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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: skipowair540]
    #6750621 - 04/05/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

skipowair540 said:
i get my dog high everytime i smoke she comes up to me when i have weed she has also eating plenty of packs of cigs and multiple bags of weed my dog is fine so all you people that are saying its bad just try it and youll find out the truth




Yeah, and I'm sure your dog got a nicotine buzz or a weed high from eating that shit. :rolleyes:


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Invisibleofficerfox
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6750628 - 04/05/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

yeah, like my cat and beer. fuckin loves the stuff!

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Invisibleslackophage
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6750638 - 04/05/07 01:11 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RoosterCogburn said:
I DO NOT agree with chasing down your dog and stuffing drugs in them... But almost ALL stories I hear people like you ranting about seem very positive, and include the animal "begging" for some.



:thumbup:

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: Cowgold]
    #6750666 - 04/05/07 01:20 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cowgold said:
/devil's advocate

Where is the report stating your claims?




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12182962&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum

You can look at the last few sentences of this peer-reviewed reference from pubmed where it states:
"Numerous studies have shown that THC is unable to induce a self-administration behaviour in animals."

Within this review (p. 159) it discusses several studies. There are 10 studies looking at THC self-administratoin in rats and rhesus monkeys. None were able to train animals to dose themselves with THC. If you'd like me to list each and every one of these I will.

These 10 or so (as well as "regular books") showing that animals will not dose themselves with THC is in stark contrast to the claims of "Dude, my dog loves it". Believe what you will, I know what I'm in agreement with.

As far as hallucinogens are concerned, I would refer you to the review by Dave Nichols (an expert in the field).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14761703&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_DocSum

specifically, on page 134 where he states: "There are no literature reports of successful attempts to train animals to self-administer classical hallucinogens"

Again, if you really want me to dig up some more references I'm sure I can.

So, it appears that under controlled conditions, when animals have the ability to dose themselves with either THC or most "classical hallucinogens" they will NOT do it. I think this is good evidence that they don't like the effects.

Observing an animal eating or licking something in the wild ONCE, does not mean the animal will do it again. If anyone can provide me with evidence other than: "I once heard", or self-published book and/or website I will certainly offer my opinion on the matter.

And doesn't this make sense? In human studies, subjects usually experience anxiety and nervousness after consumption of psilocybin. This is after careful preparation and a knowledge of what to expect. How do you think an animal will react?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6750672 - 04/05/07 01:22 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RoosterCogburn said:
I assume you take drugs... The first time was by choice or accident, but you went back for more correct?
What if you had no idea how to talk or communicate with words, but you liked the drug and wanted some more?
You'd probably walk over to whoever is in charge of you (your master) and lick his face, purr, bark or whatever whenever you detect the drug's presence.
It seems to me that alot of these "abused" animals do the exact same.
I DO NOT agree with chasing down your dog and stuffing drugs in them... But almost ALL stories I hear people like you ranting about seem very positive, and include the animal "begging" for some.




RoosterCogburn, this is an example of projection.
You are projecting human thoughts, feelings, inclinations, and psychology on animals.

If animals were human, then your argument would hold water.
They aren't, therefor it doesn't. Animals brains are not anything near as developed as the human mind. Do they have intelligence? Yes. Emotions? Yes. Are they equal or similar to humans? No. They are animals.

You can hold me in low regard if it makes you feel better-- "people like me ranting about..." is a dismissive statement that makes clear you are delegitimizing my points to rationalize yours, or because of because of some hostility you feel towards my views.

I expect you, as a thinking, rational human to be responsible for your actions-- but you can't expect the same of animals. And I think it's misguided to try and shoe-horn human reasoning into the actions of an animal-- it speaks of a disconnect from the reality that an animal is not, and can not, act like a human, or have human desires-- we only read into their actions that way to help US relate to them.

