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Offlineunseenat17
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Grow Probs
    #6722739 - 03/28/07 11:33 PM (17 years, 4 days ago)

Alright everybody. I have had nothing but problems since i started growing this new strain. I started a pack of "Church" hybrid cannabis femenized seeds in some jiffy pellets. 9/10 sprouted, and did fine for about a week and a half. I then started feeding them a grow solution and everything turned bad. It turned out the superthrive and earth juice I was adding(read the fert schedule) turned the ph way down, and at the time didnt think about it sadly, and had no money to buy a ph meter. After a couple days, i figured my plants died, but finally decided to grab a ph meter just to see what i was feeding them, and it turned out to be around a ph of 3...no wonder they were doing horribly. After ph adjusting everything, they thrived for about a week and a half, but the foilage that suffered through the ph problems never came back, and eventually fell off most of the plants. I transplanted them to jiffy pots, and now i am starting to see some more browning and am confused. It looks like a deficiency of some sort...but I am not good at ID'ing that stuff. I looked online and on maximum yields issues, but they pretty much lead to the conclusion that you basically need to send a piece of foilage off to a lab to really know what the problem is...can anyone help me? Here is the details plus some pics. These plants are now about 3-4 weeks old.

Medium
Seedlings started in a jiffy pellet, and transplanted to a jiffy pot.

3 of them reside in a mix consisting of 80% jiffy mix, 5% verm, 15% miracle grow moisture control potting soil with blood meal, bone meal, and green sand mixed in making the medium a 15-15-5 aprox.

3 of them reside in miracle grow moisture control potting soil

Fert schedule

Note: Everything starts with R/O water obtained from a culligan machine at wal-mart.
Note: Every solution mixed up is ph balanced as close to 6 as possible (the hannah ph meter i have is kind of shitty)

*Foilar spray fulvic acid once a week (1/2 tsp/gal of dish
detergent added as a wetting agent)
*Foilar spray with a gentle supply of organic secondary nutes once
a week (1/2 tsp/gal of dish detergent added as a wetting agent)
*Water with a seaweed solution once a week with a drop
of superthrive/gal and h202 added
*Water once every other week with earth juice grow formula
(mild strength), gentle supply of organic secondary nutes,
drop of superthrive/gal, and h202
*Drench media with a solution of beneficial mycorrhizae every
other week

*basic water for in-between feedings consist of superthrive,
fulvic acid, and h202

Environment
Temp: 76-82 degrees (At one point i noticed 92 for some odd
reason, and could have been like that for maybe 1-3 hrs)
Humidity: 60
Constant light breeze is blown on them 24/7
Lighting: 400W MH light aprox 16 inches away from plants on 16-24
hrs a day.







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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: unseenat17]
    #6722952 - 03/29/07 12:41 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

Those look really stunted for being a month old, they don't even have neatodes (sp?) coming off the main stalk!

I'n my opinion a week and a half old is a little young or atleast borderline for fertilizer, which I think burned your plants. I also honestly don't think the foliar feeding is very necissary or doing much but maybe adding to the overdose of nutes?

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Offlineunseenat17
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: AKSE]
    #6723026 - 03/29/07 01:19 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

i started ferting them when they got their second set of true leaves with a pretty mild strength solution of organic materials (kelp, feather meal, oat bran, bone meal, etc). Which is what was recomended.

" When the first couple of leaves develop, you're ready to move your plant to the green-growth condition, which involves switching to a mild (700-900 ppm) green growth fert mix" --Maximum Yield Jan-Feb 2007

I think it was the ph prob that stunted the growth...and by the way, they do have what your talkin about
Quote:

neatodes (sp?)


...
is that them? All but two plants have new green growth spurting out the main stem kinda like in that pic.


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InvisibleMagash
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: unseenat17]
    #6723049 - 03/29/07 01:35 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

Ok, Ive grown with earth juice before and I didn't adjust the same way you did and the ph prob didn't show up in the plants this drastically in this short a period of time. Save yourself some time and go with pure blend pro it's easier to use if your new at growing.

