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Invisiblespiritualemerg
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Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 366
Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: kaiowas]
    #6734144 - 04/01/07 09:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)


MarkostheGnostic: Here's a little schooling from the one with the credentials that seem to intimidate you.

As long as we're playing lecture mode let's get one thing straight -- I am not intimidated by your educational credentials, it is your bias and the depth of your ignorance that I find objectionable.

'Remove the beam from your own eye before you point at the dust mote in another's eye.'

Precisely. Do you think you are capable of walking the walk?

I don't remember "belittling" paranoid schizophrenics, I remember suggesting that individuals with this disorder seem to post here with regularity. Did you hear some inappropriate joke about people's illnesses? I wasn't joking or "belittling."

Fortunately, there is a written copy of your words up above. I suggest you back up and read them.

Moreover, like a Bipolar Disordered individual who refuses to take medication because they enjoy manic highs, untreated schizophrenics can and do ill-effect unaware people.

I see. So, like most of your kin in western culture you don't have a clue how to help individuals move into full recovery from psychosis and schizophrenia but you do know how to throw a pill at them.

No Freudian slip, no fast typing. I choose my words carefully.

Again. Go back and read your words to see if you said what you intended to say.

My take on mental illness is that I am tolerant about hanging with people as long as they are not harmful or dangerous to others - including myself.

Please do point out to me (and anyone else who may be reading) where anyone currently identified as schizophrenic in this community has presented the risk of harm to self or others.

So either you are standing up for a malicious, albeit sick, individual on this forum, you are defensive because a loved one has the disease, or you are taking offense because you are suffering from the malaise yourself.
    a.) Are you referring to the individual who made the posts you labelled as "evangelical" and "fundamentalist" -- is that who you're calling malicious and sick? Could you clarify precisely who you were referring to while choosing your words carefully so as not to violate the community standards as laid out, i.e., it's about discussing ideas, not "personalisms".

    b.) I have been talking to "schizophrenics" for a number of years now and yes, they do seem to have a place in my heart. I do not hold the same opinion you seem to hold of them.

    c.) You seem to be quite aware of the fact that I've gone through the experience that is considered to be psychosis and/or schizophrenia in this culture. Given your defensive stance on the issue I can only presume that you find something about that to be personally threatening.

Whichever one it is, you are reacting with far too much emotion for it to be just a matter of principle.

God knows, we wouldn't want to be getting hysterical and paranoid now, would we?

If you don't like it, feel free to get a second opinion. After all, I'm not your doctor and you haven't paid me a fee.

Usually I charge extra for spankies Markos, but in your case... I figure I can afford a little generosity.

Have a nice day.


.


--------------------
~ Kindness is cheap.  It's unkindness that always demands the highest price.

Blogs: Spiritual Emergency | Spiritual Recovery | Voices of Recovery | A Jungian Approach to Psychosis


Edited by spiritualemerg (04/01/07 09:40 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: spiritualemerg]
    #6734345 - 04/01/07 11:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

"spankies"?

As my mom used to say, "Why don't you go bang your head against a wall?" :banghead:
You'll probably feel better than you feel right now, then you too might have a nice day! :psychsplit:


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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6734691 - 04/01/07 02:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I am undeserving of salvation. I am wicked. I am no better than anyone here. It is through God's undeserved loving kindness that we are saved, but we must have faith in the true God, not in our works or any false Gods. Read the bible, get to know Christ Jesus as he really is, admit your faults and accept his mercy and you shall be saved. If you do not believe, do not repent, do not persevere in faith, invite God's spirit into you, and allow him to take control of your life, you condemn yourself to death.

I only post here for those that will believe, not those that don't.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: Demotriton]
    #6734719 - 04/01/07 02:21 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

you condemn yourself to death.





