysis and SEM work of the species and we will publish by the late summer or end of the year on that and it will probably include cultivation by another shroomer named Mushpuppet. Dan and I have already started this collaboration last summer. This can be said because we are not revealing what the full content of the paper is.

Dr. Guzmán was going to name the species in my name in honor of my work for thirty-five years, but as the letter reveals, it is already a species whose name is in transit waiting for the printers.

Generally it takes anywhere from 6 months up to three years to get a paper in print in a reputable journal. That is because others are in front of your work and you wait as they did.

IF course a one page short communication to the journals at most journals can be placed in a few months. A four to six page paper longer,etc.

I will keep everyone posted.

Regarding my earlier comments which xmush took a dive at me, I want to point out that you said you were a professional scientist. Well, someone with those credentials would never belittle or disavow the life research of another professional scholar, nor put him down or his methods of what he does. Especially ones who earned their positions.

I known several hundred scholars who are profession in that they have never said a negative word of others work. Something you seem to infer in regards to Guzmán's work.

And taxonomy, regardless of DNA sequencing and similar work is valid period because it is taught in every university and community college across the country as is the classification of all living beings. Yes the earth is one so we all share the same dna. But to the tens of thousands of mushroom enthusiasts who seek out edibles and others, they rely on those books and guides and keys for identifications. They care not about DNA of a species. That does not help them in the least in identifying anything.

Right now the primary focus of DNA studies in America and elsewhere are for law enforcement, to convict or free people wrongly convicted of rape or murder and for paternity.

Singers, Agaricales. McIllvanes 1001 American Mushrooms, Kaufman's guides, Gary Lincoff's Audubon and Simon and Shulster's field Guides, Orson Miller, David Arora's two Guides, Dr. Joseph Amirati's two books on Poisonous and toxic Shrooms of PNW and Canada. And hundreds of other such field guides worldwide.

As for validity in such research I now point to my friend, the late Dr. Richard Evans Schultes.

He spent 14 years in teh Amazon jungles, rarely saw another white person for five years at a time.

Discover and wrote the descriptions of more than 24,000 plants new to science, of which more than 83 were psychoactive.

Was the world's leading expert on Rubber plants for world war two, as well a s the leading expert in arrow poisons (curare), and was also the leading expert on Orchids int he world.

Now that is a professional scientist.

mj

And the hundreds of other mycologists who study and write on the taxonomy of the species or the hundreds of thousand pickers of edible mushrooms who rely on the works of those people who wrote those guides for their identification.. The books and taxonomy on those shrooms are

I also just finished recently last xmas, the same chemical analysis and SEM work for cactu, P. laurrae and P. villarealii.

I may spend two weeks in Mexico this summer after i come back from the Nederland's and before I go to Cambodia.

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (04/12/07 03:59 PM)


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6776069 - 04/11/07 07:19 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
Regarding my earlier comments which xmush took a dive at me, I want to point out that you said you were a professional scientist. Well, someone with those credentials would never belittle or disavow the life research of another professional scholar, nor put him down or his methods of what he does. Especially ones who earned their positions.




You've clearly not spent much time around professional scientists. PIssing matches are the rule, not the exception. I apologize if I came off as belittling his life's research. In fact if you read what I wrote, I was trying only to cast doubt on his recent research, which appears to ignore the more cutting edge methods (molecular biology) in his field. I followed that up by paying homage to his life's work, which has brought us very far. However that type of work can only bring us so far in light of advancement of methods. And I only brought up the professional scientist part since your argument tactic against all others consists of hostility and personal attacks.

Quote:


I known several hundred scholars who are profession in that they have never said a negative word of others work. Something you seem to infer in regards to Guzmán's work.





I have no idea what that statement means or what I am meant to be inferring.


Quote:


Right now the primary focus of DNA studies in America and elsewhere are for law enforcement, to convict or free people wrongly convicted of rape or murder and for paternity.