:cheers:


--------------------
I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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InvisiblezSDMF
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: coAsTal]
    #6750679 - 04/05/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

coAsTal said:
Quote:

RoosterCogburn said:
I assume you take drugs... The first time was by choice or accident, but you went back for more correct?
What if you had no idea how to talk or communicate with words, but you liked the drug and wanted some more?
You'd probably walk over to whoever is in charge of you (your master) and lick his face, purr, bark or whatever whenever you detect the drug's presence.
It seems to me that alot of these "abused" animals do the exact same.
I DO NOT agree with chasing down your dog and stuffing drugs in them... But almost ALL stories I hear people like you ranting about seem very positive, and include the animal "begging" for some.




RoosterCogburn, this is an example of projection.
You are projecting human thoughts, feelings, inclinations, and psychology on animals.

If animals were human, then your argument would hold water.
They aren't, therefor it doesn't. Animals brains are not anything near as developed as the human mind. Do they have intelligence? Yes. Emotions? Yes. Are they equal or similar to humans? No. They are animals.

You can hold me in low regard if it makes you feel better-- "people like me ranting about..." is a dismissive statement that makes clear you are delegitimizing my points to rationalize yours, or because of because of some hostility you feel towards my views.

I expect you, as a thinking, rational human to be responsible for your actions-- but you can't expect the same of animals. And I think it's misguided to try and shoe-horn human reasoning into the actions of an animal-- it speaks of a disconnect from the reality that an animal is not, and can not, act like a human, or have human desires-- we only read into their actions that way to help US relate to them.

:cheers:




oh you silly goose, i can detect my dogs emotions.  i don't smoke him out because i choose not too, but if i did i would know if he liked it or not.  that's the problem with YOUR argument imo, you clearly don't know animals.  if you did, you'd know they aren't just living pieces of fur.. they're smart beings.

Edited by OneMoreRobot3021 (04/05/07 01:33 PM)

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Invisibleofficerfox
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: zSDMF]
    #6750697 - 04/05/07 01:28 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

tru dat, z

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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: zSDMF]
    #6750710 - 04/05/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I have been a lifelong animal lover and owner-- and calling me names like a child has completely erased your credibility zSDMF.

Grow up and learn to argue like an adult, without arrogant personal insults.

I'm not playing into this flame-baiting any more. I've said what I think, regardless of your opinion-- you taking it personally is your problem, not mine.
I've said what I can say about my perspective here-- that's cool enough for me.

Best--


--------------------
I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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InvisiblezSDMF
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: coAsTal]
    #6750716 - 04/05/07 01:34 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

yeah you're right, joking on the internet erases all credibility i have. rest assured i really don't care. all i'm saying is you claim that an animal's argument isn't credible just because they aren't humans and that is some straight BULLSHIT.

i don't care how much credibility that statement requires, either. i'm not trying to beef you, and i sort of agree with you in a lot of places, but this particular part of this particular subject i disagree with.

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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: coAsTal]
    #6750721 - 04/05/07 01:35 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I figure, until you can actually verbally communicate with an animal and get a Yes or No from them, you really can't dose them. It wouldn't be right.

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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: coAsTal]
    #6750744 - 04/05/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

coAsTal said:
I have been a lifelong animal lover and owner-- and calling me names like a child has completely erased your credibility zSDMF.

Grow up and learn to argue like an adult, without arrogant personal insults.

I'm not playing into this flame-baiting any more. I've said what I think, regardless of your opinion-- you taking it personally is your problem, not mine.
I've said what I can say about my perspective here-- that's cool enough for me.

Best--




Dude, he just called you a silly goose. I somehow doubt he was actually trying to shred your character.


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Invisibleofficerfox
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: jewunit]
    #6750754 - 04/05/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

lol, no shit. the dudes gettin his panties in a bunch

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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: coAsTal]
    #6750757 - 04/05/07 01:47 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Of all the people in the world, I am the last to "project" any human thoughts into animals. I HATE people who think their dogs can talk or rationalize things like humans... you must have missed my point, or I wrote it wrong!

I am trying to say something very basic. Animals can decide what they like and what they don't, but they cannot VERBALLY ask for it. So, they do the next best thing, which is purr, bark, lick, fidget, whatever...

