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OfflineJayemJigga
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Electricity Question
    #6750965 - 04/05/07 02:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

K im not an electrition or anything so i dont know much about the whole power scheme. Im wondering would my mother notice on an electricity bill a difference when im running my light and my incubator..im not too woried about the light being 15 watt, but my macho 250 watt submercible heater i am. can anyone help me out in this area ?

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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: JayemJigga]
    #6750979 - 04/05/07 02:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i doubt she will notice.

but if she really really keeps track of her kwh she could.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]

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OfflineJayemJigga
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6750993 - 04/05/07 02:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

lol yeah moneys tight right now and she complains alot .

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OfflineCryogenicz
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: JayemJigga]
    #6751004 - 04/05/07 03:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I doubt she would notice.


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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6751013 - 04/05/07 03:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

jj:
"can anyone help me out in this area ?"
yeah man.
get your own digs.
don't put your mothers liberty at risk
just so, you can grow some shrooms.


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule

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OfflineEightball
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: deucedbi9]
    #6751028 - 04/05/07 03:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

so umm why you need a heater? and a 250w is like a couple $ per month to run max


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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.

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OfflineJayemJigga
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: Eightball]
    #6751042 - 04/05/07 03:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

she knows im doing it and i hide it well its just she was worried about money.

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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: JayemJigga]
    #6751043 - 04/05/07 03:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JayemJigga said:
lol yeah moneys tight right now and she complains alot .




as long as yall dont keep the house at 60 degrees you really dont need the heater anyways.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]

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OfflineJayemJigga
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6751056 - 04/05/07 03:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

the heaters for the incubator man. (fish tank) it will be running like 24/7 for a few weeks

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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: JayemJigga]
    #6751064 - 04/05/07 03:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i know what its for, you still dont need it.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]

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OfflineFrosty_Storm
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: Psychoslut]
    #6751275 - 04/05/07 04:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I grew mine at room temperature just fine. My room temp was avg about 71 degrees. Mycelium is very versatile =D


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~Frosty Storm~

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InvisibleBacchus
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: Frosty_Storm]
    #6751416 - 04/05/07 04:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Incubators are a luxury, really. Many people have fantastic results without them.


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Living on a no-Flash diet is way easier than you think. Give it a shot.

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InvisibleHipsterDoofus
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: Bacchus]
    #6751647 - 04/05/07 05:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Incubate at room temperature - makes life easy and solves problems.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: HipsterDoofus]
    #6751783 - 04/05/07 06:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't own an incubator and haven't in many years.

Electricity is sold by the kwh, which is kilowatt hour. That means a 1000 watt lamp running for one hour, will burn 1 kwh. In most areas, a kwh costs around ten cents. That means a 250 watt heater would have to run 4 hours to equal a kwh, thus 10 cents worth of electricity, provided it didn't shut off during that time. A 100 watt light bulb would run ten hours to equal 1 kwh, etc.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

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OfflineLord_Winter
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6753033 - 04/06/07 02:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hi people !

That submersible heater does not run all the time. It just activates for short periods (ten minutes, maybe) and does nothing for the rest of the time. Do not worry.

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Offlinedanr49
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: JayemJigga]
    #6753117 - 04/06/07 03:39 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JayemJigga said:
K im not an electrition or anything so i dont know much about the whole power scheme. Im wondering would my mother notice on an electricity bill a difference when im running my light and my incubator..im not too woried about the light being 15 watt, but my macho 250 watt submercible heater i am. can anyone help me out in this area ?



Why did you purchase a 250 watt heater? Is this in the garage where it's cold... or are you using a massive tank?

If you're using rubbermaid containers with less than 15 gallons of water in a heated home, a 50 watt heater is the appropriate choice for safety reasons according to the manufacturers, and it works perfectly as long as you weigh down the upper container so that the water level comes up between the two containers 2/3 or 3/4 of the way. It will heat the water slowly and evenly at this 50 watts. It will say on the sides of the boxes the heaters come in what size heater to choose.

When you use a 250 watt heater intended for huge aquariums of up to 80 gallons of water in an incubator with five+ gallons, a lot of heat will radiate directly up into the upper container, meaning that the bottom of the plastic floating container will absorb the infrared radiation and be hotter than the water beneath and the air above. Then, if you set jars directly on the bottom they can heat considerably above the air temperature in the incubator and higher than the water temperature too. I know, because I already tried with an old 100 watt someone gave me, and I realized it was too large to use. I think it's possible that some of the people complaining about problems colonizing have killed their mycelium this way (by using too large of a heater). The jars sitting on the bottom of the incubator were absorbing too much heat, while a thermometer above was giving them a false impression as to what the heat in the jars would be. Even with a 50 watt, the bottom of the floating container may be a degree or two warmer than the air above, and the water below depending on whether the heater is on or off, so it might be best not to set them directly on the bottom. The small temperature difference could be eliminated with a 50 or 100 watt if an air pump or something is added circulate the water.

Using a 50 watt heater is also a lot safer than a 250 watt. In the event something unexpected happens and the heater doesn't shut off in time, a fire could happen. With a weak 50 watt, this isn't going to happen because it doesn't get hot enough to ignite anything. It's the same reason why certain lamps say not to use higher than a 60 watt bulb in the event they get knocked over or something comes in contact with it.


Edited by danr49 (04/06/07 04:02 AM)

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Invisibleagar
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: danr49]
    #6753146 - 04/06/07 05:06 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Danr49,

You need to re-think that.

