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Offlinenugsarenice
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Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian
    #674039 - 06/12/02 12:48 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

A new court case has opened up to damages, land claims, political independency regarding the native hawaiians, the u.s. defense counsel seems as if they are bringing alot of good evidence to suggest that native hawaiians are not actually native hawaiians, and they have no right to the above claims. I really don't belive an arguement of this sort would win any jury, however, I think this is a differnet type of bearucratic court show.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: nugsarenice]
    #674107 - 06/12/02 03:33 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

who cares?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblesuperpimp
The boss of thefamily

Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 8,706
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: nugsarenice]
    #674274 - 06/12/02 07:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Just give them a casino. That'll shut them up, it always does.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: Innvertigo]
    #674885 - 06/12/02 02:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

it is definitely an issue for me to care about, because I believe a seperate government entity run by hawaiians would be better, if it were ever be empowered by the u.s. government, then the u.s. government would falter. I would follow the hawaiians to politics before white people, call me a hyprocrite for being white, etc. call me a hitey, whatever...


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: nugsarenice]
    #674910 - 06/12/02 02:43 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

**** call me a hyprocrite for being white, etc. call me a hitey, whatever..****

i wouldn't call you them names....but nut job does come to mind

last i remember states can't suceed(sp) from the union.....move em to canada and you may have something


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: Innvertigo]
    #674942 - 06/12/02 02:59 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

it's different from a succession, however they do bring up the illegality of the u.s. poltical presense here, they have been lobbying the u.n. I think they generally only want the freedom granted to the n.m indians.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: nugsarenice]
    #675008 - 06/12/02 03:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

the U.N. doesn't have jurisdiction over them issues...DUH!!!


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: Innvertigo]
    #675014 - 06/12/02 03:35 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

If nugs and all the other socialists had their way, the U.N. would have jurisdiction over the globe.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: ]
    #675136 - 06/12/02 04:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

What's funny is that he falls for every conspiracy theory out there but wants to run to the U.N. for help..Isn't the U.N. out to take over the world? Minus the tin foil hat wearers ofcourse


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: nugsarenice]
    #675690 - 06/12/02 09:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I grew up in Hawaii and I think that the current U.S. government is losing an opportunity to atone for some real evils committed by former U.S. governments against native peoples.

The Hawaiian movement has faced all kinds of resistance from the government, state and federal, for years now. It's really disgraceful, in my opinion.

hongomon


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: hongomon]
    #676258 - 06/13/02 09:57 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Life's a bitch. We've all had our difficulties, they need to get over it. The great thing about this country is that you can leave whenever you want.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: Innvertigo]
    #676272 - 06/13/02 10:12 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Innvertigo wrote:
"The great thing about this country is that you can leave whenever you want. "

Unless you're imprisoned as any "enemy combatant" with no charges being filed against you, no evidence submitted for an indictment, and no legal representation allowed - merely the accusations of the federal police state.


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: Innvertigo]
    #677156 - 06/13/02 07:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

"The great thing about this country is that you can leave whenever you want."

That saying was stupid long before it was a cliche. It's especially stupid as a cliche, and it's an ESPECIALLY stupid cliche when it's used regarding indigenous people, in other words THE ORIGINAL INHABITANTS. The United States fails the human rights issue hands down when it comes to native peoples. If that's not embarrassing enough for us, we have certain lunkheads spouting idiocies like, "Life's a bitch. We've all had our difficulties. Get over it."

The Hawaiian sovereignty movement took an ancient culture away from the edge of extinction and is putting it back into the Hawaiian people. In the late 70s there were like a dozen people left who spoke fluent Hawaiian, and now you can see television shows on public television all in Hawaiian. The renaissance has been very good for the communities here and hopefully it will continue to grow.



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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Registered: 05/21/01
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: hongomon]
    #677459 - 06/13/02 11:56 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Tell me...could you name a few countries that have not at at the very least one time in their history conquered or occupied a native people's land to expand their boarders? And how the United States is different from everyone else in this aspect? Nothing wrong with Native Americans keeping their culture...but succeeding from the U.S. as in the case of Hawaiians or any other group/tribe is not an option. They/we are apart of the U.S. now.


--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #678034 - 06/14/02 10:12 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

What do your questions have to do with anything?

Within the Hawaiian movement, there are plenty of more plausable positions, and actual secession is only on the agenda of a particular extreme. The majority of Hawaiian activists, and sympathizers like nugsarenice and myself, are pushing for things like land, official recognition (you might be surprised how important, and how difficult to attain, official federal recognition is), and other forms of autonomy.

As things stand, there is an Office of Hawaiian Affairs, but the government has made it clear that anyone, even a freckly Irishman, can preside over the OHA, and that anyone, even a bearded Hindu, can vote in it. Not exactly autonomous.

A couple of links, if you're interested

http://starbulletin.com/2001/01/31/news/story1.html
http://www.house.gov/mink/native_hawaiians.html


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: ]
    #678059 - 06/14/02 10:24 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

and this has what to do with hawaii?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: hongomon]
    #678069 - 06/14/02 10:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

****That saying was stupid long before it was a cliche. ****

however it is still a fact and those that hate this country is free to go to a better one. Cliche' or not the message is still quite clear.

***It's especially stupid as a cliche, and it's an ESPECIALLY stupid cliche when it's used regarding indigenous people, in other words THE ORIGINAL INHABITANTS. ****

like i said lifes a bitch...are we the only people on Earth that conquered THE ORIGINAL INHABITANTS? Instead of saying how stupid things are why don't you examine what is actually being said, and the meaning behind it.

***The United States fails the human rights issue hands down when it comes to native peoples****

My God are you ignorant....We pale in comparison to most European and African countries

****If that's not embarrassing enough for us, we have certain lunkheads spouting idiocies like, "Life's a bitch. We've all had our difficulties. Get over it."****

See above

*****The Hawaiian sovereignty movement took an ancient culture away from the edge of extinction and is putting it back into the Hawaiian people****

good for them. i like to see people honor their culture, however this is still the United States


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblesuperpimp
The boss of thefamily

Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 8,706
Loc: Philadelphia/NYC
Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: Innvertigo]
    #678151 - 06/14/02 11:20 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

So, no one likes my casino idea? We've been buying off every other tribe in the US with free gambling licenses, why not the Hawiians too? It's a license to print money, so they have nothing to complain about any more. I wish I was an indian so I could get a free casino.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: superpimp]
    #678212 - 06/14/02 12:07 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I like the casino idea.....bribes are the american way....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Native Hawaiians, are not actually Native Hawaiian [Re: Innvertigo]
    #678275 - 06/14/02 12:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Let me make this really plain for you, invertigo. Human rights is not a game of comparison. America is the greatest example of democracy--democracy is a political philosophy BASED on INALIENABLE HUMAN RIGHTS.

If we insist on being content as the lesser of all the world's evils, then we will be pretty damn evil, because you're right, there is some pretty fucked up shit in the world.

Personally, I'm not willing to play the comparison game to defend the fucked up things WE do, that OUR government does or has done. I love my country, and I feel justified in holding it to a higher standard BECAUSE it is based on higher standards.

Democracy is only as good as we make it, my friend.


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