:rofl2:  No one gets out of here alive, kiddo!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: Demotriton]
    #6734801 - 04/01/07 02:57 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Um...I wonder how old you are, because your level of presumption here is on a par with late adolescence, which might be mid 20s. I hope you don't think I'm being too presumptuous about your psychological development. After all, cognitive development is only an 'aspect' of your entire beinghood. On the other hand, you have not asked me directly about my take on Christ, or more to the point, if I have a relationship with Christ! So, you presume to insert yourself into the MOST intimate connection I have as a human being - between me and the relationship with my Maker! Lastly, you have interpreted the words of New Testament writings - most of which are letters written by Paul to young churches - as the very basis for your verbal communication to strangers such as myself.

I know the letters of Paul, not only that, I'm aware which ones are probably genuine and which ones were written by others in his name, even after Paul's death. If you are unaware of the obvious differences between the 'egalitarian Paul' and the 'misogynistic Paul' (for example), then you probably still believe that Mark, Matthew, Luke and John are names of people who walked around with Jesus and who were the same people who wrote the Gospels by the same names! If that accurately describes your perspective, we are done before we have begun. Why? Because if fishermen and tradesmen in 1st century Judea writing in exquisitely subtle Greek, with very markedly different philosophical agendas can only be explained by the Holy Spirit being channelled by them, then it is time that you questioned the traditional 'explanations' that have been handed down to you, and time to “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (with assistance). Lesson #1: Ask before you presume.

BTW, I am not offended, only weary of this kind of approach that I first encountered at age 19 (1972).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisibleimplicitli
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: hot48yearolds]
    #6734980 - 04/01/07 04:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

As far as I can tell, the evangelical threads do the best in this forum.

I bet that hard core christians post on this site to hone their skills. If they can convince someone here, then they probably feel that they have really done god's work - and they didn't even have to leave the house to do it.


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Offlinearyah
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: Demotriton]
    #6735008 - 04/01/07 04:15 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Demotriton said:
I only post here for those that will believe, not those that don't.




this illustration (since by whats said here it would seem theres no hope of a conversation, i have no wish to believe in christianity, i find most of its ideas intensly offputting, though they have beautifull art) lands us back nicely on the subject of this thread - why not for those that don't as well?

Isnt the forum suppose to be about open discussion? Shouldnt one be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported here?
If one doesnt wish his views challenged, isnt that post for the 'no criticism' forum?


Edited by aryah (04/01/07 04:22 PM)


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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: aryah]
    #6736792 - 04/02/07 01:55 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

aryah said:
Quote:

Demotriton said:
I only post here for those that will believe, not those that don't.



i have no wish to believe in christianity, i find most of its ideas intensly offputting,





For anyone who doesn't believe in God the way he really is as written in the bible there is no hope until he believes. So many here are so far from God I am only posting the basics.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6736889 - 04/02/07 02:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I consider myself to be Christian, but I am certainly not the two-dimensional sort of Christian who is called 'Fundamentalist' or 'Evangelical.' Such individuals usually seem to have a combination of extraverted personality type (which gloms onto non-inner-directed Christian 'directions'), an often pathological need for 'perfection' (which is enacted through rigid, often Obsessive-Compulsive moral imperatives), and a
Superiority Complex and power motive which is frequently confounded with the Holy Spirit (i.e., the Holy Spirit 'saves' people, not loud-mouthed evangelists).

It seems pretty obvious that this brand of Christian is here to 'save' the sinners that populate this site. However, we are ALL sinners according to the wretched doctrine of Original Sin (penned by Augustine, not Biblical authors btw). So the Superiority Complex operates (as complexes do) in an autonomous way which creates a psychological 'blind spot.' In other words, everyone else is a sinner, but the evangelizer experiences him/herself in a superior state of being (e.g., 'saved,' 'washed in the blood of the lamb,' etc.). While such a person will admit to being a sinner if asked, it is lip-service because the affect underlying the humble admission is rooted in the superiority complex or the Messianic Complex (which also feels superior). Then, to make matters even worse, Schizophrenics, Paranoid Type, post here, speaking in the first person because their Complex has usurped their personality, and they want Shroomerites to think that very God is talking through them. Check it out!