Your soil mix doesn't need any verm for one but it does sound like it does need perlite. You started feeding to early. Stop all the folar spraying, all of it your not helping one bit. Why only 16 hrs of light ? Way to early for a deficiency to be showing up.



--------------------
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Offlineunseenat17
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: Magash]
    #6723069 - 03/29/07 01:45 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

ok...no more foilar...but if its too early for a difficiency...then what is it? 16 hours because its a good break in our energy bill, and plants do have a maximum light saturation. I believe cannabis is like tomatoes, you only need to go 16 hrs max, where corn can go 24 hrs, and still want more.


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Edited by unseenat17 (03/29/07 01:50 AM)

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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: unseenat17]
    #6723886 - 03/29/07 09:51 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

by not adjusting your water to a ph of 6 to begin with you cause nutrient lockout.
which in turn causes deficiencies
also don't go overboard on the superthrive, it only takes drops at a time
and....
mix your ferts at half strength
use a digital ppm meter

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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: unseenat17]
    #6724194 - 03/29/07 11:30 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

unseenat17 said:
ok...no more foilar...but if its too early for a difficiency...then what is it? 16 hours because its a good break in our energy bill, and plants do have a maximum light saturation. I believe cannabis is like tomatoes, you only need to go 16 hrs max, where corn can go 24 hrs, and still want more.




We grew ours this time w/out any vegging fertilizers (soil), and ours are 1.5ft high with branches about 6" long just so you get an idea of how far along they should be. That new green growth should have been branches with leaves and possible secondary growth. MJ grows very very well even w/out fertilizer. Look at it more as fertilizer is not a nescessity, but it deffinitly improves it. We only fertilize once in the vegging stage, and then every two weeks in the flowering. We never foliar feed our plants, and it doesn't seem like it would really contribute much. If you have the money, buy some compact or regular flouros, they use less electricity and work just as good, if not better than HPS for vegging in my opinion. Get a couple hundred watts worth of fluoros and leave them on for 24hrs. Veg on 24/0 and bud on 12/12, can't go wrong.

Edited by AKSE (03/29/07 11:34 AM)

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Offlinecoda
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: unseenat17]
    #6724318 - 03/29/07 12:09 PM (17 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

ok...no more foilar...but if its too early for a difficiency...then what is it? 16 hours because its a good break in our energy bill, and plants do have a maximum light saturation. I believe cannabis is like tomatoes, you only need to go 16 hrs max, where corn can go 24 hrs, and still want more.





not really true, cannabis plants under 24/0 can grow 15-30% more then those under an 18/6 cycle. Unless you're using a couple thousand of watts to veg it's not going to impact your electric bill much either.


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

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Offlineunseenat17
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: cpw1971]
    #6724477 - 03/29/07 01:01 PM (17 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

cpw1971 said:
by not adjusting your water to a ph of 6 to begin with you cause nutrient lockout.
which in turn causes deficiencies
also don't go overboard on the superthrive, it only takes drops at a time
and....
mix your ferts at half strength
use a digital ppm meter



It doesnt make sense to adjust ph to begin with instead of to end with. Why make my R/O water a ph of 6, only to add superthrive (i only add 1 drop per gallon if you read my post) and earth juice, and have it end up at 3 again...ill just do what i have been doing, and ph adjust once i mix my solution up...no thx


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: unseenat17]
    #6725676 - 03/29/07 06:17 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

because if the water is adjusted first when you add your ferts they dont salt out on you.
  start with the right ph to begin with before adding ferts so you dont change the structure of them  :thumbup:
  not to mention its easier that way
  at least with my test kit where you add drops of indicator solution

Edited by cpw1971 (03/29/07 06:20 PM)

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InvisibleMagash
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: unseenat17]
    #6726831 - 03/30/07 12:02 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Adjust the ph after making your solution just be sure to add it to the water and not put it in the container before adding water. ((I know nobody is that fucking stupid but it has to be said). If your water ph is so bad that you have to adjust it first you may wanna move.

