Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. * 1
    #6772784 - 04/10/07 10:01 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Shroomydan posted in this thread, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6692345/an/0/page/1

Quote:



Bluefoot is not Psilocybe caerulipes. MJshroomer forwarded some samples on to Dr. Gaston Guzman for me, and Guzman identified them as Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. The following is from Guzman's email to me.



Quote:



I am sorry...It is not a new species. Certainly it is a rare species and a new record but not a new species. My colleague and me were confused at first with your material, because another Psilocybe that we recently studied from Pennsylvania and we described as a new species...when I compared your mushroom with that of Pennsylvania, I can not find differences among them. Then your material is not a new species, but it is the first record... from Ohio and West Virginia.

The Pennsylvania mushroom is Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, that soon will be published.


Best regards

Dr. Gaston Guzman

Emeritus Research and

Head of the Fungus Collection of

Instituto de Ecologia










I'm closing the original thread as the original poster asked a question that was not allowed by the forum rules. I should have made the post I am making now
instead of responding to Shroomydan.

The renaming of Psilocybe caerulipes by Guzman, when I initially saw this it made me angry and amused.

Now I am pretty much amused. The descriptions of caerulipes in Lincoff's National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Mushrooms and Stamets' Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World  match the mushroom that Shroomydan found very well.

Shroomydan said:

Quote:

Guzman's criterion for distinguishing these from P. caerulipes is the presences of an annulus, however, as you know, the annulus usually only persists for a few hours.





:wink::smirk: So now depending on what time you find the mushroom, before or after the veil has disappeared will determine whether it is Psilocybe caerulipes or
Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. :lol:


Edited by falcon (04/10/07 10:15 PM)


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: CureCat] * 1
    #6772889 - 04/10/07 10:22 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, bad science, but a wonderful story. :tongue:


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut] * 1
    #6772954 - 04/10/07 10:35 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

They just want to feel like they had discovered a new species.

I wish I had thought of it, this makes bluefoot extra special.

BTW Here is a post with the best description of habitat for Bluefoot that I've seen anywhere: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4173375#Post4173375

the only things that I would add is to look for large stands of Sycamore, and keep and eye out for large stands of Japanese Knotweed in the habitat that Rick D James describes.


Edited by falcon (04/10/07 10:39 PM)


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut] * 1
    #6773007 - 04/10/07 10:46 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

:shrug: Close relative of bluefoot was found pretty close to the gulf:
Psilocybe caerulescens was found in 1923 in Montgomery Alabama
by a guy named Murrill.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut] * 1
    #6773095 - 04/10/07 11:05 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

:lol:


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut] * 1
    #6773139 - 04/10/07 11:15 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not fucking with you, you just asked for a specific location and I'm going to delete it.

The range is Northeastern United States and Mexico, ummm, they were found by Guzman a couple of times in Mexico. So there is a chance that they could be found on the Gulf Coast.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut] * 1
    #6773264 - 04/10/07 11:37 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, pretty much, my advice would be to look for them anywhere you find a large stand of Sycamores, not Sycamores that are planted in some city park, but ones that are growing in the wild, that seeded themselves.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6775875 - 04/11/07 04:23 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Falcon,

Dr. Guzmán did not rename Psilocybe caerulipes as Psilocybe ovoideocystidia mushroom.
Quote:


Shroomy Dan;s species is Psilocybe ovoideocystidia.

And the taxonomic paper for that species is not written by Dr. Guzmán.

And Psilocybe caerulipes, is a separate species from Psilocybe ovoideocystidia.

Taking comments from Dr. Guzmán's letter and reinventing them into your own interpretation is incorrect.




Hey MJ,

Who wrote the paper describing ovoideocystitia?

Dan's mushroom is Psilocybe caerulipes.

It my feelin that there is only one species of blueing woodloving mushroom in the genus Psilocybe that has the following macroscopic characteristics.

A carmel colored, hydrophagous, viscid cap, that if the humidity is high the edges turn up when mature. The cap bruises blue and more easily when the mushroom is young or when the the air is dry and cool.

Pale tan gills that darken to purple brown as spores mature, when the ambient tempature is above 70 degrees for extended periods as the mushroom is producing spores the gills will turn violet.

A white fibrillose stem that becomes cartiligenous and sometimes hollow when it becomes older. Strandy rhyzomorphic growth at the base of the stem. This stem can be induced to be longer by covering the substrate that they are growing on with soil or organic matter the portion of the stem that is covered or is pushing up through porous substrate will have strandy rootlets extending away from the stem.

The stem has a superior evanescent veil.

The spore print is brown purple.

The stem, the strandy rhyzomorphs, the mycelium that the grows around the substrate that the mushroom is growing from will bruise blue, especially if exposed to cool dry air.

The stem is easily induced into a vegetative state when is put on wet low nutrient substrates in an enviroment of high humidity, and onto more nutrient substrates as the tempature approaches freezing.

The closer the tempature gets to freezing, but not freezing or below, the more likely the mushroom is to return to the vegatative state when put in the presence of celluse containing material in a high humidity enviroment, when the mushroom is removed from the substrate is growing on. As the tempature approaches freezing, not only the stem, but the cap in immature(cap edges still hugging the stem) will return to the vegetative state{will have mycelium growing from them that will colonize substrate).

I think this description covers pretty much all of the woodloving active psilocybin mushrooms that I have seen, I think there may be more than one species of this kind, but microscopic analysis is not going to convince me that something is a different species, when the physical characteristics are so close.

Of the mushrooms that I have seen caerulipes is the only one that consistantly fruits in the spring. And now you tell me there are two and they share the same range and they are identical in everyway, that I can sense, and they are not the same.