What blows my mind is that I get accused of using "psycho-babble" by these types of professing Christians when in fact, I am not babbling at all. I am speaking from years of analytical education and training. And what's worse is that more people do not question the underlying psychology of people who adopt these forms of religion with which they go out to assail and assault humanity.


Mental illness very often takes a religious form. Nazism was a religious movement and a whole nation went mad. Muslim suicide bombers are violently insane, believing propagandized delusions about perpetual sexual intercourse with forever young celestial virgins who have translucent skin and ruby marrow in their pearlescent bones. Japanese Kamakazi suicide bombers were taught that just by reciting "Nama Amida Butsu" - In the Name of Amida Buddha - the Buddha of Infinite Light, mass killing and their own death would result in arrival in the Buddhist 'Pure Land.' Fundamentalist Christians have their own delusions based on symbols found in Revelations. Why delusions? Because of Transcendental conditions, 1 Corinthians 2:9 says: "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him," which means incomprehensible, for the simpletons who maintain delusions about 'golden roads' or 'lakes of fire.' We must not become angry with the delusional, while at the same time we must be fully cognizant that they are quite dangerous to life and limb, and enemies of Freedom on every level.





For the record, I think this is an excellent analysis of the fundamentalist Christians that preach here. I don't understand what all the fuss is about.


Edited by NiamhNyx (04/02/07 02:42 AM)


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Offlinearyah
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: Demotriton]
    #6737032 - 04/02/07 04:14 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Demotriton said:


For anyone who doesn't believe in God the way he really is as written in the bible there is no hope until he believes. So many here are so far from God I am only posting the basics.




not exactly, at least not from a catholic viewpoint. For one that, like me, explicitly rejects God theres no hope; for someone who didnt encounter christianity at all there might be. Though even orthodox christians of mainstream denominations might not see things so incredibly narrowly, and do recognise this as 'mines better than yours' advertisment war of rival religions and not being the point.

But that was not my question, I comfortable with the fires of hell, i have no objection to them. But what do they have with discussions on this forum - and why are they discussed on it? Like I quoted the point of this forum really should be about critical analysis of presented ideas, clearly you understand its not supposed to be a medium for converting posters? So why do you use it in that way?


Edited by aryah (04/02/07 04:20 AM)


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6737093 - 04/02/07 05:03 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Um...I wonder how old you are, because your level of presumption here is on a par with late adolescence, which might be mid 20s. I hope you don't think I'm being too presumptuous about your psychological development.





Overall great post, save this segment..please refrain from talking about the person.  not trying to be a prick here or anything, I just don't want this thread locked  :laugh:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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Invisiblespiritualemerg
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Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #6737271 - 04/02/07 08:45 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

NiamhNyx: For the record, I think this is an excellent analysis of the fundamentalist Christians that preach here. I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

Let's take a look, shall we...

#1: I consider myself to be Christian, but I am certainly not the two-dimensional sort of Christian who is called 'Fundamentalist' or 'Evangelical.'

In the opening statement we see the firm establishment of superiority and the introduction of a separation into two groups: Us and Them. The "Us" group is the community itself (comprised of many); the "Them" group is that which is outside of the community and has been perceived to be a threat. It is comprised of one -- Demotriton. Therefore, we also see a gross imbalance in the power between the two groups.


#2: While such a person will admit to being a sinner if asked, it is lip-service because the affect underlying the humble admission is rooted in the superiority complex or the Messianic Complex (which also feels superior).

This matter has already been addressed to a certain degree. Essentially, if someone who is not one of the group (a Them) tries to "save" people, that's perceived as bad. If someone who is part of the group (an Us) tries to save people, that's perceived as good, acceptable, even admirable.


#3: Then, to make matters even worse, Schizophrenics, Paranoid Type, post here...