If they do not like something, they do not eat it. If they do like something, they come back for more. It's is only a human who would take drugs without really liking it due to peer pressure or something like that.

Animals are much, much more basic. And by "you ranting" I was not trying to insult you... I was simply lumping you into the same boat as the other 100 posters in the past that ignore all facts, and only see "an animal taking drugs" and then freak out. I apologize for any offense. :guinness:

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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: badchad]
    #6750761 - 04/05/07 01:48 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

Cowgold said:
/devil's advocate

Where is the report stating your claims?




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12182962&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum

You can look at the last few sentences of this peer-reviewed reference from pubmed where it states:
"Numerous studies have shown that THC is unable to induce a self-administration behaviour in animals."

Within this review (p. 159) it discusses several studies.  There are 10 studies looking at THC self-administratoin in rats and rhesus monkeys.  None were able to train animals to dose themselves with THC.  If you'd like me to list each and every one of these I will.

These 10 or so (as well as "regular books") showing that animals will not dose themselves with THC is in stark contrast to the claims of "Dude, my dog loves it".  Believe what you will, I know what I'm in agreement with.

As far as hallucinogens are concerned, I would refer you to the review by Dave Nichols (an expert in the field).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14761703&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_DocSum

specifically, on page 134 where he states: "There are no literature reports of successful attempts to train animals to self-administer classical hallucinogens"

Again, if you really want me to dig up some more references I'm sure I can.

So, it appears that under controlled conditions, when animals have the ability to dose themselves with either THC or most "classical hallucinogens" they will NOT do it.  I think this is good evidence that they don't like the effects.

Observing an animal eating or licking something in the wild ONCE, does not mean the animal will do it again.  If anyone can provide me with  evidence other than: "I once heard", or self-published book and/or website I will certainly offer my opinion on the matter.

And doesn't this make sense?  In human studies, subjects usually experience anxiety and nervousness after consumption of psilocybin.  This is after careful preparation and a knowledge of what to expect.  How do you think an animal will react?




They do exist!  Usually people talk out their ass and reference non-existent reports or studies.  The devil inside me keeps saying, "these are for lab rats and monkeys and don't represent the diets or behavior of the entire animal kingdom."  :grin:

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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: Maverick]
    #6750766 - 04/05/07 01:48 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DRTMaverick said:
I figure, until you can actually verbally communicate with an animal and get a Yes or No from them, you really can't dose them. It wouldn't be right.




YES and NO do not need to be verbal.

YES = The dog wags tail and accepts whatever you are doing.
NO = The dog bites you.

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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: jewunit]
    #6750768 - 04/05/07 01:48 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
Quote:

coAsTal said:
I have been a lifelong animal lover and owner-- and calling me names like a child has completely erased your credibility zSDMF.

Grow up and learn to argue like an adult, without arrogant personal insults.

I'm not playing into this flame-baiting any more. I've said what I think, regardless of your opinion-- you taking it personally is your problem, not mine.
I've said what I can say about my perspective here-- that's cool enough for me.

Best--




Dude, he just called you a silly goose. I somehow doubt he was actually trying to shred your character.




Actually he called him something else - but flaming isn't allowed in the Pub.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: badchad]
    #6750779 - 04/05/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
And doesn't this make sense? In human studies, subjects usually experience anxiety and nervousness after consumption of psilocybin. This is after careful preparation and a knowledge of what to expect. How do you think an animal will react?




Some would probably argue that people experience anxiety because they are briefed on what will happen. "Your perceptions of reality are going to change, you're going to experience ego death, you will feel different physically" etc. Wouldn't you get anxious? I'm not saying animals do or do not get anxious if they come in contact with psilocybin, because clearly I cannot know. But it is possible that they do not because they don't know what's going to happen until it does. So they eat the mushrooms, then they come up, and peak. They might not be comfortable, but it seems like anxiety would be a result of knowing what's going to happen, and that once consumed there's really no going back.

I also don't think animals would experience ego death, but I don't think that advocates giving them mushrooms or LSD. There are definitely various other effects that would not be good.