This is the most outlandish of all of the outlandish things you have written on this site. I suggest perusing a basic molecular biology textbook and in the meantime, to quote you, 'don't post on that which you have no knowledge.'

MJ and others, the purpose of scientific work is to put forth ideas to the public so that they may be challenged, and challenged fiercly. Publishing papers is NOT science. Having the ideas in those papers challenged in open forums whether they be meetings and conventions, or a lowly internet bulletin board, is the foundation of scientific progress. Unchallenged ideas are worthless in science. And real scientists take no offense to criticism of their work.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: xmush]
    #6776179 - 04/11/07 07:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I was trying only to cast doubt on his recent research, which appears to ignore the more cutting edge methods (molecular biology) in his field.

Dr. Guzman is a mycologist. He is not a molecular biologist. That is another field of study.

And as for Guzman, it was basically Falcon and Psychoslut who were applying those words to responses to each other and then others who come along and add tot he misinformation.

Anyway, have a shroomy day.

mj


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6777205 - 04/12/07 12:19 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

And taxonomy, regardless of DNA sequencing and similar work is valid period because it is taught in evry university adn community college across the coountry as is the classification of all living beings. Yes the earth is one so we allshare the saem dns. But to the tens of thousands of mushroom enthusiasts who seek out edibles and others, they rely on those books and guides and keys for identifications. They care not about DNA of a species. That does not help them in the least in identifying anything.

It does not help when a species has two names.
Shroomydan's mushroom matches in every detail, the descriptions of Psilocybe caerulipes.

At every university and community college across the country
they are teaching that DNA analysis along with mating studies is the way to delineate species.


Edited by falcon (04/12/07 12:21 AM)


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6777299 - 04/12/07 12:44 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Here's an idea, although I only have limited knowledge of mycology so it maybe a bad one. Colonize a print which is without question caerulipes and then colonize shroomydans print and see if the species has the ability to mate with each other. Or is this not a possible test to perform?


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: jeverden]
    #6777345 - 04/12/07 12:56 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

It's a good idea, but unnecessary as the mushroom in question is Psilocybe caerulipes.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6780686 - 04/12/07 10:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Again Falcon,

you are wrong.

P. caerulipes is an east coast mushroom, also known of from Michigan (a few dozen collections), Ontario (several collections), one collection from Ohio, and their range is from South Carolina to Massachusetts and some regions of southern Ontario, along the Michigan to New York border area. And recently several collections in Mexico. Also noted in Paul's book.


P. ovoideocystidiata is, so far, only known of from Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia and not along the eastern seaboard.

In Stamets, he shows one actual photo of P.caerulipes and also one similar to Dan's shroom.

Paul has errors in his text regarding this shroom, as he has others throughout his book.

I do not need to go into that at this moment.

You need to find yourself a copy of Peck's original taxonomic paper on P. caerulipes species and the updated one by Saccardo which would read as Psilocybe caerulipes [Peck] Sacc. And then read Dr. Rolf Singer's update on those papers in Mycologia vol. 50, 1959. And then Dr. Guzmán's update in 1978.

Also, the image in Paul's book of P. caerulipes with the yellowed-caps was loaned to him by Gary Lincoff (author and editor of the Audubon Field Guide).

Orignally, University of Michigan's leading Mycologist, the late Dr. Alexander H. Smith published the first known photograph of P. caerulipes in his Mushrooms of the Eastern united States field Guide in the 1970s.

the two images of P. caerulipes in Paul's book says the bluing is very slow in coming on in the stipe of the species while Lincoff says it is greenish and then greenish-blue to slightly blue. Both of their guides used generic descriptions from both Peck's original Latin descriptions the generic description as the bluing is actually a greenish color and then slightly turns blue and from Guzman's descriptions based on Singers version and then from Guzmán's descriptions of several Mexican east coast collections which were found amongst Fagus trees. Which are also common on the east coast of America.

There are plenty of the descriptions of that mushroom in those three papers and very little are similar to P. ovoideocystidiata.