What's interesting about this comment is that the poster has already established that Fundementalists/Evangelicals are an "other" -- part of the "Them" group -- but Schizophrenics are "even worse" than those who have already been branded as inferior outsiders. Given the history of the treatment of the mentally ill, I'm not surprised this degree of bias still exists to such an unconscious degree but one would like to think that a Clinical Psychologist was slightly more in tune.


#4: What blows my mind is that I get accused of using "psycho-babble" by these types of professing Christians when in fact, I am not babbling at all.

Reference Paragraph 1; Line 2. See also: Denial.


#5: And what's worse is that more people do not question the underlying psychology of people who adopt these forms of religion with which they go out to assail and assault humanity.

If ever I saw a dogmatic religion it's psychiatry and psychology which is frequently used to assail and assault humanity, i.e., by establishing superiority, separating into Us/Them thinking, engaging in conflabulation, and then denying that one has done so frequently as based on the argument that a.) those in control are better educated than those who are not and that b.) one's "intent" was pure, selfless and noble to start with. No harm was intended, therefore no harm was done.


#6: Mental illness very often takes a religious form. Nazism was a religious movement and a whole nation went mad. Muslim suicide bombers are violently insane, believing propagandized delusions about perpetual sexual intercourse with forever young celestial virgins who have translucent skin and ruby marrow in their pearlescent bones. Japanese Kamakazi suicide bombers were taught that just by reciting "Nama Amida Butsu" - In the Name of Amida Buddha - the Buddha of Infinite Light, mass killing and their own death would result in arrival in the Buddhist 'Pure Land.'

Here we see more Us/Them thinking but this time, attached to the irrationality of the "Them", i.e. the only justification provided for Muslim suicide bombers is they're not only "violently insane" but they're also so selfish that they'll kill people just so they can get laid by hot virgins for all of eternity. What's not to hate about an enemy like that?


#7: Fundamentalist Christians have their own delusions based on symbols found in Revelations. Why delusions? Because of Transcendental conditions, 1 Corinthians 2:9 says: "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him," which means incomprehensible, for the simpletons who maintain delusions about 'golden roads' or 'lakes of fire.'

The only thing this statement lacks is a pulpit.


#8: We must not become angry with the delusional, while at the same time we must be fully cognizant that they are quite dangerous to life and limb, and enemies of Freedom on every level.

In short, "be afwaid, be vewy afwaid" because the bad guys are out there and one must be ever viligant and watchful of the boogeyman! It is precisely this kind of thinking that has killed more than 3000 American soldiers, up to 600,000 Iraqi citizens, and god only knows how many Afghanis -- I don't think anyone's been keeping count.

Later in this conversation we see this poster refer to the identified target as "malicious" and "sick". Meanwhile, did anyone notice where this poster took any responsibility for their own actions or was the entire post about blaming, scapegoating, finger-pointing and avoidance of personal responsiblity?

You are welcome to give it a thumbs up. I don't.

See also:

  • The Madness of George W. Bush: Our Collective Psychosis

  • Them and Us: Cult Thinking and the Terrorist Threat


    .


  • --------------------
    ~ Kindness is cheap.  It's unkindness that always demands the highest price.

    Blogs: Spiritual Emergency | Spiritual Recovery | Voices of Recovery | A Jungian Approach to Psychosis


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    OfflineSeussA
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    Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
        #6737343 - 04/02/07 09:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

    Quote:

    MarkostheGnostic said:
    I consider myself to be Christian




    Although I have never said it, there have been many times, after reading one of your posts, that I have thought, "If Christians thought the way MarcostheGnostic does, then I would consider myself a Christian". I don't mean to sound condescending, but I don't consider you to be a Christian; or perhaps more to the point, if you are a 'true' Christian, then there are a lot of fakes (or misguided folks) out there.

    > If one doesnt wish his views challenged, isnt that post for the 'no criticism' forum?

    Yes. The primary reason we created the other forum is so that people could discuss their beliefs without worry of retribution, belittlement, or debate.


    --------------------
    Just another spore in the wind.