I have more to say, I'm going to stretch my legs and look for some morels.
Found none nice walk though.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6777205 - 04/11/07 10:19 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

And taxonomy, regardless of DNA sequencing and similar work is valid period because it is taught in evry university adn community college across the coountry as is the classification of all living beings. Yes the earth is one so we allshare the saem dns. But to the tens of thousands of mushroom enthusiasts who seek out edibles and others, they rely on those books and guides and keys for identifications. They care not about DNA of a species. That does not help them in the least in identifying anything.

It does not help when a species has two names.
Shroomydan's mushroom matches in every detail, the descriptions of Psilocybe caerulipes.

At every university and community college across the country
they are teaching that DNA analysis along with mating studies is the way to delineate species.


Edited by falcon (04/11/07 10:21 PM)


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Montanahunter420]
    #6777345 - 04/11/07 10:56 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

It's a good idea, but unnecessary as the mushroom in question is Psilocybe caerulipes.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6780933 - 04/12/07 09:49 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Caerulipes can look very different depending on the humidity and the tempature that it fruits . I have seen fruits that look look like, weilii, cyanescens, azurescens and the distinctive
crinkled gills of the cold fruiting caerulipes with its dome shaped  cap from the same bed of wood chips at different times of the year. Do not presume to tell me about caerulipes, you have no first hand experience with it. It can fruit year round, that's right, every month of the year, in the same location, out of the same bed of chips that are tightly knit by mycelia into cake that is hard to break up.
Pretty weird, huh? Just because Peck didn't include year round fruiting in his description, don't make it not so.  You pick at tiny bits of information and miss the big picture MJ. In this I am not wrong, you are, Guzman is, and whoever wrote the paper about oviodeocystidia is. It is my hope that whoever wrote that paper, for their own sake sees this post and stops the presses and reconsiders before they publish, for their own sake.

Psilocybe caerulipes and cyanescens are very likely co-specific, at the very least they are closely related enough that exposure of cyanscens beds to caerulipes mycelium can convert the cyanescens into a crinkled gill, spring fruiting species.

One final note is that P. caerulipes belongs to the stirps:
Semilanceatae and P. olivideocystidiata belongs to the stirps: Stuntzae.


:lol:

Someone told you that, right. Can you tell me what that means. What is it about caerulipes that puts it in the stirps Semilanceatae?

Fagus is common on the East Coast?
Maybe in some places, but common, you read this somewhere, huh? Been to east coast lately and seen a lot of Beech?

I don't think we are on the same page here, MJ.

There are plenty of the descriptions of that mushroom in those three papers and very little are similar to P. ovoideocystidiata.

Then why would Guzman say that Dan's mushroom is ovoideaocystidiata, when Dan's mushroom is caerulipes?


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6785245 - 04/13/07 11:17 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Scholars have very little confidnece in what people write on forums which promote drugs and drug use.

Paul Stamets, ALbert Hofmann Jonathan Ott, Dennis McKenna, and others do not post on the internet in this forum or any other similar forum.

They avoid the insanity of having to bitch fight with people who are not qualified as they are to speak.

They find them inaccurate and disturbing, and I am speaking with full knowledge of may of them whom I write abou8t and lecture with.


Is this the way you feel about the shroomery? Do you agree with people who feel this way?
Is there no one here that is qualified to speak?
Are there no scholars that post at the shroomery?
Why do you post here? Are we to take scholars at their word?

Why would you mention Stamets? Has he not spoke of the benefits of mushrooms?
Would not that include him as, if not a member of the community, at least a kindred spirit?

You made a post about Dan's mushroom months ago, stating that people would be happy when the paper came out. Why even mention it? Why tempt the unqualified to speak?

Why did you bring these names into this post? Is it taunt? What does Hofmann have to do with the discussion at hand? Or for that matter Ott or Mckenna?

If your intent was to confuse it worked.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 8 hours, 25 minutes
Trusted Identifier
Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: shroomydan]
    #6791934 - 04/15/07 07:28 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

MJ,

I'm not a mycologist, but I am very interested in Taxonomy and would like to know what differentia Guzman used to distinguish P. ovoideocystidiata from P. stuntzii and P. caerulipes.


http://www.edata-center.com/journals/708ae68d64b17c52,0d49dda96a2a7147,3eb72a2f170d20a5.html
Quote:


ABSTRACT

Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata is described as a new blueing species from Pennsylvania, USA. It belongs to section Stuntzii Guzmán of genus Psilocybe for its subrhomboid, thick-walled spores and its caerulescent basidioma with annulus.

75-77 pages





Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* July 20th Hunt Paulrus 1,811 15 07/21/08 08:11 AM
by Paulrus
* Ohio River Islands National Wildlife Refuge [Bluefoot pics included] shroomydan 7,227 16 05/16/06 11:18 PM
by DaveTX
* Big bluefoot
( 1 2 all )
falcon 2,827 35 05/16/08 12:30 AM
by weiliiiiiii
* pan. subbs./blue foots/p. liniformans var americana/P. ovoideocystidiata/gymno's./conocybe smithii/ MichiganPsiloX 8,015 14 10/28/07 06:41 PM
by Phish_Dude
* Pennsylvania Mushrooms lukeduke711 1,159 1 06/23/08 07:07 PM
by Alan Rockefeller
* Maintaining Hardwood Log Instead Of Jar Growing? Agent 47 1,449 19 04/01/08 10:12 PM
by PinheadX
* Are these shrooms any good??? lukeduke711 1,201 10 03/22/08 08:49 AM
by xmush
* Its showtime! Rynkar 515 3 08/24/08 06:43 PM
by Rynkar

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: ToxicMan, inski, Alan Rockefeller, Duggstar, TimmiT, Anglerfish, Tmethyl, Lucis, Doc9151, Land Trout
31,059 topic views. 3 members, 9 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.022 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 15 queries.