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Offlinespectrem12
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Rye grain not growing mycellium
    #6764518 - 04/09/07 09:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Alright so it's been about 4 or 5 days... and I havent got any growth yet... I have 10 quart jars filled with rye grain that I had cooked until a few kernals had popped... Then pressure cooked...

Each jar does have the polyfil fiber for filters... I injected 1cc into each jar... but did not shake... I HAVE NOT shaken up to this point... So now it has been several days... and no growth that I can tell...

Just curious what possibly could be preventing any growth.. and if there is anyway to get it started? How long does it usually take for a jar to begin growth... These are the spores from shroomery.org... so they arent exactly the most filled syringes compared to home mades...

Any comments are appreciated


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OfflineIwantELVES
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: spectrem12]
    #6764527 - 04/09/07 09:47 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

5 days is still fairly early. If growth has started, it may be in the center of of the jars and not yet visible.

The rye I'm growing on took over a month to show visual evidence of growth; granted it was very cold in my house at the time (I seem to only be able to grow in Spring/Summer periods).

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OfflineBabo911
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: IwantELVES]
    #6764555 - 04/09/07 09:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Do you see water in your jars? Your grain should look DRY...

There are a million reasons why nothing is happening but moisture content is usually the main issue...


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Invisiblegeko
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: Babo911]
    #6764639 - 04/09/07 10:31 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If your grain is not too dry and if your temperature is not too low, you will see growth in 2-3 days.

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Offlinejohnnyboy
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: geko]
    #6765347 - 04/09/07 01:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

arent you supposed to shake the jars after you innoc them?


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Offlinespectrem12
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: spectrem12]
    #6765462 - 04/09/07 01:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Shaking the jars upon inoculation is still in debate... I did not..

The grain does look dry.. but still looks cooked and bigger just not glistening...

I have them incubated at 85 degrees

I mean... the only thing that should keep them from growing all together would be cold tempatures and no air exchange right? so as long as I have those atleast fairly decent levels... then with the right amount of time.. the mycelium should grow.. correct?

Can anyone else think of anything that might explain the lack of growth...


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OfflineCheesekiller
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: spectrem12]
    #6765557 - 04/09/07 01:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I shook the piss out of my WBS jars. They were pretty much fully colonized in about 1 week.



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OfflineCheesekiller
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: Cheesekiller]
    #6765574 - 04/09/07 01:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Oh yeah, They are in an incubator too!!


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Invisiblegeko
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: spectrem12]
    #6765696 - 04/09/07 02:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

spectrem12 said:

I mean... the only thing that should keep them from growing all together would be cold tempatures and no air exchange right? so as long as I have those atleast fairly decent levels... then with the right amount of time.. the mycelium should grow.. correct?




You do not need air exchange during incubation. In fact you need high CO2 levels and just a little gas exchange. If the grain is very dry you will not see growth. But it is very early to tell.

Quote:

Can anyone else think of anything that might explain the lack of growth...




Yes - impatience. That's the main reason :wink:

:sun:

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Invisiblefarva86
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: geko]
    #6765986 - 04/09/07 03:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

first of all u need to turn the temp in ur incubator down to 80-81. the growing myc will produce its own heat and the temp inside the jars will be ~4 degrees higher, so get those temps down.

my rye jars usually take 1 week to start showing me some myc, sometimes up to 2 weeks. my advice to u would be to put them up and make urself wait at least a week before u look at them again. constantly looking at the jars and exposing them to the light may reuslt in invitro pinning before the myc has finished colonizing the rye. also giving it time to grow between peeks will give you pleasant suprises.


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Offlinespectrem12
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: farva86]
    #6776663 - 04/11/07 07:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

So you think it would take longer if using a syringe bought online? Thats the only reason I can think of .... its been a week and no growth... and some people on here have growth in like 2 - 3 days...

But its wierd because I had growth in my PF jars in like 2 or 3 days...


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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: spectrem12]
    #6777086 - 04/11/07 09:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I gotta agree with farva on this,get those temps around 80 degrees and be patient,sometimes it takes me that long to see growth even when using a nice thick lc,with multispore expect it to take even longer

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OfflineBlehMaestro
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: spectrem12]
    #6777400 - 04/11/07 11:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

spectrem12 said:
Shaking the jars upon inoculation is still in debate... I did not..

The grain does look dry.. but still looks cooked and bigger just not glistening...

I have them incubated at 85 degrees

I mean... the only thing that should keep them from growing all together would be cold tempatures and no air exchange right? so as long as I have those atleast fairly decent levels... then with the right amount of time.. the mycelium should grow.. correct?

Can anyone else think of anything that might explain the lack of growth...




Be patient, and lower the temp a bit. The jars will start producing their own heat. At 85 it will start getting pretty warm, almost 90.

Get the temp down to 78-80 and you'll be golden.

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Offlinespectrem12
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: BlehMaestro]
    #6779219 - 04/12/07 02:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah... I now have the actual incubation chamber at 80 - 81.... but still nothing...

I guess Ill wait another week...


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Offlineshagg
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: spectrem12]
    #6779484 - 04/12/07 03:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yup yup


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Offlinespectrem12
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: shagg]
    #6783173 - 04/13/07 01:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

So I decided to go into my incubation chamber and shake one up...

and TADA!!! one of them was about 10 - 15 percent mycellium

I decided to shake all them up in hopes of finding more... but out of 12 jars... only found one with any mycellium...

any opinions or suggestions?