Indica strains have a top out at 18 hrs (that's where the 18 hr thing started) and sativas can use the full 24. They have a lot of things in common with tomatoes but light needs isn't one of them.


--------------------
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:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

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Offlineunseenat17
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: Magash]
    #6726835 - 03/30/07 12:05 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

yeah, i use R/O water from wallymart, i dont believe i would need to adjust it first...so anyway...its not the light only being on for 16 hrs that is killing my plants...anyone else have any news on what the browning is actually from?


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InvisibleMagash
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: unseenat17]
    #6726866 - 03/30/07 12:27 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

From the looks of it most likely it was from the folar treatments or spraying under bright lights. From the look of the leaf tips they look burned fron nutes to early rather then lacking something.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:

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Offlineunseenat17
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: Magash]
    #6727037 - 03/30/07 02:40 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

They did not recieve sunscald. Before foilar feeding, i would turn the MH off, and turn on two t5 flouros...and before spraying, i would make sure the temp was below 75 to make sure the stomata were nice and open. I have only been giving them water since i have transplanted to jiffy pots. They look fine now, but whatever is affecting them is only affecting older foilage. The new stuff comming in looks great at the moment. We will just have to see.


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: unseenat17]
    #6734667 - 04/01/07 12:02 PM (17 years, 1 day ago)

I have had similar problems but foolishly I did not start my plants in their large pots buy sprinkling powdered guano on the surface as I had intended so I reckon deficiency not overfeeding. How much does Earth Juice change the Ph? I adjust mine before using with Org. Apple Cider Vinegar. I haven't really gone to juice yet as they have only just finished vegging. How do you check Ph with an indicator kit once you have a bottle of brown liquid? Does it still work and should I be adjusting my stuff to a higher Ph prior to adding juice or adjusting the liquid after I have done so?


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Offlineunseenat17
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: Silverwolf]
    #6735705 - 04/01/07 06:14 PM (17 years, 22 hours ago)

You would probably need test strips instead of the liquid drops (cabbage juice right?) unless you wanted to go digital...which is around 60 dollars for a new cheap unit. I believe its well worth it though. Once i mix up all the stuff (fulvic acid, superthrive, earthjuice(grow), it turns out to be around 3 or so...but dont forget the ph of one batch can greatly differ from another.


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: unseenat17]
    #6736794 - 04/01/07 11:55 PM (17 years, 16 hours ago)

You know, Ph isn't as big of a deal as a lot of poeple make it out to be, it's more just a problem when growing hydroponically. If you use tapwater and let it sit at room temperature for 12-24 hours, it should be suitable for the plants, hell we use water straight from the tap sometimes, ofcourse our tap water in Alaska is equal to your bottled water in the lower 48.

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InvisibleHanky
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: AKSE]
    #6736845 - 04/02/07 12:11 AM (17 years, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

AKSE said:
You know, Ph isn't as big of a deal as a lot of poeple make it out to be, it's more just a problem when growing hydroponically.




Rubbish, Nutrient lock out will occur if the PH is too far out of range regardless of weather the plants are in soil or hydro.


--------------------
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[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
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Offlineunseenat17
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: AKSE]
    #6736936 - 04/02/07 01:16 AM (17 years, 15 hours ago)

ph is a very big deal if the solution your feeding them everyday (if you grow soiless) is a ph of 3. It isnt the water in question...most water is from 6.5 - 7.5 no prob...but ferts and supps do vary the ph quite a bit in my experience (which isnt all that much in all honesty)


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: Hanky]
    #6737899 - 04/02/07 11:34 AM (17 years, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

Hanky said:
Quote:

AKSE said:
You know, Ph isn't as big of a deal as a lot of poeple make it out to be, it's more just a problem when growing hydroponically.




Rubbish, Nutrient lock out will occur if the PH is too far out of range regardless of weather the plants are in soil or hydro.




Yes I agree, but in my opinion it just applies to hydro more, as people who grow hydroponically tend to fertilize/feed more often than soil; which would have a less chance of lowered pH.