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OfflineCosmicFunGuy
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: jewunit]
    #6750801 - 04/05/07 01:59 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

from first hand experience with many domesticated animals...

One of my dogs first ate some cubes one day while i was away (my mistake, left some stuff out) luckily it was only a small pile of wet aborts and tiny shrooms. After that, the dog started coming near everytime i pick some (i know some of you hate the idea of dog near your grow, i guess its a good thing its mine) If my dog does not understand this experience i'll be damned because he begs everytime i pick... i do not give into this for obvious reasons, but it cued me to the fact that he likes them, so one day while weighing out doses i set .7 g dry on the floor he ate it(second time he tried cubes, first time it was witnessed), and he most certainly was tripping, maybe not hallucinating but i figure 1-2 g was good for a lvl 1 when i first started and he weighs half as much as me, so .7 shouldn't be anything too crazy... he was happy wagging his tail (more so than usual), played in the woods with us for hours... since then he begs everytime i weigh out dried doses as well (or empty the dehydrator)... i don't always give in but he wants it i'm not gonna deny him the ability to once in a while, while he may not understand the concept of using them in moderation as i do, he most certainly understands what he does and doesn't like and its obvious how he fells about things...

My dog has experienced mushrooms about 11 times now and has never been directly given, encouraged, or forced to take them always were just set on the floor for him to find and as soon as he's let in, he smells it out and eats it...

another one of our dogs on the other hand, hates em, he ate a piece of one and spat it out and doesn't go near them. I don't offer it to our other two as they are old and can hardly even walk as it is)
I think its more up to the dog and less a matter of an abusive owner. My dog wags his tail when he eats mushrooms, catches a squirrel and is called good boy. he tucks his tail and lowers his head when offered strawberries, apples (most dogs like apples) or when called a bad boy... he's very obvious and its no mistake to me that he knows what happens and likes the experience i have yet to see him run into a wall or puke on mushrooms (i have seen him do both without any drugs...) although i have seen him start walking then forget how to for a second while tripping..

hate me for it i really don't care, I'm not gonna deny my dog something that we both have an affinity for. he has the choice at anytime not to eat them and i have never allowed him to eat more than 1.5 dry grams...

as far as pot i have yet to have a dog that doesn't come running the second i spark up, only one has ever turned away when smoke is blown in his face, the other three don't even do that they stick their faces straight in people exhale clouds.... while yea obviously they don't get much that way, children don't inhale all of their parents second hand yet they get lung cancer while the smoking parent doesn't... it happens all the time... so your ridiculous explaination of why it does nothing is exactly that ridiculous.. one of my dogs (same one that likes mushrooms) will even puff on a joint i've posted the video here before, i forgot wheres its hosted probably google or something... he does it on his own its not shoved in his face its put in front of him and he reaches to it with his mouth and hits it (literally inhales and exhales, doesn't hold lol). even the cats come running when we spark up, the old one that died last year at 19 yrs old (old fucking cat) used to get up when we smoked and only then because being around it clearly made her able to relax more amidst the pain. Our two older dogs love it too one was hit by a car 7 yrs ago and has horrible hips but walks 10 x better when stoned because it clearly doesn't hurt nearly as much... while yea they dont get a lot they are smaller they dont need a lot and i smoke enough for them to get 'enough'....

even the cockateil sings more when we smoke... and the horses while i dont think it really affects them they certainly appreciate how relaxed it makes their riders....

I am a firm believer that just like we humans have some people who like drugs and some don't, animals are the same way some will partake in the experience others will abstain from it...

i dont condone giving your pets drugs in fact for the most part i'm against it, but if the animal discovers it on their own and clearly shows a desire for it i will not stop them from joining in, but will never force it upon them.. animals are my friends as much as my human friends are and i give the humans mushrooms often because they like them so why not give my dog the same option if he likes them...

just seems awfully stupid when pet owners just assume their furry little friend cant think for itself its an insult to your pet and you should sit down pet your friend and apologize for neglecting the fact that it has feelings and desires...

