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OfflineRonoS
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More stuff for G.C. to ponder...
    #671629 - 06/10/02 12:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Here you go G.C....even more of my "bullshit propaganda" with more "Leftist" and "Biased" references for you...

Airforce Response

At 8:20 am, Flight 11 from Boston ceases its transponder signal, radio contact lost, plane goes dramatically off-course. According to NORAD, it takes Air Traffic Control EIGHTEEN MINUTES to inform them about Flight 11, (8:38) in contrast to routine procedure. (CNN) Compare this to the "Payne Stewart" incident of 1999, where the Airforce was called in after about five minutes - an Airforce jet vectored into position within eighteen. (National Transportation Safety Report)
See CNN, Village Voice, USA Today, www.flightexplorer.com (radar reports.) Each of these instances, taken separately, constitutes an emergency according to FAA Order 7110.65M 10-2-5. According to Bob Arnott of MSNBC, "Pilots are supposed to hit each fix with pinpoint accuracy. If a plane deviates by 15 degrees, or two miles from that course, the flight controllers will hit the panic button.... It‚s considered a real emergency, like a police car screeching down a highway at 100 miles an hour." Routine response to such emergencies is to order "fighter-intercepts" into the air, to regain contact with the pilot, (NORAD spokesman, Boston Globe, 9/15/2000).


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NORAD notifies OTIS AFB, (about two hundred miles east of Flight 11's position) just after being told of a second hijacked plane in the same area, (Flight 175) heading west, (away from Otis). Top military spokesmen say cutbacks caused a reduction in the number of bases "on alert," (from 100 to 7) meaning that intercepts had to come from greater distance.(General Richard Myers, Senate confirmation hearing, Newsday, 9/23, St. Augustine Journal) Seven bases on the coastal borders for the entire United States! Again, this is not what occurred during the Payne Stewart crises, where four different bases where called in as the plane flew across the continent.('ABC News,' 25 October 1999) Numerous airforce bases in the eastern U.S. are listed on the internet as maintaining battle-ready fighter squadrons. Syracuse, Philadelphia, Atlantic City, amongst others.(http://www.communitycurrency.org/Part1B.html) According to the American Federation of Scientists, the top speed of the F-15's from Otis is 1800+ miles. Although military spokesmen describe the planes from Otis as flying "like a scalded ape," they actually fly at less than half their top speed.(St. Augustine Journal, 9/16/2001, AP, 9/19/2001) The planes arrive in New York City at approximately 9:20 -after two planes had crashed into the World Trade Centers- a FULL HOUR AFTER THE ORIGINAL LOST CONTACT WITH FLIGHT 11. (Compare that to Payne Stewart incident).


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Flight 77 goes well off-course, (temporarily) at approximately 8:40 am.(USA Today) Approximately 9:00am, transponder signal and radio contact is lost.(8) The plane reverses course, and heads directly back toward Washington, at the same time that a second plane has struck the World Trade Center. At 9:06, the FAA informs all air traffic control centers that Flight 77 has been hijacked; yet NORAD claims it is not until 9:24 that the FAA informs them of the hijacking; TWENTY FIVE MINUTES AFTER CONTACT WITH THE PLANE HAD BEEN LOST -and all this, a further fifteen minutes after a known hijacked airliner had crashed into the WTC. (Newsday, 9/23/2001, CNN, 9/16/2001) NORAD later claims that fighters were dispatched from Langley AFB, 130 miles away; when, in fact, four separate newspaper reports show fighters scrambling from Andrews AFB, (ten miles outside Washington) - yet only AFTER the attack on the Pentagon. (San Diego Union-Tribune, 9/12/2001; NBC Nightly News, (6:30 PM ET) 9/11/2001; Denver Post, 9/11/2001; Sunday Telegraph, (London), 9/14/2001. The reports about Andrews were soon quashed -the military website quickly changed to show that no fighters were stationed there; and the reports about Langley did not surface until Sept. 14, contradicting both, General Myers on the 13th, and Dick Cheney on the 16th (Meet the Press, interview, 9/16/2001.)


