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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Has mankind made any progress?
    #6752065 - 04/05/07 08:06 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Is humankind, as a whole, more morally and spiritually mature now than they were 3,000 years ago? It's a difficult question to answer. Pessimists will be quick to point out things like terrorism, environmental destruction, weapons of mass destruction, and so on. Perhaps I'm hopelessly optimistic here, but I think in spite of all this, we've come a long way:
  • Slavery is a thing of the past, except in certain parts of Africa.
  • Human sacrifice is pretty much unheard of today.
  • Despite media hype, violent crime is much less common today.
  • Free speech and freedom of religion are protected(and respected) in much of the world: Heretics like myself are safe from persecution.
  • There have been major advances in women's rights and tolerance towards different races, religions, and to a slightly lesser extent, sexual orientations.

Obviously, much work needs to be done, but I see hope on the horizon.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6752075 - 04/05/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Well, we don't have gladiatorial games any more. I guess that's a move in the right direction.

On the other hand, we have televised boxing, but at least that's voluntary. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
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Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 15 days, 17 hours
Re: Has mankind made any progress? *DELETED* [Re: Silversoul]
    #6752104 - 04/05/07 08:18 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by Lion

Reason for deletion: .


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Diploid]
    #6752109 - 04/05/07 08:19 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

in terms of the by-products of religion, like some of the things silversoul listed, I think we have progressed, but Im not really sure we have progressed on what I consider to be a key issue.

Religious tolerance. Now sure, we dont kill people for it, or burn them, but that is just a lesser sentence on an already guilty verdict..... the verdict still remains guilty.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6752144 - 04/05/07 08:27 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I think it's a question more of, are we waking up fast enough to deal with the fact that humans have taken over the planet and are wasting it in ways our ancestors could never have imagined. And our capacity to destroy life with warfare is also an new and dangerous event.

It's a difficult question to answer.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Lion]
    #6752162 - 04/05/07 08:31 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Not so. There are millions of people who are virtually enslaved here in the United States, they're just called migrant workers. Check out the video New Harvest, Old Shame. As one producer put it, "We used to own our slaves, now we just rent them." What amounts to brutal slavery still remains in Eastern Europe, the Middle-east, Southeast Asia, et al. The Philippines are a prime example of modern slavery - an economy which owes absurd and unpayable debts to the IMF and World Bank is forced to implement programs which essentially whore its citizens out to richer nations. The documentary Life & Debt, about Jamaica, is also a good example of this.



Granted, you could stretch the meaning of the word "slavery" to include a number of exploitative practices that persist today, but still, in comparison to the slavery of the past, it is still an improvement.

Quote:

"Human sacrifice" is such a vague term. We're not offering up virgins on the altar. But just look at Iraq - is this not human sacrifice?



It is not vague. Human sacrifice is the ritual offering of human life. It is not synonymous with other forms of killing.

Quote:

Quote:

Despite media hype, violent crime is much less common today.



Tell that to people in Detroit, Miami, Haiti, DR Congo, Iraq, et al.



Whether I tell it to them or not, it's still true.

Quote:

I see it as a kind of paper-thin tolerance. As Terence McKenna said, the multinational corporations want us all to be "Joe Everyman" - which means being vaguely friendly, into the new trends but not outwardly obsessive about appearances, tolerant of not to the extent of deviating from one's own culture's norms.



Paper-thin tolerance is still better than no tolerance at all. While black people may still have to deal with suspicious looks from others, they don't have to worry about being lynched for winking at a white girl.


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OfflineLion
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Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6752203 - 04/05/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Granted, you could stretch the meaning of the word "slavery" to include a number of exploitative practices that persist today, but still, in comparison to the slavery of the past, it is still an improvement.


You'd be hard pressed to call it "improvement" outside of the United States and other developed nations, and in my opinion the improvement here has been marginal. Just look at the conditions that migrant workers live in.

Quote:

Whether I tell it to them or not, it's still true.


Do you have data to back this up. Asserting that violent crime throughout mankind has decreased is a pretty broad statement.

Quote:

Paper-thin tolerance is still better than no tolerance at all. While black people may still have to deal with suspicious looks from others, they don't have to worry about being lynched for winking at a white girl.


Maybe you've never been to the deep South. Black people absolutely do run that risk to this day. And again, this is only in the States, where we enjoy freedoms a vast majority of the world population couldn't dream of.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6752231 - 04/05/07 08:47 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

This website is a testament to the fact that mankind has made remarkable progress. Take for example our ability to use language to express ourselves in more precise manners. Computers and the internet represent our advances in technology quite well - what was once a sharpened stick or a carved rock is now a quantam processor. :grin:

The humans and their civilization have advanced as well, and we as beings evolve much slower than our concepts, ideas, and technology in that all of these things are our manners of adaptation.