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    OfflineNinjetic
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    Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: Seuss]
        #6737394 - 04/02/07 10:09 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

    Why do atheists go on Christian forums and post? Why are Christian chat rooms full of people spamming "IF GOD IS REAL THEN WHERE IS HE YOU ALL SUXX LOL"?

    Many people will identify themselves with their ideas and ideals. This leads to attaching emotion to the ideas. When this happens, any opposing idea is taken as an attack on themselves, not just on the idea. I agree there is certainly a correct time and place for evangelism and debate, but it is certainly not limited to only Christians encroaching upon this area.


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    Offlinebackfromthedead
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    Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: Ninjetic]
        #6737413 - 04/02/07 10:20 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

    Got Manna??


    --------------------


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    InvisibleSinbad
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    Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: Ninjetic]
        #6737415 - 04/02/07 10:21 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

    Did anyone watch the Louis Theroux documentary last night. It relates to this thread somewhat i guess.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6507971.stm


    --------------------


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    OfflinechemiKalz
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    Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: Sinbad]
        #6737446 - 04/02/07 10:39 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

    I've never encountered these christian posters, got any links to some of their posts?


    --------------------


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    InvisibleIcelander
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    Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: spiritualemerg]
        #6737566 - 04/02/07 11:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

    Quote:

    spiritualemerg said:
    NiamhNyx: For the record, I think this is an excellent analysis of the fundamentalist Christians that preach here. I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

    Let's take a look, shall we...

    #1: I consider myself to be Christian, but I am certainly not the two-dimensional sort of Christian who is called 'Fundamentalist' or 'Evangelical.'

    In the opening statement we see the firm establishment of superiority and the introduction of a separation into two groups: Us and Them.  The "Us" group is the community itself (comprised of many); the "Them" group is that which is outside of the community and has been perceived to be a threat.  It is comprised of one -- Demotriton.  Therefore, we also see a gross imbalance in the power between the two groups. 


    #2: While such a person will admit to being a sinner if asked, it is lip-service because the affect underlying the humble admission is rooted in the superiority complex or the Messianic Complex (which also feels superior).

    This matter has already been addressed to a certain degree.  Essentially, if someone who is not one of the group (a Them) tries to "save" people, that's perceived as bad.  If someone who is part of the group (an Us) tries to save people, that's perceived as good, acceptable, even admirable.   


    #3: Then, to make matters even worse, Schizophrenics, Paranoid Type, post here...

    What's interesting about this comment is that the poster has already established that Fundementalists/Evangelicals are an "other" -- part of the "Them" group -- but Schizophrenics are "even worse" than those who have already been branded as inferior outsiders.  Given the history of the treatment of the mentally ill, I'm not surprised this degree of bias still exists to such an unconscious degree but one would like to think that a Clinical Psychologist was slightly more in tune.


    #4: What blows my mind is that I get accused of using "psycho-babble" by these types of professing Christians when in fact, I am not babbling at all.

    Reference Paragraph 1; Line 2.  See also: Denial.


    #5: And what's worse is that more people do not question the underlying psychology of people who adopt these forms of religion with which they go out to assail and assault humanity.

    If ever I saw a dogmatic religion it's psychiatry and psychology which is frequently used to assail and assault humanity, i.e., by establishing superiority, separating into Us/Them thinking, engaging in conflabulation, and then denying that one has done so frequently as based on the argument that a.) those in control are better educated than those who are not and that b.) one's "intent" was pure, selfless and noble to start with.  No harm was intended, therefore no harm was done. 


    #6: Mental illness very often takes a religious form. Nazism was a religious movement and a whole nation went mad. Muslim suicide bombers are violently insane, believing propagandized delusions about perpetual sexual intercourse with forever young celestial virgins who have translucent skin and ruby marrow in their pearlescent bones. Japanese Kamakazi suicide bombers were taught that just by reciting "Nama Amida Butsu" - In the Name of Amida Buddha - the Buddha of Infinite Light, mass killing and their own death would result in arrival in the Buddhist 'Pure Land.'