(as i wrote this i smoked and was eventually surrounded with 6 animals, who weren't even in the room when i lit it...)


--------------------


♫ ♪ In the garden of many fields, there is no me or you. There is no right or wrong. There is no up or down. There is no black or white. Everyone is the plow man. Everyone is the seed. Everyone harvests and everyone yields. In the garden of many fields, everyone is one with one love and one love is one with everyone. ♪ ♫
lyrics from: Transglobal Underground - Eyeway Souljah (from Psychic Karaoke)

Edited by Ganymede (04/05/07 02:07 PM)

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Invisiblememes
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: CosmicFunGuy]
    #6750947 - 04/05/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I'm having a problem with one particular poster:

First you post this - in which you call people ignorant pricks and dumb fucks:

Quote:

coAsTal said:
Anyone who purposely drugs an animal is:
  • An absolute asshole
  • An abusive pet owner
  • An ignorant prick
  • An immature dumb fuck


If you seriously think that an animal has the ability to understand the warping of reality that occurs during drug use, and somehow thinks it's a good thing, you are all of the above.

If you did it on purpose, you should be ashamed and embarrassed.

If it happened accidentally, you should just be embarrassed.

Jesus Christ.
:rolleyes:



Then, you post this, saying how blowing weed smoke in a pets face is OK because it doesnt get them high (even though shotguns ect. do get animals high, just like us [we are, in fact, animals])

Quote:

coAsTal said:
I stand by my position-- I think it's abusive to feed a domesticated animal psychedelics on purpose. I don't regard blowing pot smoke at a dog/cat as an issue, for the reason stated above-- it isn't going to get them high with that little concentration. I'm not a damned conservative either



And then you get sad/mad when people called you names, even though in your first post i quoted you called people dumbfucks and ignorant pricks.  (I ESPECIALLY like the part where you tell him to grow up and argue like an adult, without the "arrogant personal insults")

Quote:

coAsTal said:
I have been a lifelong animal lover and owner-- and calling me names like a child has completely erased your credibility zSDMF.

Grow up and learn to argue like an adult, without arrogant personal insults.

I'm not playing into this flame-baiting any more. I've said what I think, regardless of your opinion-- you taking it personally is your problem, not mine.
I've said what I can say about my perspective here-- that's cool enough for me.

Best--





I dunno  -  i'm just not following your thougth process correctly i presume?

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OfflineApJunkie
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Re: Getting Your Pet High [Re: coAsTal]
    #6751489 - 04/05/07 05:03 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

coAsTal said:
Quote:

RoosterCogburn said:
I assume you take drugs... The first time was by choice or accident, but you went back for more correct?
What if you had no idea how to talk or communicate with words, but you liked the drug and wanted some more?
You'd probably walk over to whoever is in charge of you (your master) and lick his face, purr, bark or whatever whenever you detect the drug's presence.
It seems to me that alot of these "abused" animals do the exact same.
I DO NOT agree with chasing down your dog and stuffing drugs in them... But almost ALL stories I hear people like you ranting about seem very positive, and include the animal "begging" for some.




RoosterCogburn, this is an example of projection.
You are projecting human thoughts, feelings, inclinations, and psychology on animals.

If animals were human, then your argument would hold water.
They aren't, therefor it doesn't. Animals brains are not anything near as developed as the human mind. Do they have intelligence? Yes. Emotions? Yes. Are they equal or similar to humans? No. They are animals.

You can hold me in low regard if it makes you feel better-- "people like me ranting about..." is a dismissive statement that makes clear you are delegitimizing my points to rationalize yours, or because of because of some hostility you feel towards my views.

I expect you, as a thinking, rational human to be responsible for your actions-- but you can't expect the same of animals. And I think it's misguided to try and shoe-horn human reasoning into the actions of an animal-- it speaks of a disconnect from the reality that an animal is not, and can not, act like a human, or have human desires-- we only read into their actions that way to help US relate to them.

:cheers:




How do you KNOW they can't have at least a smidge of analytical thought? you can't, your speculation is as good as anyones.

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