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OfflineCosmicFunGuy
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: spectrem12]
    #6783276 - 04/13/07 01:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

my opinion,

you posted this on the 9th that was day 4-5, it's now the 13th (day 8-9) .... chill out, you are freaking out about nothing, i've waited well over 2 weeks for multispore rye grain jars to show growth with and without shaking.... if you got spores from a sponsor, rest assured they are most likely not the problem, if you rye isn't too wet and was prepared properly your jars will more than likely grow, this does not mean that it will happen inside of 10 days (while yes some ppl have fully colonized jars in 9 days that doesn't mean you will).. listen to the advice given here, come back in a week and look then, you'll be much happier, you're likely doing more damage than anything by constantly disturbing your jars....

if they still aren't growing you may well have made a mistake, but rye is cheap and the jars don't have any obvious contamination and could easily be cleaned and reused IMO, so it's nothing to get down about, we have all had our failures, it's part of the human condition so the best we can do is get on with it. Order some spores from a sponsor and make sure to follow the preperation method exactly and this time leave them alone for a week before you even look after inoculation....

:mushroom2:

I planted some sunflowers over 2 weeks ago, some had germinated within 2 days, some just started to pop through the very same soil this morning. Nature has it's quirks and to some extent there is nothing you can do about it :wink:

This is why science exists, if we understood everything there'd be no need for it. Mycology is science, science takes time, practice patience....


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Offlinespectrem12
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: CosmicFunGuy]
    #6801599 - 04/17/07 08:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Im curious if the growth is so slow due to lack of FAE...

Im using the fiber not the tyvek envelopes... for my filter... my hole is 1/2 in diameter.. and the inoculation hole is just big enough for a syringe and it is taped up...

you think it is going so slow due to lack of FAE... or maybe the rye grain is to dry? I opened one of my jars that had some mold starting to grow and squeezed some of the grain with my fingers... They were pretty squishy and after squeezing them hard .. my fingers were kinda sticky...

No water dropped from the actual grain though..

Only two jars out of ten began to grow mycellium but have stopped growing it seems.

any opinions?


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Offlinejenerikcairet
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: spectrem12]
    #6801717 - 04/17/07 09:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

you want zero FAE during colonizing, you just want room for GAS exchange.


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Offlinespectrem12
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: jenerikcairet]
    #6808973 - 04/19/07 02:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

ok I have a typical quart jar with a metal lid

half inch hole with the polyfill fiber and another 1/8 inch hole taped up ... does that not provide enough GAS exchange??

why is there nothing growing?


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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: spectrem12]
    #6814099 - 04/20/07 09:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

spectrem12 said:
ok I have a typical quart jar with a metal lid

half inch hole with the polyfill fiber and another 1/8 inch hole taped up ... does that not provide enough GAS exchange??

why is there nothing growing?




That should be plenty enough for gas exchange

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Invisiblesantaclaws
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: Blutjager]
    #6818190 - 04/22/07 06:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

my friend is having a similar problem. 2 qt jars wbs, 4 pt jars wbs, and 4 brf/manure pf tek jars all prepared according to tek, inoculated with pan cyan syringe. he put the jars in incubation chamber and maintaied temp between 78-82 for 5 days and no sign of growth. he hopes hes just being impatient. this is his first attempt with pans and grain spawn.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: santaclaws]
    #6818212 - 04/22/07 06:44 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Spores in spore syringes tend to CLUMP together.
If the spore syringe you started with was near crystal clear.
And, was NOT shaken violently, multiple times.
Prior to inoculation.

Sometimes, you get almost all the spores in the syringe.
In the first jar or 2, you inject.
And, only a few, or even none, in the remaining jars.

That will sometimes explain why 1 or 2 jars, show growth.
And, others do not.

It's wise to shake the hell out of a clear spore syringe REPEATEDLY.
Before inoculation.
And, between each jar, you inoculate.

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Invisiblesantaclaws
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: agar]
    #6818239 - 04/22/07 07:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

the syringe arrived with one large clump of spores and was shaken well and after every use. the pf tek brf/manure is experimental to my friend, but with his previous experience with cubensis, he noticed that the 4 inoculation sites around the outside of the lid allowed the needle to inject against the glass, and the spores to run down. wouldn't this area be the first to colonize? he wonders if the brf/manure cake is too dense for pan cyans to spawn...


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: santaclaws]
    #6818276 - 04/22/07 07:20 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Spore solution injected directly into a manure based substrate.
Even in sterilized jars.
RARELY germinates.

It can be done. But it takes a very special substrate mix.
(in this case, custom blended manure based compost)


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Invisiblesantaclaws
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: agar]
    #6818301 - 04/22/07 07:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

the recipe was found here,vermiculite, brf, and manure compost. its mainly experimental.


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Invisiblesantaclaws
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Re: Rye grain not growing mycellium [Re: santaclaws]
    #6821290 - 04/22/07 11:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

ok i think i know where the mistake was made. the first 4 pint jars were a first attempt at grain spawn and the wbs didnt get soaked in nearly enough water, nor thoroughly cleaned. the second 2 quart jars were paid a bit more attention to, but still not quite right. now the third set of 3 quart jars have been paid very close attention to, as my friend is starting to realize there is no room for error. have faith that with a bit of tlc and a lot of patience everythings gonna go just fine. couldn't do it without you guys expertise. thanks for everything!


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to be equal you have to add or subtract, and i've never liked math.

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