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Offlinefalcon
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Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata.
    #6772784 - 04/11/07 12:01 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Shroomydan posted in this thread, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6692345/an/0/page/1

Quote:



Bluefoot is not Psilocybe caerulipes. MJshroomer forwarded some samples on to Dr. Gaston Guzman for me, and Guzman identified them as Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. The following is from Guzman's email to me.



Quote:



I am sorry...It is not a new species. Certainly it is a rare species and a new record but not a new species. My colleague and me were confused at first with your material, because another Psilocybe that we recently studied from Pennsylvania and we described as a new species...when I compared your mushroom with that of Pennsylvania, I can not find differences among them. Then your material is not a new species, but it is the first record... from Ohio and West Virginia.

The Pennsylvania mushroom is Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, that soon will be published.


Best regards

Dr. Gaston Guzman

Emeritus Research and

Head of the Fungus Collection of

Instituto de Ecologia










I'm closing the original thread as the original poster asked a question that was not allowed by the forum rules. I should have made the post I am making now
instead of responding to Shroomydan.

The renaming of Psilocybe caerulipes by Guzman, when I initially saw this it made me angry and amused.

Now I am pretty much amused. The descriptions of caerulipes in Lincoff's National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Mushrooms and Stamets' Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World  match the mushroom that Shroomydan found very well.

Shroomydan said:

Quote:

Guzman's criterion for distinguishing these from P. caerulipes is the presences of an annulus, however, as you know, the annulus usually only persists for a few hours.





:wink::smirk: So now depending on what time you find the mushroom, before or after the veil has disappeared will determine whether it is Psilocybe caerulipes or
Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. :lol:


Edited by falcon (04/11/07 12:15 AM)


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6772824 - 04/11/07 12:09 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

:lol: :shrug:


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6772861 - 04/11/07 12:16 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Ugh.... Bad science.  :frown:


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: CureCat]
    #6772888 - 04/11/07 12:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

They just want to feel like they had discovered a new species.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: CureCat]
    #6772889 - 04/11/07 12:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, bad science, but a wonderful story. :tongue:


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Offline2859558484
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6772913 - 04/11/07 12:27 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Ive always been skeptical about Guzman's new species. Psilocybe subcubensis, and now this. haha. Also the different classifications of pan cyans. Like pan tropocalis.


--------------------


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6772954 - 04/11/07 12:35 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

They just want to feel like they had discovered a new species.

I wish I had thought of it, this makes bluefoot extra special.

BTW Here is a post with the best description of habitat for Bluefoot that I've seen anywhere: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4173375#Post4173375

the only things that I would add is to look for large stands of Sycamore, and keep and eye out for large stands of Japanese Knotweed in the habitat that Rick D James describes.


Edited by falcon (04/11/07 12:39 AM)


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6772972 - 04/11/07 12:38 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

aint no reason to get smart with me

hey do blue foots grow on the gulf coast?


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6773007 - 04/11/07 12:46 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

:shrug: Close relative of bluefoot was found pretty close to the gulf:
Psilocybe caerulescens was found in 1923 in Montgomery Alabama
by a guy named Murrill.


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773053 - 04/11/07 12:55 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

haha haha hahhahaha your funny. I'm talking deep like down.


Edited by falcon (04/11/07 01:16 AM)


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6773095 - 04/11/07 01:05 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773122 - 04/11/07 01:10 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i aint got any reason to look for them anyhow i was just wondering to get an idea of how widespread they are.
thats bull shit they arrested that many people over some shrooms.

you are laughin too hard, what the hells so funny. im on the good end of a bottle of jd so if you are fuckin with me, aint not point to it right now cause i done care.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6773139 - 04/11/07 01:15 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not fucking with you, you just asked for a specific location and I'm going to delete it.

The range is Northeastern United States and Mexico, ummm, they were found by Guzman a couple of times in Mexico. So there is a chance that they could be found on the Gulf Coast.


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773163 - 04/11/07 01:19 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

but didnt we already decide guzman dont know what hes talkinbout?