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Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and top Pentagon officials claim they were "unaware" that flight 77 was heading towards Washington (Newsday, 9/23/2001); when, in fact, BY LAW, the FAA is obligated to inform the National Military Commnd Center in the Pentagon, as soon as a hijacking is confirmed, that is, at 8:28 (FAA Order 7610.4J 7-1-2; CJCSI 3610.01A, 6/1/2001; CNN, 10/26/1999; http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/911page.htm). This is confirmed by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Richard Myers, who admits before the Senate that the Pentagon's "crisis-action team" was "up" by 8:50 (Senate Confirmation hearings, 9/13/2001); yet the General fails to inform us that HE was NOT EVEN NOTIFIED by the "team" that a crisis was underway for another 50 MINUTES! - until AFTER the attack on the Pentagon.(American Forces Press Service, 10/23/2001) Standing before the Senate Confirmation hearings on Sept. 13th, speaking on the bombings, General Myers says "I don't know" ten times.


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We are further told that the Pentagon was "unaware" that Flight 93 had been hijacked,(Newsday, 9/23/2001) and that there were NO FIGHTERS in the vicinity when the plane went down; when, in fact, the FAA had informed NORAD that Flight 93 had been hijacked at 9:16, FIFTY MINUTES BEFORE. (CNN, 9/16/2001)


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George W. Bush is made aware of the crisis before he leaves his hotel in Sarasota, Florida, just before 9am.(16) According to Vice-President Dick Cheney, "the secret service... FAA... had open lines after the World trade Center was [hit]." (Meet the Press, 9/16/2001) Cheney says he was whisked into the basement of the White House for his own protection; yet George W. Bush was clearly in a more-vulnerable position: out in the open, a very public arena, schedule well-publicized; and he continues to his appointment in a third-grade classroom. When he is updated not once, not twice, but thrice about the crisis, he continues sitting in the classroom for a full thirty minutes.('AP' 9/12/2001, Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/12/2001 Pg. A 20; CNN "Breaking News" 9:25, 9/11/2001) Only later do we hear that George. W Bush is the only one who can order any shootdowns.


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After making a brief statement at 9:30, the President takes off from the local military base aboard Airforce One with NO FIGHTER PROTECTION (according to report from www.mycountryrightorwrong.) Then the plane is diverted away from Washington for NINE HOURS, limping home with an extraordinary fighter protection, under the guise of some supposed "threat" to Airforce One,(William Saffire, New York Times, 9/12/2001, 13; CNN, "Breaking News.") which is quietly accepted as a cover-story, two weeks later, by a compliant press (Washington Post, 9/27/2001, p. 12).


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Top military officials repeatedly lied about the extent to which they were aware of the crises. George W. Bush and his entourage acted as if they were in no danger -and under no urgency to act. The apparent incompetence of the administration, military, the FBI, has been matched by an exceptionally thrifty and well-coordinated FBI investigation/conviction of the supposed hijackers, the invasion of Afghanistan, the "Patriot Act," and so on.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The media neglected to raise the most-elementary questions about government/military behavior in the worst case of security breakdown in U.S. history - costing over 3,000 lives.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: More stuff for G.C. to ponder... [Re: Rono]
    #671690 - 06/10/02 01:14 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"Here you go G.C....even more of my "bullshit propaganda" with more "Leftist" and "Biased" references for you..."

Thanks I really needed my brain numbed some more from blind stupidity.
You posted all this why? To prove mistakes were made? People make mistakes in crisis sometimes. It's a fact of life. No terrorist event like this has ever happened United States history. It's easy to see how things might have got confused and strewed around in the chain of command. That doesn't mean there was a conspiracy to let it happen.
Many of your posts are you posting what others have said...letting them effectively argue for you while attempting to have me argue agains't already established liberal wacks. Notice I have not done this myself. I do not have to post extremist conservative articles and authors to support my arguments. I deal in facts and make my own opinions. I do not rely on the opinions of others and take them as factual views.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: More stuff for G.C. to ponder... [Re: Rono]
    #671699 - 06/10/02 01:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

the tin-foil hats will be flowing..prepare to engage the evil empire


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: More stuff for G.C. to ponder... [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #671700 - 06/10/02 01:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The only thing I have noticed is that time after time you only manage to tell people how stupid their "leftist" opinion is because it doesn't coincide with your squeaky clean view of your government, without forming any sort of intelligent rebuttle. Everything that was stated above is not disputable...even by you. And yet you feel that a fuck-up of this magnitude is ALL just coincidence?...If you believe that, then you are the one that is delusional.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: More stuff for G.C. to ponder... [Re: Rono]
    #671769 - 06/10/02 01:58 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"The only thing I have noticed is that time after time you only manage to tell people how stupid their "leftist" opinion is because it doesn't coincide with your squeaky clean view of your government, without forming any sort of intelligent rebuttle. "