Also this statement posted above in your post shows that you are incorrect as to why you identified Dan's shrooms as P. caerulipes.

At the beginning of your post you said:

Quote:

It my feelin that there is only one species of blueing woodloving mushroom in the genus Psilocybe that has the following macroscopic characteristics.




and then you gave a generic description. However, your description also could be, P. cyanescens, P. maire, P australiana, P. Tasmainiana, P. subaeruginosa and several others.

Then at the end of the post you say something opposite of the above paragraph;

Quote:

I think this description covers pretty much all of the woodloving active psilocybin mushrooms that I have seen, I think there may be more than one species of this kind, but microscopic analysis is not going to convince me that something is a different species, when the physical characteristics are so close.




All mushrooms in every field guide were delineated by microscopic identification, not because of their physical appearances. Your statement that in your mind, a mycological difference in the species is wrong and because they look alike they are the same species. that is poor science.

One final note is that P. caerulipes belongs to the stirps:
Semilanceatae and P. olivideocystidiata belongs to the stirps: Stuntzae.

mj


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6780933 - 04/12/07 11:49 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Caerulipes can look very different depending on the humidity and the tempature that it fruits . I have seen fruits that look look like, weilii, cyanescens, azurescens and the distinctive
crinkled gills of the cold fruiting caerulipes with its dome shaped  cap from the same bed of wood chips at different times of the year. Do not presume to tell me about caerulipes, you have no first hand experience with it. It can fruit year round, that's right, every month of the year, in the same location, out of the same bed of chips that are tightly knit by mycelia into cake that is hard to break up.
Pretty weird, huh? Just because Peck didn't include year round fruiting in his description, don't make it not so.  You pick at tiny bits of information and miss the big picture MJ. In this I am not wrong, you are, Guzman is, and whoever wrote the paper about oviodeocystidia is. It is my hope that whoever wrote that paper, for their own sake sees this post and stops the presses and reconsiders before they publish, for their own sake.

Psilocybe caerulipes and cyanescens are very likely co-specific, at the very least they are closely related enough that exposure of cyanscens beds to caerulipes mycelium can convert the cyanescens into a crinkled gill, spring fruiting species.

One final note is that P. caerulipes belongs to the stirps:
Semilanceatae and P. olivideocystidiata belongs to the stirps: Stuntzae.


:lol:

Someone told you that, right. Can you tell me what that means. What is it about caerulipes that puts it in the stirps Semilanceatae?

Fagus is common on the East Coast?
Maybe in some places, but common, you read this somewhere, huh? Been to east coast lately and seen a lot of Beech?

I don't think we are on the same page here, MJ.

There are plenty of the descriptions of that mushroom in those three papers and very little are similar to P. ovoideocystidiata.

Then why would Guzman say that Dan's mushroom is ovoideaocystidiata, when Dan's mushroom is caerulipes?


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6781148 - 04/13/07 12:36 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

the meaning of the word stirps.

Main Entry: stirp
Pronunciation: 'st&rp
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin stirp-, stirps
: a line descending from a common ancestor : STOCK, LINEAGE

I should have used the word Section but the
genus Psilocybe is devided into many sections.

nmd those sections are the KEY for the identification of the mushrooms in each section.,

Go to your local university adn maybe no one has yet ripped off the copy of Guman's Book, The Genus PSilocybe.

You are still wrong and no matter what you say, unless youpubloish, in a journal of your peers, a debunking paper on the species, It will be Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata no matter what you post here.

And P. cyansecens belongs to the section cyanescens of the Psilocybe genera.

Each stirps or section contains a list of particular mushrooms, delineated by their microscopic features and differences, and by the size of their spores and the range of the spores.

And I will not respond again to your persistent viewpoint of what you think you know by your macroscopic id of two different mushrooms. You claim you know the blue staining features of P. caerulipes but I really doubt that you have ever really found or collected any of that spedcies.