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InvisibleMagash
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: AKSE]
    #6738679 - 04/02/07 03:24 PM (17 years, 1 hour ago)

It's a combo of both guys. Now the plants will notice the problem faster in a hydro set up cause they are in nothing but the nutrient solution but with hydro the problem can be fixed faster almost instantly. With soil the ph problem takes longer to show itself but with soil it's more of a pain to correct the problem. :bouncysmoke:


--------------------
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: AKSE]
    #6741209 - 04/03/07 06:21 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AKSE said:
You know, Ph isn't as big of a deal as a lot of poeple make it out to be, it's more just a problem when growing hydroponically. If you use tapwater and let it sit at room temperature for 12-24 hours, it should be suitable for the plants, hell we use water straight from the tap sometimes, ofcourse our tap water in Alaska is equal to your bottled water in the lower 48.




Yeah and I'd like to submit your tap water to electron-microscopy when frozen!

P.H (sorry P.S) When using powdered feed (don't smirk) should you adjust according to the ph values of the feed (which isn't given of-course -I was talking about this re. composts months ago-)? Also I was advised to take the ph down to 5.5 in soil however I read...
"Solution - First, check the pH, and adjust if necessary. The correct pH for marijuana is 6.3 - 6.8 in soil and 5.5 - 6.1 in a hydroponic system. Second, make sure you are giving the correct amount/type of fertilizer/nutrients. For the vegetative stage of growth marijuana needs a fertilizer/nutrient with a high Nitrogen (N) content like 2-1-1 (or 20-10-10)." From "Nursery Troubleshooting Guide" www.gardenscure.com

Aha! "Carding Mill" from Somerfield 6.7 as it comes (A little high for a little low n'set pas?) "Ow is eee guv.....??!!"

P.P.H 6.7 is low for British Spring.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Silverwolf (04/03/07 06:30 AM)

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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: Silverwolf]
    #6741759 - 04/03/07 11:06 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silverwolf said:
Quote:

AKSE said:
You know, Ph isn't as big of a deal as a lot of poeple make it out to be, it's more just a problem when growing hydroponically. If you use tapwater and let it sit at room temperature for 12-24 hours, it should be suitable for the plants, hell we use water straight from the tap sometimes, ofcourse our tap water in Alaska is equal to your bottled water in the lower 48.




Yeah and I'd like to submit your tap water to electron-microscopy when frozen!





Hehe. Well our water is bottled straight from the lake it comes from (Tap water is from same source) and sold worldwide, so it must be of quality.

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: AKSE]
    #6742120 - 04/03/07 12:42 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Check out the pictures on www.masaru-emoto.net and www.hado.net.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: Silverwolf]
    #6742149 - 04/03/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Wow that is neat, never even knew such a thing could be observed/photographed.

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: AKSE]
    #6742421 - 04/03/07 01:56 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Good huh ?! He headlines with water from places like yours (you should see the stuff that comes out of the taps in London though!).


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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InvisibleMagash
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: Silverwolf]
    #6746879 - 04/04/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

For those who can use it


--------------------
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: coda]
    #6747768 - 04/04/07 07:05 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:

not really true, cannabis plants under 24/0 can grow 15-30% more then those under an 18/6 cycle. Unless you're using a couple thousand of watts to veg it's not going to impact your electric bill much either.





I dunno whats rite or wrong when it comes to this but emulating nature always seems like a good idea and I do not think any were but the Arctic's have a 24 7 light schedule.

Nature knows it has to. I find it hard to believe that we can know better than it does.


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And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: Grow Probs [Re: Magash]
    #6747775 - 04/04/07 07:07 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Magash said:
For those who can use it




I normally shoot for 5.6 but now that I actually know what that chart means do I want it to be 5.5 sometimes and 5.9 others?


--------------------
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InvisibleMagash
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Re: Grow Probs [Re: budmanman]
    #6747850 - 04/04/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Nah, it means it can be anywhere in that range all the time :gethigh:


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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


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