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Flipping Jars - A Tested Fact or Just an Idea
    #6753607 -

I'm interested to know if anyone (A Moderator or Someone With Above Average Experience) has actually tested the "Jar Flipping Theory" to completely finish a 90% Completed stalled Rice/BRF/WBS jar? I am performing a test now unless otherwise answered by someone else's results using at least the following:

Supplies Used For Controlled Experimenting

  • 4 Identical Substrate jars 90% Colonized - Bottoms Not Colonized

  • 2 jars flipped over on their tops

  • 2 jars right side up


I'm going to leave the 2 sets of jars opposite of each other until 100% colonization occurs. Then if the set of jars placed upside down on it's lid colonizes faster then I would agree to the "Jar Flipping Theory" as opposed to letting time take it's course.

I'm interested in true tested controlled experiment results only.
I believe this will help out New Comers become more patient knowing that there's nothing feasibly safe to do other than provide plenty of darkness, 78-82 Degrees incubation temperature, Adequate Substrate Preparation, and good old time.

So in the mean while I'll be performing the above test as stated with pictures.

(Pictures will expand if clicked)


(Pictures will expand if clicked)


Thank You For Your Time. NFI


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-NFI-


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Re: Flipping Jars - A Tested Fact or Just an Idea [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6753906 -

If the bottoms didn't colonize due to bacterial contamination, it will have no effect. If the jars didn't colonize due to excessive moisture that ran to the bottom, it will help, by draining it to the other end of the jar. Some growers think flipping upside down is to release CO2, but this is incorrect. The heat produced by the mycelium produces circulation that does that job.

I've never yet had a jar that wouldn't colonize the bottom, provided it was made correctly to begin with, using the proper amount of water AND the correct jars, which you don't have. BRF cakes do best in short fat jars, such as wide mouth half pints.
RR


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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Flipping Jars - A Tested Fact or Just an Idea [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6753948 -

It works and that is all that matters to me. GL on your experiment bro! All we're interested here is aiding gas exchange but also sometimes in slightly wet jars the moisture settles to the bottom and flipping in this case allows the dry verm layer to soak up any excess water thereby creating healthier conditions for colonizing.


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Re: Flipping Jars - A Tested Fact or Just an Idea [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6754034 -

This particular experiment is a first time test using only salvageable jars around the house and a trusty PC. I am currently undergoing an experimental substrate that is consistent of primarily the PF Tek with WBS soaked and mixed in as well (For ease of crumbling for Cake2Grain and Casing). From a few threads, I've seen people posting about using a mix similar but never seen a grow log about such.

I truly believe with all of my research that Grains are the way.
  • The future holds Grains, Straw, & 1qt jars.
  • Ability to spread mycelium more resourcefully.
  • Faster Colonization rates.
  • Larger amounts at 1 time less jars are needed.


Contamination does not currently "LOOK" to be a visible concern but for sure a possibility. Jars upside down, excess moisture seeping down towards the top substrate leaving the bottom less moist may incur more growth if the extreme collected moisture is the concern (which I do not see either)? Time will tell in my experimental substrate, 3/4 pint jars, and "Flipping Jar Test".

  • In a day or two I will update the thread with results.
  • Currently Day 20 - 90% Colonization / Experimental Substrate
  • Strain - Gulf Coast - Multi Spore


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-NFI-


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Re: Flipping Jars - A Tested Fact or Just an Idea [Re: hyphae]
    #6754090 -

These Posts are exactly what I'm talking about.

RR:
Some growers think flipping upside down is to release CO2, but this is incorrect.

Hyphae:
All we're interested here is aiding gas exchange but also sometimes in slightly wet jars the moisture settles to the bottom and flipping in this case allows the dry verm layer to soak up any excess water thereby creating healthier conditions for colonizing.

Hey. I totally believe it has worked but does it always work? Maybe my cakes will never colonize completely but this small test and the information this thread collects will help out future experiments.
Perhaps cakes are so diverse (like all living things ) the next few days will give improper results such as 1 jar from each set of the Control Groups colonizing the bottom and throwing off everything.
That would cause means for a large testing group. It would also suggest that most people posting about stalled jars are just not giving enough time (Especially for Experimental Substrates and Newbs) and patience is a teacher of its own.

So debates are as follows:

  • {}CO2 Buildup
  • {}Moisture Buildup
  • {}All the Above
  • {}Or do I need to get 1qt jars and Rye Berries and use what I have of the cakes and Cake2Grain?


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-NFI-


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Re: Flipping Jars - A Tested Fact or Just an Idea [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6754112 -

yes flippin jars can and does work...

1st off do you have a dry verm layer under the lid?


If you have a dry verm layer under the lid...

flip the jar upside down(lid side down)...

hold the jar in one hand...

then strike the jar into your other hand(this minght take several strikes)...

until you dislodge the cake.


you want the cake resting on the lid...

with a gap between the glass bottom part of the jar and the cake.


do this back and forth a few times til the cake is really loose inside the jar...

then leave the cake sitting upside down on the lid...the last time.

put the cake back into the incubator.

and the cake should finish colonizing if it isn't contamed.


I've done this in the past with...

Tall 1/2 pint jars, Pint jars, and some really old odd ball size jars that I have that I have gotten from my grandparents that they had during the 60's.

