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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #6758284 - 04/07/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

However, given that society is an animal construct the only aim is to sastify biological needs.

I tend to agree here. It's not that humans only have biological needs, it's that society/culture serves only those needs as it's primary directive.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: GypsyFlowerChild]
    #6758287 - 04/07/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you Madam matrix.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #6758307 - 04/07/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Your question is equivocal; what you really mean is "has society progressed" because mankind has progressed further than any other species in terms of meeting the requirements of biology.




Please don't change my original question which sounded like that:

In other words, we might have the good technology but what about our minds?
And why in the world we find ourselves unable to do something constructive that can overcome out current problems?


Any other questions based oh that?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineFocusHawaii
Keeper of theMagic Garden

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 1,013
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Icelander]
    #6758314 - 04/07/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

A lot of social phenomenon like religion, obedience, power seem to have a biological root. All to ensure society doesn't impede survival.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Icelander]
    #6758324 - 04/07/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

People seem to be responding from a moral relativist perspective. While I think morality is flexible, I do believe in right and wrong. I think it would be silly to say that the lower level of violence today is not a good thing. And while there may be some people in the world who dislike the advancement of equal rights for women and tolerance for other views and people of different cultures, ethnicities, etc., those people are wrong. No, I don't have some comprehensive moral philosophy to demonstrate this, but it's true nonetheless.


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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 1,013
Loc: Canada
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6758325 - 04/07/07 03:48 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

How do you know it's true?

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #6758332 - 04/07/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I just do. Call it intuition, call it common sense, call it delusion if you want. I'd say that I know it because I have learned the lessons that society has learned. I'm building on the wisdom of the collective unconscious.


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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Registered: 12/27/02
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6758334 - 04/07/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I had intended to address SilverSoul's first post. Sorry about the confusion.

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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6758338 - 04/07/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

A lot of people with different standards could pick and choose following their intuition and the conclusions would be a lot different.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #6758344 - 04/07/07 03:55 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

FocusHawaii said:
A lot of people with different standards could pick and choose following their intuition and the conclusions would be a lot different.




:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #6758345 - 04/07/07 03:55 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

FocusHawaii said:
A lot of people with different standards could pick and choose following their intuition and the conclusions would be a lot different.



Perhaps. What I'm saying is that there seems to be an evolving collective understanding by which we can judge progress. It's not so much that society dictates what's right and wrong, but rather that it continues to learn right from wrong. And the progress continues.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6758366 - 04/07/07 03:58 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I think this has happened over and over as part of a cycle. Then the dark age hits and we're down and dirty all over again.:sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineFocusHawaii
Keeper of theMagic Garden

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 1,013
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6758371 - 04/07/07 03:59 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

How do you know what's right or wrong? Society isn't the measuring stick I'm sure.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Icelander]
    #6758378 - 04/07/07 04:00 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think this has happened over and over as part of a cycle. Then the dark age hits and we're down and dirty all over again.:sad:



Yes, Dark Ages happen and set us back, but I wouldn't say that they bring us back to square one.  They are just a temporary regression.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #6758385 - 04/07/07 04:01 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

FocusHawaii said:
How do you know what's right or wrong? Society isn't the measuring stick I'm sure.



As I already said, I don't have some comprehensive moral philosophy for determining this. The only guiding principle I have for morality is compassion and understanding.


--------------------

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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6758394 - 04/07/07 04:06 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

While I completely agree with your actions, I disagree with the means of reaching your conclusions. The problem is that people can come up with all sorts of compasses to guide their actions without the philosophy to back it up. However, based on existentialism I think that there is no right and wrong philosophy but instead personal responsibility, a huge part being that compassion that you admirably use for navigation.

Edited by FocusHawaii (04/07/07 04:12 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6758413 - 04/07/07 04:12 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I think this has happened over and over as part of a cycle. Then the dark age hits and we're down and dirty all over again.:sad:



Yes, Dark Ages happen and set us back, but I wouldn't say that they bring us back to square one.  They are just a temporary regression.




It's hard to say for sure. Especially if you are one who adheres to the belief that we came from some kind of garden of eden state. It's all been dark age since then.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Has mankind made any progress? *DELETED* [Re: Silversoul]
    #6760199 - 04/08/07 04:59 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #6760478 - 04/08/07 08:38 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Why do toy have to draw an abstract conclusion where there's no place for it?
Have we lost the ability to make the right distinction between a poetic poetic interpretation and a concrete one?
Aren't we able to find for each of them the right parameters?
Sure that such notions such as good and bad can be subjective.
But they're also obvious and they do exist as long as we use it as tools for measurement.
In real (provable) terms good and bad can be observed as effects.
No room for a "new age" type of concepts in this particular argue.

Quote:

Right and wrong (for me) vs right and wrong (for them); being vs non-being; Christan vs. Muslim; essence vs. non-essence...




:rolleyes:

Seems to me like an useless lamentation very much alike to the well known "who was first the chicken or the egg?"... and gives me the impression that you're making that statement from an "outsider" point of view.
It is wrong (since it harms us with provable effects in a visible way) to make discriminations. to sell third-world kids, to induce fears, to abuse power.
This ISN'T, by any means, as you're implying, a fundamentalist type of morality.
It IS REAL, it affects us, our lives, our minds, our health.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleMourningdove
Stranger
Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 399
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6760859 - 04/08/07 11:14 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

There are just more of us competing for resources. We are creatures of instinct who can not control our population.

Human sacrifice channels our violence. It is an offering of thanks. Probably the most civilized way to manage our instinctive lust for blood. Why is the murder of a human any worse than the murder of another species? Lot's of people fall into the illusion that the human is the most important life form out there. Just the human ego managing its own fear.

We are worse because we have passed our sustainability with in the place we live. Let's hope a pandemic takes us down to a billion someday.

QUIT BREEDING!

Edited by Mourningdove (04/08/07 11:20 AM)

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