    Here we see more Us/Them thinking but this time, attached to the irrationality of the "Them", i.e. the only justification provided for Muslim suicide bombers is they're not only "violently insane" but they're also so selfish that they'll kill people just so they can get laid by hot virgins for all of eternity.  What's not to hate about an enemy like that?         


    #7: Fundamentalist Christians have their own delusions based on symbols found in Revelations. Why delusions? Because of Transcendental conditions, 1 Corinthians 2:9 says: "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him," which means incomprehensible, for the simpletons who maintain delusions about 'golden roads' or 'lakes of fire.'

    The only thing this statement lacks is a pulpit.


    #8: We must not become angry with the delusional, while at the same time we must be fully cognizant that they are quite dangerous to life and limb, and enemies of Freedom on every level.

    In short, "be afwaid, be vewy afwaid" because the bad guys are out there and one must be ever viligant and watchful of the boogeyman!  It is precisely this kind of thinking that has killed more than 3000 American soldiers, up to 600,000 Iraqi citizens, and god only knows how many Afghanis -- I don't think anyone's been keeping count.

    Later in this conversation we see this poster refer to the identified target as "malicious" and "sick".  Meanwhile, did anyone notice where this poster took any responsibility for their own actions or was the entire post about blaming, scapegoating, finger-pointing and avoidance of personal responsiblity? 

    You are welcome to give it a thumbs up.  I don't.

    See also:

  • The Madness of George W. Bush: Our Collective Psychosis

  • Them and Us: Cult Thinking and the Terrorist Threat


    .




  • You make some very strong points here IMO. I would like to hear a reply from Markos.

    Good post.:thumbup:


    --------------------
    "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

    " All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

    With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
    The more knowledge, the more grief.
    Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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    Offlinearyah
    Stranger

    Registered: 03/11/07
    Posts: 102
    Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
    Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: Icelander]
        #6737868 - 04/02/07 01:24 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

    Quote:


    Given the history of the treatment of the mentally ill, I'm not surprised this degree of bias still exists to such an unconscious degree but one would like to think that a Clinical Psychologist was slightly more in tune.




    given the history of the treatment of the mentally ill wouldnt you expect exactly the opposite?

    Quote:


    In the opening statement we see the firm establishment of superiority and the introduction of a separation into two groups: Us and Them. The "Us" group is the community itself (comprised of many); the "Them" group is that which is outside of the community and has been perceived to be a threat. It is comprised of one -- Demotriton. Therefore, we also see a gross imbalance in the power between the two groups.





    I think two. Or perhaps one but not the named.

    I dont think this would be disputed, but that does not imply that a 'Them' is not actually (and possibly intentionally) disruptive for the intended purpose of the forum. For if it were, wouldnt the exact same dynamic you describe also develop?

    Im hoping for direct answers from Demotriton to my last questions to understand if this is the case here.

    Quote:


    Essentially, if someone who is not one of the group (a Them) tries to "save" people, that's perceived as bad. If someone who is part of the group (an Us) tries to save people, that's perceived as good, acceptable, even admirable.




    I wish you would argue this very specifically, with exact references where you see a symmetry and why. I dont buy it simply stated as a general fact, and supported only by an emotional appeal for sympathy to a minority. Also where was it adressed to a degree?


    Edited by aryah (04/02/07 01:37 PM)


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    InvisibleSinbad
    Living TheMoment
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    Registered: 12/23/04
    Posts: 2,571
    Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
    Re: Why are Christians on the Shroomery? [Re: spiritualemerg]
        #6737940 - 04/02/07 01:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

    Quote:

    spiritualemerg said:
    NiamhNyx: For the record, I think this is an excellent analysis of the fundamentalist Christians that preach here. I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

    Let's take a look, shall we...

    #1: I consider myself to be Christian, but I am certainly not the two-dimensional sort of Christian who is called 'Fundamentalist' or 'Evangelical.'