I have a sense that human beings are in their mid to late teens, as far as their species as a whole is concerned. We are just starting to become aware of ourselves and our circumstances, and learning how to interpret and interact with reality in order to further evolution. :cool:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6752257 - 04/05/07 08:52 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

The question was about moral and spiritual progress, Mr. sharp stick.:tongue::tongue2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Lion]
    #6752272 - 04/05/07 08:54 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
You'd be hard pressed to call it "improvement" outside of the United States and other developed nations, and in my opinion the improvement here has been marginal. Just look at the conditions that migrant workers live in.



Migrant workers choose to live in this country because it provides better opportunities than they would otherwise have. I hardly think that can be equated with literally being owned by another human being.

Quote:

Do you have data to back this up. Asserting that violent crime throughout mankind has decreased is a pretty broad statement.



I'll look up statistics later(it's pretty hard to find statistics for anything before the 18th century), but from everything I've heard and read about, the rate of violent crime in the Middle Ages(and going back to ancient times) was unimaginably greater than what we have today. That's not to say that there aren't some very dangerous places today, but overall, order and stability have become much more commonplace.

Quote:

Quote:

Paper-thin tolerance is still better than no tolerance at all. While black people may still have to deal with suspicious looks from others, they don't have to worry about being lynched for winking at a white girl.



Maybe you've never been to the deep South. Black people absolutely do run that risk to this day. And again, this is only in the States, where we enjoy freedoms a vast majority of the world population couldn't dream of.



My family roots are in the Deep South, and I have indeed been there. While racism is still all too prevalent there, your claim is utterly ridiculous. The few lynchings that have occurred in the past couple decades have been vigorously prosecuted, and most racists do not feel safe doing it today, as law enforcement is no longer willing to turn a blind eye to it.


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OfflineEpigallo
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6752296 - 04/05/07 08:59 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Progress towards instability. The human condition is becoming increasingly more poised for enourmous fluctuation.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Icelander]
    #6752425 - 04/05/07 09:32 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
The question was about moral and spiritual progress, Mr. sharp stick.:p:tongue2:




Of course it was. What's your point? The progress that I referred to are intricately linked to the type of progress the question was pertaining to.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6752455 - 04/05/07 09:41 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

. Computers and the internet represent our advances in technology quite well - what was once a sharpened stick or a carved rock is now a quantam processor. :grin:

Broad definition of spirituality and morality.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Icelander]
    #6752469 - 04/05/07 09:48 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Advancment in technology and science directly relate to spirituality as far as I define the term. I see spirituality as the path of becoming more aware of oneself and reality, and we have greatly refined our observation of reality in order to interact with it to produce our technology, which exists as the reflection of our application of what we have understood regarding the nature of reality.

This touches on a much lesser extent to morality, which is perhaps what I was indirectly referring to when I was mentioning the human as the aspect of ourselves that evolves the slowest, since we mainly adapt (up to this point, anywyas) through manipulation of our environment, as opposed to further development of ourselves. Morality hasn't seen as much progress.

If you still do not think they relate with the intention the question was placed within, then feel free, yet I personally feel that my perspective directly relates. Understanding reality, unobstructed observation of reality, using knowledge and understanding to change the manner in which one interacts with reality - all aspects of spirituality. :craven:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6752484 - 04/05/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I've always known you were a little strange. I can let it go.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Icelander]
    #6752518 - 04/05/07 10:06 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I consider myself to be at least somewhat unique. :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6752525 - 04/05/07 10:08 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

The internet and computer science in general are both solid examples of the progress that has been made by humans.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6752537 - 04/05/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Don't forget fast food.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineEpigallo
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Icelander]
    #6752620 - 04/05/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Which is just one little branch of the whole progress in commercialization...geeez

But the progress in commercialization is really only progress towards greater commercialization. We see this in technology too, greater progress towards greater acceleration; us adapting ourselves to technology instead of vice versa. And I would say the internet markedly declined in progress since its birth, it has become commercialized, and it is barely more interactive than the television for many people.

What about the progress in the health of the biosphere? Is the rate at which it is declining decreasing?

How about progress towards the avoidance of catastrophes (pandemics, weapons of mass destruction, etc.)

And progress in personal freedom, in this era of coercive marketing where others inevitably play with our subconscious?

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, just trying to define areas of progress. Well, maybe a little pessimistic, but this leaves more room for some one to fill in the space with optimism.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Has mankind made any progress? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6752666 - 04/05/07 10:43 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Were early men imprisoned for cannabis and mushroom use?

Did they freak out over sex?

Were there any commercials?

Case closed! :tongue:


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