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InvisibleBrillig
Prodigal Son

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 236
Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN???
    #6744613 - 04/03/07 11:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I realize that, on some levels, this subject has been argued to death, BUT...I still think it's worth discussing...I hear a lot of people that work with it, but few posts about dramatic yields or multiple flushes...

Personally...I've found it fairly user friendly to this point (although, admittedly I have only recently cased any of the jars I've inoculated)...I am by no means an expert, but I definitely feel that the large kernels and the relative lack of nutrition in them, will probably result in a very small yield and even weaker subsequent flushes (if any)...Mind you, this is merely conjecture on my part, but it seems fair to assume...Also, I am interested to hear more about the contam rate, as I have just cased a few jars and I'd like to know what to look for...

I hear lots of negativity directed towards popcorn, and very few raves about it's performance...Does anyone out there have anything good to report on popcorn???


--------------------
My father started me on this hobby over 30 years ago...I ask  beginner's questions whenever they occur to me...Usually to stir the pot and get people's thoughts...When I post a REPLY...IT SHOULD NOT BE ACCEPTED AS GOSPEL TRUTH...It's just what I THINK...

PEACE ALL!!!

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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Registered: 09/14/03
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: Brillig]
    #6744704 - 04/04/07 12:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

:thumbdown:

I think it sucks!

Its prone to contams and bigger grains mean less actual surface area for the myc to colonize. Plus its expensive compared to WBS or rye.


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Invisiblep4kSouL
Animals Are Cool

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 3,666
Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: simplemachine]
    #6744723 - 04/04/07 12:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah ive hurd abunch of shit about pop corn. RYE!!!!

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Invisiblev1ru5
Student
Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 42
Loc: Finland
Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: Brillig]
    #6745101 - 04/04/07 02:52 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brillig said:
I realize that, on some levels, this subject has been argued to death, BUT...I still think it's worth discussing...I hear a lot of people that work with it, but few posts about dramatic yields or multiple flushes...

Personally...I've found it fairly user friendly to this point (although, admittedly I have only recently cased any of the jars I've inoculated)...I am by no means an expert, but I definitely feel that the large kernels and the relative lack of nutrition in them, will probably result in a very small yield and even weaker subsequent flushes (if any)...Mind you, this is merely conjecture on my part, but it seems fair to assume...Also, I am interested to hear more about the contam rate, as I have just cased a few jars and I'd like to know what to look for...

I hear lots of negativity directed towards popcorn, and very few raves about it's performance...Does anyone out there have anything good to report on popcorn???




Corn seed is a wonderful substrate with lots of nutrients, and it is good whether you're a newbie or a professional - although it might not be the cheapest option.

I'm a corn seed user and cannot figure out why many people here on Shroomery bash it. Ok, i'm a newbie but still - it works - works great actually, and it is very easy to obtain and prepare.

You can do corn seed without a pressure cooker too, but here on Shroomery many people will say that you need a PC to do grains. Just boil the corn filled jars 3 times (1 day between boilings) and it'll be sterile.

Careful on the moisture content though, it easily soaks too much water into itself. I'd say boil em for an hour or two, let sit for a few more and then take em off the pot and put in jars. I've let my sit overnight + next day to the afternoon and they got wayyy too wet.

Hope this helps..

-v1

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OfflineItsaMeMario
Stranger
Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 359
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: v1ru5]
    #6745114 - 04/04/07 03:04 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

for me popcorn colonizes way faster than wbs. sure i do get more contams with it but that is all due to human error and it also means that popcorn has more nutes to spare- or as my theory goes. yes, you get more myc per volume with wbs but that also means less room for nutes. where as it is completely opposite with popcorn, the factor becomes a key element in later flushes where i had more mushrooms from a popcorn casing than wbs at flush 3 & 4 and for popcorn only- even 5! so yes, i like popcorn very much. plus it smells better.