    In the opening statement we see the firm establishment of superiority and the introduction of a separation into two groups: Us and Them. The "Us" group is the community itself (comprised of many); the "Them" group is that which is outside of the community and has been perceived to be a threat. It is comprised of one -- Demotriton. Therefore, we also see a gross imbalance in the power between the two groups.


    #2: While such a person will admit to being a sinner if asked, it is lip-service because the affect underlying the humble admission is rooted in the superiority complex or the Messianic Complex (which also feels superior).

    This matter has already been addressed to a certain degree. Essentially, if someone who is not one of the group (a Them) tries to "save" people, that's perceived as bad. If someone who is part of the group (an Us) tries to save people, that's perceived as good, acceptable, even admirable.


    #3: Then, to make matters even worse, Schizophrenics, Paranoid Type, post here...

    What's interesting about this comment is that the poster has already established that Fundementalists/Evangelicals are an "other" -- part of the "Them" group -- but Schizophrenics are "even worse" than those who have already been branded as inferior outsiders. Given the history of the treatment of the mentally ill, I'm not surprised this degree of bias still exists to such an unconscious degree but one would like to think that a Clinical Psychologist was slightly more in tune.


    #4: What blows my mind is that I get accused of using "psycho-babble" by these types of professing Christians when in fact, I am not babbling at all.

    Reference Paragraph 1; Line 2. See also: Denial.


    #5: And what's worse is that more people do not question the underlying psychology of people who adopt these forms of religion with which they go out to assail and assault humanity.

    If ever I saw a dogmatic religion it's psychiatry and psychology which is frequently used to assail and assault humanity, i.e., by establishing superiority, separating into Us/Them thinking, engaging in conflabulation, and then denying that one has done so frequently as based on the argument that a.) those in control are better educated than those who are not and that b.) one's "intent" was pure, selfless and noble to start with. No harm was intended, therefore no harm was done.


    #6: Mental illness very often takes a religious form. Nazism was a religious movement and a whole nation went mad. Muslim suicide bombers are violently insane, believing propagandized delusions about perpetual sexual intercourse with forever young celestial virgins who have translucent skin and ruby marrow in their pearlescent bones. Japanese Kamakazi suicide bombers were taught that just by reciting "Nama Amida Butsu" - In the Name of Amida Buddha - the Buddha of Infinite Light, mass killing and their own death would result in arrival in the Buddhist 'Pure Land.'

    Here we see more Us/Them thinking but this time, attached to the irrationality of the "Them", i.e. the only justification provided for Muslim suicide bombers is they're not only "violently insane" but they're also so selfish that they'll kill people just so they can get laid by hot virgins for all of eternity. What's not to hate about an enemy like that?


    #7: Fundamentalist Christians have their own delusions based on symbols found in Revelations. Why delusions? Because of Transcendental conditions, 1 Corinthians 2:9 says: "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him," which means incomprehensible, for the simpletons who maintain delusions about 'golden roads' or 'lakes of fire.'

    The only thing this statement lacks is a pulpit.


    #8: We must not become angry with the delusional, while at the same time we must be fully cognizant that they are quite dangerous to life and limb, and enemies of Freedom on every level.

    In short, "be afwaid, be vewy afwaid" because the bad guys are out there and one must be ever viligant and watchful of the boogeyman! It is precisely this kind of thinking that has killed more than 3000 American soldiers, up to 600,000 Iraqi citizens, and god only knows how many Afghanis -- I don't think anyone's been keeping count.

    Later in this conversation we see this poster refer to the identified target as "malicious" and "sick". Meanwhile, did anyone notice where this poster took any responsibility for their own actions or was the entire post about blaming, scapegoating, finger-pointing and avoidance of personal responsiblity?

    You are welcome to give it a thumbs up. I don't.

    See also:

  • The Madness of George W. Bush: Our Collective Psychosis

  • Them and Us: Cult Thinking and the Terrorist Threat


    .




  • Awesome post!


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