Well I'm sorry, but your crazy theory about 9/11 being a conspiracy IS stupid...idiotic...moronic...politically motivated...etc. For some reason(most probably political) you cannot fathom that this could not have happened without some sort of wild ass conspiracy. Shit happens sometimes..life is not one big conspiracy. The difference between you and me...I look at things as a whole. I take ALL info in and draw my own conclusions. I am my own person. I do not rely on others to support me. You on the other hand look at what you want to see. You twist things to suit your views. You pick and choose what facts support your conclusions in the context you use them. If it doesn't support your conclusion it's not important...or doesn't outweigh your other picked out facts to you. You rely on the opinions of others and hand picked factual information to back you up.

"Everything that was stated above is not disputable...even by you. And yet you feel that a fuck-up of this magnitude is ALL just coincidence?...If you believe that, then you are the one that is delusional."

Yeah I do think it was human error in crisis that caused a few delays in action. Nothing like this had ever happened in the United States before. We'd never had to shoot down civilian planes before that were hijacked by terrorists. Delays in action for a first time unexpected event like this are totally possible on a large scale. This event has honed us down to an edge though..and if it were to happen again I'm sure action would be taken at a far accelerated rate than before. Our homeland islamic terrorism cherry has been popped so to speak.
With your wacko conspiracy OPINIONS I'm just glad people that think and process information like you are a minority.
Have you tried CP? It might mellow you out a bit. Give it a try.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: More stuff for G.C. to ponder... [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #671796 - 06/10/02 02:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Politically motivated???...Please tell me you are kidding...I have no politcal agenda whatsoever, other than trying to help expose the truth of what happened on 9/11...if you consider that as Leftist then so be it.

I have a hard time believing that even you could be so dense as not accept the fact that things don't even appear a little suspicious. It's not like it's one or two discrepancies...there are government witnesses coming out of the woodwork saying they were blocked at every turn. There are the warnings given by other countires...And yes, I do rely on other people to help my validate my point...perhaps you should too since the information you are getting is clearly not complete.

As for "Nothing like this had ever happened in the United States before"...perhaps you have heard of Pearl Harbour??? And how just NOW, it's become evident that the U.S. broke the Japanese code and knew EXACTLY when the Japanese were going to attack?.....I've given you Precedent, Motive, and ample evidence to, at the very minimum, question your governments motives...

I state again...I HAVE NO POLITICAL MOTIVATIONS, Just a craving for the truth...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: More stuff for G.C. to ponder... [Re: Rono]
    #672805 - 06/11/02 09:00 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"Politically motivated???...Please tell me you are kidding...I have no politcal agenda whatsoever, other than trying to help expose the truth of what happened on 9/11...if you consider that as Leftist then so be it."

I have a feeling even if 9/11 hadn't happened you'd still be coming up with conspiracies about America and it's leaders. I believe you have a illogical hatred of the United States...for some reason..what reason could it be other than political? Personal? When did the evil United States piss in your Corn Flakes? Your Canadian...practically an American already(perhaps this is what you REALLY resent) culturewise. Your wish to "expose the truth" is more like a wish to get some dirt on something you don't like...even if it means picking and pecking events out of context to support you.

"have a hard time believing that even you could be so dense as not accept the fact that things don't even appear a little suspicious. It's not like it's one or two discrepancies...there are government witnesses coming out of the woodwork saying they were blocked at every turn. There are the warnings given by other countires..."

Trust me I have an equally hard time believing anyone could be as weak minded and deluded as you.
Human beings are not machines they make mistakes. You are proof of that..lol. Yes ....if I picked out what I wanted around the events of 9/11 and if I believed the United States was a big bad meany and if I was a conspiracy nut I then might come to your conclusions. Luckily I'm not a wacky "the truth is out there" person though. The truth is out there aye...the real truth not a manufactured one like yours. You have not pointed me to any kind of real evidence to support your wild claims. What you have posted would not hold up in any court on this entire planet as a case...or even to start a case.

"I do rely on other people to help my validate my point...perhaps you should too since the information you are getting is clearly not complete."

You have it completly backwards here. Your the one using limited information to support your wild conspiracy theorys.