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6773264 - 04/11/07 01:37 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, pretty much, my advice would be to look for them anywhere you find a large stand of Sycamores, not Sycamores that are planted in some city park, but ones that are growing in the wild, that seeded themselves.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773721 - 04/11/07 03:45 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Faslcon,

Dr. Guzmán did not rename Psilocybe caerulipes as Psilocybe ovoideocystidia mushroom.

Shroomy Dan;s species is Psilocybe ovoideocystidia.

And the taxonomic paper for that species is not written by Dr. Guzmán.

And Psilocybe caerulipes, is a separate species from Psilocybe ovoideocystidia.

Taking comments from Dr. Guzmán's letter and reinventing them into your own interpretation is incorrect.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: 2859558484]
    #6773747 - 04/11/07 04:02 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Wowithc, you are misinformed.

you said
Quote:

I've always been skeptical about Guzman's new species. Psilocybe subcubensis, and now this. haha. Also the different classifications of pan cyans. Like pan tropocalis.




If you do not go to college and study mycology then please do not offer opinions for which you have no knowledge of.

Dr. Guzmán published the paper on the taxonomy of psilocyeb subcuensis, most likelyu before you were born.

Mycotaxon vol 7:page 248 in 1978. 30 years ago.

And regarding the other half of your statement, Dr. Guzmán wrote the Genus Psilocybe. Not the Panaeolus. the two Monographs, most fortunatley were written by Dr. Gyorgy-Miklos O'lah of the Universite Laval in 1961, POublsihed only in French and Dr, Ewald Gerhardt, in 2000 in Germanm, thus keeping the knowledge from anyone who does not speak those languages. To say that what they wrote bothers you. Hahaha.

Sorry.

mj

This whole thread is a farce and most of the posts by both Falcon and Psychoslut are misinformation and can easily be debunk.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6773786 - 04/11/07 04:37 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Psychoslut and Falcon. I wonder what the fuck your credentials are.

Dr. Guzmán's speaks for himself.

Quote:

Gastón Guzmán is a Mexican mycologist, co-founder and past President of the Mexican Mycological Society. Guzmán has spent more than 44 years studying mushrooms, working mainly in taxonomy, ecology and ethnomycology. He presently works at the Instituto de Ecología, Xalapa, Veracruz, México, where he founded the Mycology Department in 1989.

Guzmán has published more than 350 papers on fungi and 8 books. His first book, published in 1977 was the first mushroom field guide published in Mexico. In 1983 Cramer published his monograph on Psilocybe (now out of print): The Genus Psilocybe: A Systematic Revision of the Known Species Including the History, Distribution and Chemistry of the Hallucinogenic Species . In 1995 Cramer also published a supplement to that monograph. Guzmán had described more than one hundred new species of Psilocybe throughout the world. His most recent book, published in 1997, is a checklist of Spanish names for mushroom species of Latin American mushrooms, a monumental work covering more than 5,500 common names with scientific equivalents ( over 1600 species). Guzmán began his first studies in 1955 and 1957 became field assistant to Rolf Singer, then investigating the hallucinogenic fungi of México. In an obscure village of southern México, Guzmán attended an Indian ceremony where he partook of the visionary mushroom (Psilocybe cubensis).

Since 1995 and 1997 Guzmán has been honored as an Emeritus National Research Fellow in Mexico and an Emeritus Research Fellow of his Institution. Guzmán's current work is A Worldwide Geographical Distribution of the Neurotropic Fungi, Analysis and Discussion, a listing all of the known psychoactive species (218 and counting) and their worldwide distribution, co authored with John W. Allen and Jochen Gartz. This large monograph will appear in the Italian Journal Annal des Musei Civici de Rovereto. Guzmán is considered to be the leading authority on the taxonomy of the Mexican entheogenic mushrooms.




Quit spreading misinformation on the site.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773797 - 04/11/07 04:51 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
:shrug: Close relative of bluefoot was found pretty close to the gulf:
Psilocybe caerulescens was found in 1923 in Montgomery Alabama
by a guy named Murrill.




Again you do not know what you are talking about.