I still say the shroom is P. olivideocystidia and it will also appear in Paul Stamet's 2nd volume to PMOTW.

And in my forthcoming field guide "Magic Mushrooms of the United States and Canada" for publication early next year. And I will be sure to write a few paragraphs of your unknowleable comments about what you think you know about this species and just how wrong you are.

Oh yes, you need to re look at your post about your identification of what you said was P. caeruulipes and correct the wrong mycological words you used and a few others.

mj


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6781185 - 04/13/07 12:42 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You wrote:
Quote:

In this I am not wrong, you are, Guzman is, and whoever wrote the paper about oviodeocystidia is. It is my hope that whoever wrote that paper, for their own sake sees this post and stops the presses and reconsiders before they publish, for their own sake.




Scholars have very little confidnece in what people write on forums which promote drugs and drug use.

Paul Stamets, ALbert Hofmann Jonathan Ott, Dennis McKenna, and others do not post on the internet in this forum or any other similar forum.

They avoid the insanity of having to bitch fight with people who are not qualified as they are to speak.

They find them inaccurate and disturbing, and I am speaking with full knowledge of may of them whom I write abou8t and lecture with.

mj
mj


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6781193 - 04/13/07 12:44 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

is there a release date for PMOTW volume 2?


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: coon]
    #6781200 - 04/13/07 12:47 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Sometime next year.

mj


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6782214 - 04/13/07 09:56 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

MJ,

I'm not a mycologist, but I am very interested in Taxonomy and would like to know what differentia Guzman used to distinguish P. ovoideocystidiata from P. stuntzii and P. caerulipes.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6785118 - 04/14/07 12:25 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Well i dunno what i eat off the river bed, but its the same mushroom as shroomery dans and found in virginia. Pics in gallery.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6785245 - 04/14/07 01:17 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Scholars have very little confidnece in what people write on forums which promote drugs and drug use.

Paul Stamets, ALbert Hofmann Jonathan Ott, Dennis McKenna, and others do not post on the internet in this forum or any other similar forum.

They avoid the insanity of having to bitch fight with people who are not qualified as they are to speak.

They find them inaccurate and disturbing, and I am speaking with full knowledge of may of them whom I write abou8t and lecture with.


Is this the way you feel about the shroomery? Do you agree with people who feel this way?
Is there no one here that is qualified to speak?
Are there no scholars that post at the shroomery?
Why do you post here? Are we to take scholars at their word?

Why would you mention Stamets? Has he not spoke of the benefits of mushrooms?
Would not that include him as, if not a member of the community, at least a kindred spirit?

You made a post about Dan's mushroom months ago, stating that people would be happy when the paper came out. Why even mention it? Why tempt the unqualified to speak?

Why did you bring these names into this post? Is it taunt? What does Hofmann have to do with the discussion at hand? Or for that matter Ott or Mckenna?

If your intent was to confuse it worked.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6785271 - 04/14/07 01:27 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

c'mon fellas. :stars:


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: shroomydan]
    #6791934 - 04/15/07 09:28 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

MJ,

I'm not a mycologist, but I am very interested in Taxonomy and would like to know what differentia Guzman used to distinguish P. ovoideocystidiata from P. stuntzii and P. caerulipes.


http://www.edata-center.com/journals/708ae68d64b17c52,0d49dda96a2a7147,3eb72a2f170d20a5.html
Quote:


ABSTRACT

Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata is described as a new blueing species from Pennsylvania, USA. It belongs to section Stuntzii Guzmán of genus Psilocybe for its subrhomboid, thick-walled spores and its caerulescent basidioma with annulus.

75-77 pages





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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6792952 - 04/16/07 01:27 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Really I dont see what arguing in a forum about it is going to do anyways. I am a mycology hobbiest and in no way a professional, but it seems to me MJ you feel as if you are above everyone here and that noone else has valid points and info other than yourself or one of the many scientists you quote so often. I for one think that it is totally possible that the two mushrooms in question could be 2 different species or the same one. I would just like to know what makes them positively 2 different species? What differences were observed to be able to say this without any speculation. Instead of bickering with each other why dont we find out the answer to this question? Why Mj is this ovoideocystidiata and not caerulipes?