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OfflineComfortablyStond
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Registered: 03/15/06
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: ItsaMeMario]
    #6745124 - 04/04/07 03:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ItsaMeMario said:
for me popcorn colonizes way faster than wbs. sure i do get more contams with it but that is all due to human error and it also means that popcorn has more nutes to spare- or as my theory goes. yes, you get more myc per volume with wbs but that also means less room for nutes. where as it is completely opposite with popcorn, the factor becomes a key element in later flushes where i had more mushrooms from a popcorn casing than wbs at flush 3 & 4 and for popcorn only- even 5! so yes, i like popcorn very much. plus it smells better.




I completely agree. Though it's not the popular choice here, I've had a much higher success rate w/ popcorn as spawn than w/ WBS or rye. More flushes and more weight per flush. I guess in the end it's all a matter of personal choice.

Peace.
CS


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs. It's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times..." Bill Hicks

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Invisibleagar
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: Brillig]
    #6745143 - 04/04/07 03:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Millet has approximately 80,000 to 220,000 seeds per pound
(depending on type)

Grain Sorghum (Milo) has approximately 16,000 seeds per pound

Rye has approximately 14,000 seeds per pound
(+/- 8% depending on source of origin)

Popcorn has approximately >>1300<< kernels per pound.:rolleyes:

By size alone, popcorn loses.
By price alone popcorn loses.

Corn kernels harbor more endospores than the above grains.
Popcorn (once hydrated) is more prone to bacterial contamination than the above grains.

Hey, it works.
It's just not near as good as millet, Milo or rye.
(or, any combination of those)

Popcorn should be popped & eaten, with salt & butter added.
It makes a nice snack, while PC'ing better spawn grains. :popcorn:

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OfflineItsaMeMario
Stranger
Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 359
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: agar]
    #6745156 - 04/04/07 04:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

what is the factor of number of grains playing in this arguement? i bet sesami seeds have more grains per pound than any of the other choices you prefered above. but thats not making it a better choice than rye or millet. sure popcorn grains are bigger. and yes that contribues to less surface area per weight. but like i said, that means more nutes to dig in for those mycs that have colonized the surface. and bigger grains also mean bigger gaps which means better gas exchange. which means... thats right- faster colonization. and its established fact here that horse poo is the best sub of them all. but what grain do horses like more than anything? thats right- corn.

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Invisibleagar
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: ItsaMeMario]
    #6745164 - 04/04/07 04:33 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If 1 substrate has 15,000 points of contact to grow out from.
And, another has 1,300 (p/corn).
(If you comprehend exponential growth)
It doesn't take a genius;
to determine which substrate will colonize faster.

Millet, Milo & especially rye.
Have nutrients equal to or better than p/corm.

Custom made compost is a far better substrate than h/poo.
That is a fact.


--------------------

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OfflineItsaMeMario
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Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 359
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: agar]
    #6745171 - 04/04/07 04:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

dude, youre not counting the space inbetween the points. if the mycs have to jump grains 15000 times instead of 1300, ofcorse its gonna take longer. that is my theory and ive proven it to myself over and over again in the last 3 months of switching back and forth between corn and wbs.

oh wait i thought we were talking about how fast it colonizes inside the jar. thats what i was talking about the whole time. yeah ofcorse wbs colonizes faster on a casing but if you were to combine that with the extra amount of time it requires inside the jar compared to popcorn, i think this is an arguement that might require further probing.

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Invisibleagar
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: ItsaMeMario]
    #6745183 - 04/04/07 04:55 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)



:grin:








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OfflineJayemJigga
Stranger


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 131
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: agar]
    #6745397 - 04/04/07 08:04 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

this is a great thread ive been wondering these for quite some while, thanks agar ....very informative .

Peace

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: JayemJigga]
    #6745645 - 04/04/07 09:54 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I've typed this a gazillion times already, but here it goes yet again. The large kernel size, means a larger space between the kernels, thus more WASTED space in a jar. You can observe this by simply looking. The larger kernel size also means less total surface area within the jar, thus LESS mycelium is produced. It's no secret that a quart of popcorn will colonize faster than a quart of rye, but it has only about 10% as much mycelium as the same sized jar of rye, therefore it's MUCH slower than rye for producing mycelium.