P. caerulipes was first reported in Hutnsville, Alabama, 1924 and was never found in that state since.

however, P. caerulescens is a mushroom in Mexico known as the Derrumbe (landslide mushroom), it grows alongside of sugarcane fields and is one the primary mushrooms used in ritual healing and curing ceremonies in Oaxaca, Mexico. IT is also the mushroom that Timothy Leary first ate in Cuernavaca, Mexico in 1960 and that was what Leary made world famous from his research with Harvard University.

In the 1990s, a few specimens were recorded from Mississippi.  And again it is rare in America.

Another comment:

Quote:

Paul Stamets mentions in his field guide to Psilocybine Mushrooms
of the World that R. Gordon Wasson first ate 13 pairs of this mushroom during
his initial velada with Maria Sabina. However, it was actually seven pairs of mushrooms.
Timothy Leary also consumed this mushroom in 1960 in Cuernavaca, Mexico.
He was given 7 specimens of P. caerulescens mushrooms by the anthropologist Frank Baron.
This species was first discovered and identified from Huntsville, Alabama in 1924 by the mycologist Murrill and never seen there again since.

Later in the late 1950s, R. Gordon Wasson and Roger Heim identified it as the Derumbe (Landslide) mushroom of the Mazatec Indians.  this was the shroom eaten by Dr,. Wasson and described in the May 13, 1957 issue of Life magazine.

It was observed in Oaxaca, Mexico fruiting from sugar cane mulch and landslide areas along sugar cane roads.
Many Identification guides list this species as occurring in the southeast states of Mississippi to Georgia and
Florida.




And again, Falcon spreading misinformation.

The mushroom was discovered in Huntsville, Alabama in 1924.

Not in Montgomery in 1923 as you posted.

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (04/12/07 03:54 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Bluefoot is Psilocybe caerulipes and Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. [Re: falcon]
    #6773806 - 04/11/07 05:00 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Falcon said about P. caerulescens>
Quote:

by a guy named Murrill.
Quote:



Here are Dr. Murrill's credentials.

Quote:


Archives and Manuscript Collections

Records of the Herbarium (RG4)
WILLIAM ALPHONSO MURRILL RECORDS (1903-1957)
2.6 linear feet (4 boxes)

BIOGRAPHICAL NOTE

William Alphonso Murrill (1869-1957) was a mycologist, taxonomist, writer, and authority on the fleshy fungi (Basidiomycetes). Born October 13, 1869, near Lynchburg, Virginia, he gained a B.S. degree (1887) from the Virginia Agricultural and Mechanical College; B.S. (1889), B.A. (1890), and M.A. (1891) degrees from Randolph Macon College; and a Ph.D. (1897) from Cornell University. He taught biology for four years at DeWitt Clinton High School in New York City and in 1904 began his career with The New York Botanical Garden as Assistant Curator, succeeding Franklin S. Earle as staff mycologist. From 1909 to 1919 he acted as Assistant Director and became Curator and Supervisor of Public Instruction from 1919 to 1924.

Murrill collected over 70,000 specimens of fungi in North and South America, Mexico, and the Caribbean, of which The New York Botanical Garden Cryptogamic Herbarium holds about 14,000 specimens, including more than 1,700 type specimens. Using the American Code of nomenclature Murrill identified and described many new genera and species and made nomenclatural revisions of existing taxa that were variously criticized and praised by American mycologists. On at least four occasions, Murrill traveled to England, France, Italy, Germany, and Sweden to study type specimens in European herbaria. He identified the pathogenic fungus Diaporthe [Cryphonectria] parasitica that causes Chestnut blight.

Murrill published important monographs on hymenomycetes, and over five hundred scientific articles on a wide range of botanical subjects. His major works include a series on the Polyporaceae in the Bulletin of the Torrey Botanical Club (1902-06), and five monographs on the Boletaceae and Polyporaceae in 1914-15. He lectured widely and wrote autobiographical pieces and popular books on natural science for young adults. Murrill founded and served as editor of Mycologia (1909-1924) and the Journal of the NYBG (1906-1908), and was a contributor to North American Flora. In 1924 he retired both from the Garden and from professional life altogether. During the 1930's he became associated with the University of Florida in Gainesville, where he resumed mycological study and publication until his death in 1957.




mj


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