Larger wattage means a submersible heater (with thermostat) will heat a small volume of water, quicker.

Then, shut off.

So, it runs less time.

Before it turns on again.

Smaller wattage heaters have to run longer, to do the same thing.
So, they wear out faster.

Common sense mandates, running something at 1/4 or 1/2 capacity.
Will last longer than running something at max capacity.

Aside from this hobby, I raise/breed expensive tropical fish.
In 100 gallon tanks.

In the sump of each tanks trickle filter.
I have two (2) heaters.
Both are capable of heating a 250 gallon tank.
The reason for 2, is redundant safety factor.
In case 1 fails.

The reason both heaters have twice the heating capacity needed.
For a 100 gallon tank, is longevity.
They don't have to run as hard or as long.
As a heater rated for a 100 gallon tank max.


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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: agar]
    #6753359 - 04/06/07 07:56 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I say unless your house is freezing incubate at room temp,it really does not take that much longer and at least you don't have to worry about them getting to hot(This is why I have no incubator)

To answer your question though if you want to run it feel free,it shouldn't run up the bill to any noticeable amount

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InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: Blutjager]
    #6753369 - 04/06/07 08:01 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If a 250-watt device ran 24/7 for 30 days, it would cost $18 at $0.10/kwh. Where I live, it's $0.15/kwh, so it'd cost roughly $27.

A 250 watt heater is not going to run 24/7 though - it'll cycle on and off, so it would probably cost less than half of that.

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Offlinedanr49
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: agar]
    #6754133 - 04/06/07 12:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:
Danr49,

You need to re-think that.




I do? Did you read everything I wrote...
I've already tested this, as I said, with thermometers in the water, on the bottom of the floating tank, and above the bottom of the floating tank. The temperatures of all three stayed more even and consistent with the 50 watt heater.

And the manufacturers test them in a scientific manner, too, and give recommendations based on the volume of water to be heated to achieve the most consistent and even heating of the water. It will say on the side of the box what heater to choose for X gallons of water.

Quote:

agar said:
Larger wattage means a submersible heater (with thermostat) will heat a small volume of water, quicker.




Not evenly, because convection doesn't occur rapidly enough in H2O at these temperatures to evenly heat the water with too hot of a heater. When used in an aquarium, fish can be harmed or killed when a much larger than necessary heater is used, and there's typically water circulation in an aquarium.

And that's why some people here put a water pump in to circulate the water. What you'll see is water closer the heater being warmer, and water farther away being cooler. And much of the heat will "radiate" directly up into the floating tank and be absorbed by the plastic every time the heater comes on at this wattage. As I've explained, this even happens to a small and measurable extent with a 50 watt. After the heater's been running for a while, the bottom of the floating tank will be one to two degrees warmer than the air above and water below.

Quote:

agar said:
Then, shut off.

So, it runs less time.

Before it turns on again.

Smaller wattage heaters have to run longer, to do the same thing.
So, they wear out faster.

Common sense mandates, running something at 1/4 or 1/2 capacity.
Will last longer than running something at max capacity.




I don't know... do water heaters last longer when they are cycling all the time, or less frequently. A quick web search reveals others saying the opposite. Everytime the heater warms up rapidly, the components are stressed and expand slightly. I'd like to know what scientific testing reveals, though. Regardless, I'm more concerned with even and consistent heating of the incubator rather than what will make the heater last a little longer.

Excessive infrared radiation hitting the bottom of the floating tank from too large of a heater can cause the contents of the jars sitting on the bottom to get significantly hotter than the water below and the air above, especially when using a 250 watt where only a 50 watt or thereabouts should be used... i.e. what's heating the jars will be more than just the temperature of the water, it will be heat radiating directly from the heater.

Edited by danr49 (04/06/07 01:25 PM)

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Offlinedanr49
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: JayemJigga]
    #6754439 - 04/06/07 02:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You can get an idea of how much heat is radiating directly from the aquarium heater into the floating tank with an oversized 250 watt heater by folding up an insulating Nylon blanket or some other layered, insulating material, and pushing it down into the floating tank. Place an accurate thermometer directly on the bottom of the floating tank just below the blanket. Leave it there for many hours, and then come back and check the temperature. Don't be surprised if the thermometer temperature is much higher than the water below. It's from heat radiating directly from the heater into the floating tank. The substrate jars sitting on the bottom of a floating tank with a much oversized heater should also absorb and retain a lesser but still significant amount extra heat for the same reason.

A better experiment I haven't tried is to see what the temperature effect on actual jars of substrate is by sticking a probe down into the center of a substrate jar that's sitting on the bottom surface of the tank with an oversized heater set at 80-86 degrees.

The difference in temperature could explain why people have better luck in avoiding contams and faster colonization by setting the aquarium heater several degrees lower than 86.

The heater with the lowest watts capable of heating the volume of water in the tank to desired temperature should be used. Alternatively, if the tanks are large and there's quite a depth of water betweeen the two tanks, this will help to reduce direct radiation into the tank from the heater. Putting in an air pump to circulate the water would help even more, and offset the effects of too hot of a heater.

Edited by danr49 (04/06/07 02:17 PM)

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OfflineDiabloSmurf
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Re: Electricity Question [Re: danr49]
    #6754697 - 04/06/07 03:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

if she complains about the electric bill .... go pawn her tv and buy crack with the money ....i guarantee she wont say crap about the electric............roflmao im so funny:rasta:

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