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OfflineFrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist


Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 883
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: One billion people in Asia face water shortages from warming [Re: Phred]
    #6768318 - 04/10/07 12:38 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I noticed this statement in the article: "Suzuki, a geneticist and one of Canada's most respected environmentalists, said North Americans take their natural resources for granted while most European countries have dealt with environmental crises for years. He said environmental issues need to take a prominent place in the next federal election, likely early next year."

That seems to confirm my theory of how the economic success of the United States can largely be attributed to geography.


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (04/10/07 12:41 AM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitV
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: One billion people in Asia face water shortages from warming [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6768430 - 04/10/07 01:28 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

There have been many temperature swings in the past, but they've happened over many thousands of years, not over 50 years, as they have now. The current rate of rise in temperatures is unprecedented in history. That is a fact and it isn't Al Gore's fault. Al Gore's biggest problem lately seems to be too many big mac's, but not his position on global warming.
RR


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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinemr_kite
The Watcher
Male


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: One billion people in Asia face water shortages from warming [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6768681 - 04/10/07 03:56 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

> How is it not natural? Are humans not native to the planet? Are humans not natural? Are aliens dumping their alien waste on earth and we don't know about it? Humans and their huge egos...

:rolleyes: OK, human destruction of the planet is completely natural and excusable. Is that your point? Let's try and do the opposite then, lets be unnatural for the better.

> however, it is the general populace (and politicians and special interest groups) that are creating the 'science' of 'global warming' rather than the scientists.

Are you sure?! I was fairly certain Bush was denying its existance as long as possible, as obviously he doesnt want to upset the oil tycoons that pay to keep him in office. Politicians are always going to disagree with eachother and ignore the truth to further their own ends.

from New Scientist:
"The first chapter was released in February and concluded that there was a 90% chance that human greenhouse gas emissions have warmed the planet. This second chapter looks at the effects of that warming."
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11562-climate-change-is-here-now-says-major-report.html

How long are people going to keep their heads in the sand? It's a fairly simple concept to understand that if you release certain gasses into the atmosphere en mass, its going to affect the temperature.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: One billion people in Asia face water shortages from warming [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6768714 - 04/10/07 04:43 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

> There have been many temperature swings in the past, but they've happened over many thousands of years, not over 50 years, as they have now.

That is a good point, however, my understanding is that with the ice samples and geologic records that we use to look at historic climate trends, the resolution is too small to be certain what the changes looked like over small time periods of 50 or 100 years. The best we can see is an average change over much larger periods of time.

> OK, human destruction of the planet is completely natural and excusable. Is that your point?

Almost.

Part of my point is that people are natural to the planet, and if people destroy the planet, it would be a natural process.

Another part of my point is that people have huge egos when it comes to where they live. We categorize stuff into natural and unnatural as if we are somehow special, or apart from the rest of the planet. It is this kind of thinking, with the ego, that leads to uncontrolled pollution and raping of the environment.

Finally, I never said anything about excusable. I don't know why people that want proof of global warming before jumping on the bandwagon are immediately demonized, as you have done. Please, show me where I stated, or even made a cryptic hint, that the destruction of the Earth is excusable.

> Are you sure?! I was fairly certain Bush was denying

My statement: " it is the general populace (and politicians and special interest groups) that are creating the 'science' of 'global warming' rather than the scientists."

Yes I am sure. You even illustrated my point by showing another politician, rather than a scientist, telling the world how it is with respect to global warming.

> It's a fairly simple concept to understand that if you release certain gasses into the atmosphere en mass, its going to affect the temperature.

Obviously it isn't a simple concept, or we wouldn't be having this debate. Throughout history, fairly simple concepts to understand have often been proven incorrect. How can the earth not be flat... how can the earth not be at the center of the universe... how can something I can't see make me sick... and yet, in this case, you expect me to abandon my teachings as a scientist and accept something because it is a simple concept for the layperson to understand. Thanks for the suggestion, but I like to think for myself rather than be a sheep to blindly follow where the politicians lead me.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: One billion people in Asia face water shortages from warming [Re: Phred]
    #6769222 - 04/10/07 09:33 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Well I know where I live, we have great water, and we take care of it. I can't speak for the rest of Canada. Either way, we have enough to last us for a long long time. Same with oil, but the USA will continue to take it all! :foreheadslap:


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Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: One billion people in Asia face water shortages from warming [Re: Redstorm]
    #6769678 - 04/10/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Canada loves the garbage. My state pays to send tons and tons (literally) of it over there every year.




In the book Infinite Jest, Canada was a vast wasteland that we sent our garbage to with giant catapults capable of launching the stuff a hundred miles or more. There was also a group of wheelchair-bound French Canadian terrorists.

I know what they do with the garbage. They ferment it and make Canadian whiskey.


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Offlinemr_kite
The Watcher
Male


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: One billion people in Asia face water shortages from warming [Re: Seuss]
    #6769996 - 04/10/07 12:15 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> There have been many temperature swings in the past, but they've happened over many thousands of years, not over 50 years, as they have now.

That is a good point, however, my understanding is that with the ice samples and geologic records that we use to look at historic climate trends, the resolution is too small to be certain what the changes looked like over small time periods of 50 or 100 years.  The best we can see is an average change over much larger periods of time.

> OK, human destruction of the planet is completely natural and excusable. Is that your point?

Almost. 

Part of my point is that people are natural to the planet, and if people destroy the planet, it would be a natural process. 

Another part of my point is that people have huge egos when it comes to where they live.  We categorize stuff into natural and unnatural as if we are somehow special, or apart from the rest of the planet.  It is this kind of thinking, with the ego, that leads to uncontrolled pollution and raping of the environment.

Finally, I never said anything about excusable.  I don't know why people that want proof of global warming before jumping on the bandwagon are immediately demonized, as you have done.  Please, show me where I stated, or even made a cryptic hint, that the destruction of the Earth is excusable.

> Are you sure?! I was fairly certain Bush was denying

My statement: " it is the general populace (and politicians and special interest groups) that are creating the 'science' of 'global warming' rather than the scientists."

Yes I am sure.  You even illustrated my point by showing another politician, rather than a scientist, telling the world how it is with respect to global warming.

> It's a fairly simple concept to understand that if you release certain gasses into the atmosphere en mass, its going to affect the temperature.

Obviously it isn't a simple concept, or we wouldn't be having this debate.  Throughout history, fairly simple concepts to understand have often been proven incorrect.  How can the earth not be flat... how can the earth not be at the center of the universe... how can something I can't see make me sick... and yet, in this case, you expect me to abandon my teachings as a scientist and accept something because it is a simple concept for the layperson to understand.  Thanks for the suggestion, but I like to think for myself rather than be a sheep to blindly follow where the politicians lead me.




Well, we both agree global warming is happening, I think its cos of humans and possibly also naturally to some extent, you think its purely planetary natural. Lets call it quits until some SCIENTISTS  prove it here or there. Instead of calling human activity UNNATURAL, would LIVING OUT OF HARMONY WITH OUR ENVIRONMENT satisfy you more? :wink:

You misunderstood my point about Bush, politicians etc...scientists do not agree with Bush. Ignore the politicians. They're not forcing you to listen to them. Listen to scientists that arent in Bush's arse. New Scientist is a very reputable British based reporter. They cut the bullshit.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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