The weirdest looking jar is the skinny tall 1 1/2 pint jars...

they have the small lids and are 3 times longer than a tall 1/2 pint jar...

they can be a pain in the ass to colonize without using the flipping the jar method!~


tc


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Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!

Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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Re: Flipping Jars - A Tested Fact or Just an Idea [Re: Roadkill]
    #6754170 -

  • Yes, the jar has a dry vermiculite layer and 1 small piece of Porous Sterile Medical Tape covering the inoculation point.

That detailed post was excellent RoadKill. Before you posted my jars are simply turned over on their lids. I will now give them a good striking against the table and an oven mitten. I'll be sure the solid cake shakes up and down in the jar.

  • Stay Tuned for experiment updates with pictures in a few days.


Other than 2 days ago these cakes have been colonizing fairly average.

Thanks everybody for helping out the experiment with Experience Knowledge.

Has anyone tried this strain via Multi Spore - Gulf Coast?


--------------------
-NFI-


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Re: Flipping Jars - A Tested Fact or Just an Idea [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6754189 -

Also as an way to visibly measure results per day or two I've used a Red (Low Fume) marker to actually outline the mycelium growth on the sides of the jars to keep track of the growth. This should help to see if the stall is complete or with minimum to full blast growth on either and all jars.


--------------------
-NFI-


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And Now For Some Results [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6760393 -

"Happy Easter Everyone"

Alright. So now two days of testing has gone by with solid evidence that the "Jar Flipping" technique is indeed, without a doubt a sure fix for jars with a bottom moisture problem.

  • Group "A" - Jars were flipped and left on top of their lids.
  • Group "B" - Jars were left lid side up.
  • Jars are in the exact same incubation environment.


This Photo Shows a side shot from a Group "A" Jar.
(CLICK PHOTOS TO EXPAND THEM)

This Photo Shows the bottom beginning to colonize.
(CLICK PHOTOS TO EXPAND THEM)


These Photos Show a Group "B" Jar left Lid-Side Up.
(CLICK PHOTOS TO EXPAND THEM)

(CLICK PHOTOS TO EXPAND THEM)


As everyone can see the jars left Lid-Side up (Group :cool: have not changed a single bit over the last 2 days of testing.
And (Group A) test jars are just colonizing like crazy.

So as everyone has stated the "Jar Flipping Tek" does work if moisture is the problem. My small test is now complete for my personal satisfaction as well as for others who were wondering.

And now to speed things along I'm going to transfer 2 of my 4 experiment jars into Double Zipper Freezer Zip-lock Bags to help spread the colonized substrate to the non-colonized substrate.

Also check these bags out I found on the shelf this morning.
(Should be perfect for PC'ing substrate)
(CLICK PHOTOS TO EXPAND THEM)


***I have yet to try these bags but they should be able to withstand the heat. Please comment on the bags if you have used them and they are not proper for PC usage.***

Thanks for your interest in "Jar Flipping Tek Test".
Have a great Easter.


--------------------
-NFI-


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Re: And Now For Some Results [Re: NotForIngestion]
    #6760406 -

glad that worked out for you!~

:smile:


tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!

Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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Re: And Now For Some Results [Re: Roadkill]
    #6764788 -

Mycelluim naturally grows AGAINST gravity, until it reaches a point in which it can grow no further. Then after breaking the ground, it reaches natural pinning triggers such as light, FAE, etc. (otherwise most natural fruiting would be done underground and we'd be digging in piles of shit for shrooms)

Inverting jars changes the gravitational pull, causing the mycellium to grow upwards, against gravity.


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Awwww....don't I look cute in my baby picture....

Edited by BOOM_SELECTA (04/09/07 11:07 AM)

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Re: And Now For Some Results [Re: BOOM_SELECTA]
    #6764865 -

BOOM_SELECTA said:
Mycelluim naturally grows AGAINST gravity, until it reaches a point in which it can grow no further. Then after breaking the ground, it reaches natural pinning triggers such as light, FAE, etc. (otherwise most natural fruiting would be done underground and we'd be digging in piles of shit for shrooms)

Inverting jars changes the gravitational pull, causing the mycellium to grow upwards, against gravity.


LOL! Sorry but gravity has little to do with growth direction. Mycelium grows pretty much linear from the point of inoculation in all directions. Eventually it always reaches the surface then as you said all the triggers come into play. Nice try though much respects for trying to help out.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Re: And Now For Some Results [Re: hyphae]
    #6764911 -

Glass is an insulator though and the heat will build up real quick at the bottom of those jars when flipped.  I flipped a couple of my last batch and after a good 36 hours they were about 10 degrees warmer than the jars that were left right-side up. 

Heat rises and easily dissipates through the metal lid, however when flipped that heat doesn't really have anywhere to go...

:justdontknow:

Just something to consider...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Re: And Now For Some Results [Re: mycocurious]
    #6764985 -

I had 6 half pint BRF jars 90% colonized and in a few of them the bottoms wouldnt colonize so I just flipped them over and dislodged them from the bottom container and they colonized within the next few days. For me flipping the jars did work but I have only done it once.


--------------------
SD prop 215 and occasional fungus cultivator

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