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6794072 - 04/16/07 11:16 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Pay the $35.00 cost for the article to the International Journal of Medicinal mushrooms. And you can download the article as I had to do.

AS I said I am staying out of this riff since someone does not know about what they are talking about.

mj


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6794178 - 04/16/07 11:45 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Interestingly, of the tens of thousands of journals that are available free to me through the two universities that I am affiliated with, the International Journal of Medicinal Mushrooms is not one of them. That typically means that a journal is not readily accepted as an important journal in its field, or it is relatively new.

mjshroomer, is this a pretty reputable journal that just flies under the radar or what? Do many mycologists read this journal?


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: xmush]
    #6794550 - 04/16/07 01:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Xmush,
while I also am affiliated with several Universities, even I have to pay for a journal publication copied and sent to me from other Universities libraries. Even the professors have to pay for the copies of the works they need reprints of.

The Journal began in 1999. It is very big now because of the interest in medicinal shrooms, usually this field was restricted to Asia and Southeast Asia and spread to the Soviet block. Medicinal mushrooms are now a billion dollar a year business now. Far from rare. And yes The conferences are big each year more and more. Stamet' Medicinal shroom conference held in Ft. Towndsend was $1600.00 per person without room and board. Interestingly, the 2nd International Conference on Hallucinogenic Mushrooms was also held at ft. Worden. Tickets for that were $150.00 per person with room and board. See how much money Stamets is raking in on those. I also posted the Reeshi's of Thailand pictorial and posted images of the many by medicinal byproducts of Reeshi. Stamets makes a fortune off extracts of Agaricus Blazeii and Reeshi, moreso than the mushrooms he sells internationally.

Yes, Medicinal shrooms are big.

Now you said you have access to thousands of journal publications, but then again that cost for a student to find what you need and interlibrary loan is expensive

Regarding Library stock of journals. many libraries cut back on journal publications because of the expensive price of a journal. Most reputable journals only print a press run of approx. 200-2000 issues per journal. Most go to libraries but also to other mycologists who subscribe and article copies go to lead authors. Articles are sold or given to authors up to fifty copies. This journal does not provide authors with copies of their papers. They do sell, as do many journals now available, on the internet at a cost.

And journals published at least five years ago are rare and hard to find.

Because I paid for this article i am not posting it.

However, when Dr. Guzmán sends me a PDF copy, I will try to post the data asked about here.

I would like to tell you that when I was working with Dr. Mark Merlin at the U of H, the Library funding was cut by Governor Cayetano. He took $36,000,000 in library funds and re-issued the money to support the University football team. He wrote for the board of Trustees at Bishop which places funds for library spending at a new low. No new books for two years and 20% less journal publications for two years. That was in 1996 circa or there abouts.

They moved all journals prior to 1973 to a different building across campus. Making it harder for students to get older data without having to ravel the length of campus at Manoa.

U of W did a similar funding with the Huskies vs library funds and the University of Oregon in Eugene, had no money to buy new xerox equipment, using machines from the 1970s. That was visible to me in 1991 when Gartz and I went there to xerox marcofische items. They had the same machines from 1976 when I was there studying.

Now many journals are so expensive, schools cannot keep up with them as much as they would like to and every year, dozens of new journals are being added to the lists and not being used fully. Many libraries cannot afford the price of journals so they are choosy in what is accepted.

If you notice on this page,

http://www.begellhouse.com/journals/708ae68d64b17c52.html

the full issue cost $498.00 each. That is for a printed copy./ The U of Washington has them there.

You can scroll the issues from 2001 on and look at the table of contents of the variouos issues and you will see who writes what there. One issue was all the papers read at the Conference Stamets organized a few years ago or so.