In addition, as agar pointed out above, there are far fewer inoculation points with popcorn, therefore it doesn't go nearly as far when used to spawn to bulk.

There is no doubt that despite its higher contamination rate, it does work, but you could get the same results with rye or wbs by simply using 1/10th of a jar to inoculate a substrate rather than the whole jar.

Once spawned, the larger kernels are more prone to drying out, which weakens the mycelium on them, then when re-hydrated, the mold spores that have landed get the advantage over the weakened mushroom mycelium, therefore the higher contamination rate also continues right through fruiting, with more trichoderma contamination later on down the line.

In short, if there's NOTHING else available, use popcorn as a last resort, but only while you look for something more suitable. You're paying twice the price per pound of product to get ten percent of the mycelium, and that assumes that you have 100% success, which you won't.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: agar]
    #6745698 - 04/04/07 10:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

agar said:

Popcorn should be popped & eaten, with salt & butter added.

It makes a nice snack, while PC'ing better spawn grains.

:popcorn: 




lolzz

Exactly!~

:popcorn: <--tasty!~


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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InvisibleArp
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: Brillig]
    #6745723 - 04/04/07 10:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

popcorn & straw has served me well and brought me lots of mushrooms and
no contaminations (only when my casing was too moist & dense).
works well when other substrates are hard to come by :sun:

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Offlineresin
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: Arp]
    #6745780 - 04/04/07 10:38 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I used to use it and nobody had a problem with it(it was when it became popular.I dident have a problem with it, and had virtually no contamn rate on jars and 1st flush(the only one I worried about). I liked it because i could buy popcorn at the kroger, and was alot easier preparing than rye/millet, which always clumped for me.Also, if your worried about grain#'s, why not use crushed corn? I believe I remember it colonizing faster, and having a much greater grain count. Where is a good rye tek?

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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: resin]
    #6745873 - 04/04/07 11:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------
     

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InvisibleMeetMeInEleusis
employee,ministry oftruth

Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 223
Loc: atop an isolated mountain...
Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? *DELETED* [Re: simplemachine]
    #6745909 - 04/04/07 11:15 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by MeetMeInEleusis

Reason for deletion: ..


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OfflineLBMushroom
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: MeetMeInEleusis]
    #6745976 - 04/04/07 11:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Popcorn is a little more expensive I suppose but completely affordable... It's not like this stuff is so expensive you'll break the bank buying it rather than any other grain. It's like, a dollar for two pounds at Wal-Mart. Usually bulk grows use straw anyway so I'm not sure who would need more than 15-20lbs ($8-$10 bucks) for a very substantial grow.

I like the idea of popcorn cause it colonizes faster than anything I've heard of (nice spaces for air + easy to shake up), its nutritional value is adequate, and contamination rate is very low when done right (not too much water!).

Also, why are you guys worrying about volume or the number of grains? It's probably better to focus on dry mass of the endosperm for nutritional value and surface area for colonization rate.

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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Anyone care to register their feelings on POPCORN??? [Re: LBMushroom]
    #6746460 - 04/04/07 01:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LBMushroom said:


contamination rate is very low when done right (not too much water!).




Even when done perfectly I still say popcorn has a higher contam rate. Just because you haven't seen it personally, doesn't mean it isn't true. :wink:

Quote:



Also, why are you guys worrying about volume or the number of grains?  It's probably better to focus on dry mass of the endosperm for nutritional value and surface area for colonization rate.




I think RR and Agar did a pretty good job answering that one.

When you spawn popcorn to a bulk substrate there are hundreds fewer inoculation points per cubic inch, which mean the substrate will colonize slower.

This plus cheapness and easy use/prep make WBS a clear choice.

I think the better question is what is good about popcorn?

The only answer I've heard is its nutritional content, and that goes right out the window if you're planning to spawn to a good bulk sub.


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