"As for "Nothing like this had ever happened in the United States before"...perhaps you have heard of Pearl Harbour??? And how just NOW, it's become evident that the U.S. broke the Japanese code and knew EXACTLY when the Japanese were going to attack?"

Yes I recall Pearl Harbor. Pearl Habor was hardly an attack on the United States mainland by Islamic terrorists using our own civilian planes as the device of destruction though. There was a World War going on at the time. The United States needed an excuse to get into it to save the world's collective arse. Whether a few knew about the attack before it happened doesn't matter. There IS a such thing as human error. Anyway.. things turned out for the best in the end.

"I've given you Precedent, Motive, and ample evidence to, at the very minimum, question your governments motives..."

No you haven't. You've given me your wild conpiracy theory. You've given me a few handpicked facts I was already aware of to try and support your cravy theory. As I said before your argument wouldn't hold up on a single court on this entire planet.

"I state again...I HAVE NO POLITICAL MOTIVATIONS, Just a craving for the truth..."

And a craving to get some dirt on the country you apparently hate. Why don't you pick on your own country. You don't even live here you smuck.

Come on ...try some CP..you might like it..might help you calm down a bit. It would be the drug for you.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: More stuff for G.C. to ponder... [Re: Great_Cthulhu]
    #672863 - 06/11/02 09:42 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"I have a feeling even if 9/11 hadn't happened you'd still be coming up with conspiracies about America and it's leaders"

You're right, I would...even you have admitted that your government keeps info from the people...I.e. Pearl Harbour, that resulted in the needless loss of American lives....and yet you can't accept the possibilty that it would do it again to save it's econonimical ass?...That's pretty hypocritical of you.

"What you have posted would not hold up in any court on this entire planet as a case...or even to start a case."

What exactly would it take to peak your interest?...you're right humans aren't perfect and accidents happen, but such a COMPLETE failure of intelligence from a country that has the most financially backed secret service in the world, with the BEST technology is pretty fuckin hard to swallow. Your view of the world is Naive at best...Dangerously Ignorant at worst.

"The United States needed an excuse to get into it to save the world's collective arse. Whether a few knew about the attack before it happened doesn't matter. There IS a such thing as human error. Anyway.. things turned out for the best in the end."

Are you saying that the government let the Attacks happen on Pearl Harbour by mistake??? How can you say "Whether a few knew about the attack before it happened doesn't matter"...when Thousands of American Servicemen lost their lives needlessly?...It must be quite a luxury to be as caloused towards human life as you seem to be.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 311
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Re: More stuff for G.C. to ponder... [Re: Rono]
    #673392 - 06/11/02 04:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"You're right, I would...even you have admitted that your government keeps info from the people...I.e. Pearl Harbour, that resulted in the needless loss of American lives....and yet you can't accept the possibilty that it would do it again to save it's econonimical ass?...That's pretty hypocritical of you."

NO I did not admit my government did such in regards to the Pearl Harbor attack. Here's a website with some FACTUAL information for you. Do take a look... http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/myths/index.html .

"What exactly would it take to peak your interest?...you're right humans aren't perfect and accidents happen, but such a COMPLETE failure of intelligence from a country that has the most financially backed secret service in the world, with the BEST technology is pretty fuckin hard to swallow. Your view of the world is Naive at best...Dangerously Ignorant at worst. "

What would it take to peak my interest? Cold hard facts directly linking the people you claim invovled in this mad conspiracy of yours..like video tapes,audio tapes, government documents directly relating to it, direct witnesses...etc. not just the opinion of people interpreting irrelivant facts and events as they see fit to suit their opinions. My view of the world is not naive. I am aware things go wrong sometimes. I am aware governments make mistakes. I do not blame EVERYTHING on my government though. I realize it needs improvement, but I don't see it as a corrupt evil empire like you do apparently.

"Are you saying that the government let the Attacks happen on Pearl Harbour by mistake??? How can you say "Whether a few knew about the attack before it happened doesn't matter"...when Thousands of American Servicemen lost their lives needlessly?...It must be quite a luxury to be as caloused towards human life as you seem to be"

No the government did not make it happen by mistake. Human error was slightly invovled though. There was no conspiracy with Roosevelt and the higher ups to allow it to happen just to enter the war. I was merely saying it ended up for the better . If the United States had not entered into the war it could have spelled BAD news to most of the world...and eventually the U.S. as well.



--------------------
"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."
Vote Great Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?


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