The publishers of that journal also publish many others, including the journal of Ethnopharmacology.

Guzman has written several articles published here. AS have other noted mycologists.

Stamets and others have written many articles on magic shrooms in this journal and articles related to their medicinal properties.

mj

I think in the future, many journals will go internet and sell the PDF copies.

I have several journals over the years I have bought.

Journal of Psychedelic Drugs, later became Journal of Psychoactive Drugs. They charged me $100.00 for fifty copies of my paper, "Magic Mushrooms of Australia and New Zealand," When the article was published, while other journals provide up to 50 free copies of authors articles to the authors.

The Int. J. Med. Mushrooms charges for its copies to defray the cost of printing.

Not all libraries have carried the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs or its renamed issues, some due to cost, others due to subject matter. The J. of Psychedelic Drugs has been in print since the early 1970s.

I do have at least 1800 articles in my files of the more than 2800 known published articles about psilocybian mushrooms, collected from journals in Libraries and buying journal publications from around the world.

Here is the cover for one issue I own of the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs. This one is on the Conference for Hallucinogens and Shamanism in Native American Life" held at the Japan Trade Center in San Francisco in 1978.

It contains all the papers of the lectures given at this conference.



I purchased this years ago and it is not available now.

Also, many journal publications on library stacks at Universities on the West Coast between 1953 and 1985 have had mushroom articles ripped out of them, or pictures of magic shrooms excised from the pages of the journals in these libraries. This is disgusting. IT makes it so others could not learn about these mushrooms at the time.

A friend informed me that the article I wrote in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology on Hawaii had all the photos razor-bladed (excised) from the article.

Luckily I still had a few reprints, which that journal provides its authors with in my files so i was able to provide the Chemistry library with a copy sop they were able to restored to journal to its original fullness.

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (04/16/07 01:25 PM)


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6794644 - 04/16/07 01:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Excellent, thanks for the info. I was just surprised that there was no online access like I have to so many other journals.


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: xmush]
    #6794668 - 04/16/07 01:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

double post. Sorry


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: xmush]
    #6794679 - 04/16/07 01:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Online access is usually more so done with illegal copies posted by others. Such as Erowid. Most journals do not want their copyrighted materials posted. Of course they do not monitor sites of their materials which other post and then many access those articles for personal use.

I built my bibliography by actually xeroxing at least 9-% of all my copied articles in my files, besides having original journals and books.

I can post some reprint requests from articles I had to pay for because the originals were ripped from books at the U of W.. Usually they have some copies available but once their original fifty or so reprints are given out on requests, then interlibrary loan takes effect.

Students at universities do work study programs to pay back the cost of their tuitions, and student loans, etc., by copying articles on the work study programs at schools. I payed ten dollars each for numerous articles through interlibrary loan. I had no funding to buy them. Some schools providde that to teachers, others charge the teacher.

Libaries now charge about $15-20.00s per article to have a student find it, scan it in a xerox machine and then they mail you the article. Does not matter if it is one page or 100 pages. Cost is the same.

Even the teachers have to pay for many reprints pertaining to their studies or classes. Now many also have to pay for paper for copying at schools, even on their key cards for the copy machines, they are charged.

mj


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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6794726 - 04/16/07 02:00 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Actually most publishers make their journals available online for a subscription. I wouldn't say that 'online access is usually more so done with illegal copies.' I think that online access is the norm for most reputable journals. This subscription is paid for by the university, and then students and faculty at the university can access these materials for free. There is also a fair use policy such that professors can distribute these materials in the classroom. It is pretty rare these days for someone to actually browse the stacks at a university and make physical copies of an article. That's why I was surprised that neither of the two universities I am with had access to IJMM when they have subscription access to so many other journals.

Of course now we are getting off topic from the bluefeet. Suffice to say, it seems that IJMM is a reputable journal in your opinion, but it is not readily available at some universities.


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