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Offlinesupercropper
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Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide *DELETED*
    #6713620 - 03/26/07 05:05 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by supercropper

Reason for deletion: ok


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OfflineBlehMaestro
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: supercropper]
    #6713644 - 03/26/07 05:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the casing layer to begin with? You need the casing layer to deliver moisture to the mycelium.

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Offlinesupercropper
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: BlehMaestro]
    #6713683 - 03/26/07 05:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You would still have a casing layer there, just the top, loose layer would be swept away before the myc pokes through.

I just did this and I ended up sweeping about 1/8"-1/4" from my casing layer, so it still ends up having about a 1/2" layer since I started with 5/8"

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InvisibleSillicybin
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: supercropper]
    #6713754 - 03/26/07 06:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The problem is that when you remove the casing layer, you damage the mycelium.  Unless you knock it off with some sort of object, the casing layer the myc has a hold on will keep it in place.

I've tried this in an attempt to rush a casing, and ended up with horrible results. :mad2:

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Offlinecharon123
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: supercropper]
    #6713760 - 03/26/07 06:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't really see a problem with that, as long as you make sure than the colonized part is undisturbed and not touched by your hands (to prevent contamination). I'm a n00b at this so take these words with a pound of salt. :wink:


--------------------
*This post is entirely fictional. I bought a box of Cracker Jacks and looked for the prize inside, which happened to be this strange tale. This is something unusual to find in junk food, so I decided to post it here.*

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Offlinesupercropper
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: charon123]
    #6713775 - 03/26/07 06:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If you brush it off the way I did, the top layer simply rolls off without disturbing the myc below. I measured on the side of the casing and I still have 1/4" to 1/2" of fully colonized casing layer. And I can see the myc just below the entire surface of the casing layer.
Hopefully if there was damage, it will recover within 24 hours.

Basically I just knocked off what was not held on by the myc below.

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InvisibleRoachMan
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: supercropper]
    #6713786 - 03/26/07 06:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

supercropper said:
If you brush it off the way I did, the top layer simply rolls off without disturbing the myc below.  I measured on the side of the casing and I still have 1/4" to 1/2" of fully colonized casing layer.  And I can see the myc just below the entire surface of the casing layer.
Hopefully if there was damage, it will recover within 24 hours.

Basically I just knocked off what was not held on by the myc below.




That is exactly what I did before birthing the entire casings into the GH being suspended with braided fishing line.

Casing slash cake slash 360 degree tek. :grin:


--------------------
"The mistake that I make is to try to come awake in a place you're just supposed to get shit faced or baked."

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Offlineprofessor_mudd
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: supercropper]
    #6713790 - 03/26/07 06:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

What did u use for your casing layer?

-P.M.-


--------------------
All I have written is and always will be fiction, with nothing anchored in the realm of reality.

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Offlinesupercropper
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: supercropper]
    #6713794 - 03/26/07 06:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

By the way, I am speaking of a 100% vermiculite casing layer, so this may be tougher to do with 50/50.....dont know.

Edited by supercropper (03/26/07 06:54 PM)

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Offlinesupercropper
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: supercropper]
    #6713802 - 03/26/07 06:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yay for same minute posts:cool:

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InvisibleHSIHd
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: supercropper]
    #6713810 - 03/26/07 06:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Read this. Know this. Love this.

Agar's Pinning Strategy

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InvisibleRoachMan
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: professor_mudd]
    #6713824 - 03/26/07 06:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

professor_mudd said:
What did u use for your casing layer?

-P.M.-




Quote:

supercropper said:
By the way, I have a 100% vermiculite casing layer, so this may be tougher to do with 50/50.....dont know.




Just for the record: I use an 80% verm / 20% coir mix (give or take 5%).


--------------------
"The mistake that I make is to try to come awake in a place you're just supposed to get shit faced or baked."

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Offlineprofessor_mudd
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: RoachMan]
    #6713832 - 03/26/07 06:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Roachman said:

Quote:

Just for the record: I use an 80% verm / 20% coir mix (give or take 5%).




Same here, with a dash of hydrated lime for a more basic PH.

-P.M.-


--------------------
All I have written is and always will be fiction, with nothing anchored in the realm of reality.

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Offlinesupercropper
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: HSIHd]
    #6713838 - 03/26/07 06:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, I have read that, and alluded to that in the OP. I am speaking strictly from the even myc layer standpoint.
Letting the mycelium colonize until a little patch pokes through the top does not really mean all of the rest of the myc is at the same level in the casing layer. This obviously would reduce pinset compared to a completely even distribution of myc across the surface. Even if the topography of the casing is not even, the mycelium will be at the edge of the surface in every area of the casing, guaranteed.

I guess the real question would be if an even casing layer is more important than an even surface of mycelium.

Edited by supercropper (03/26/07 06:38 PM)

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Offlineprofessor_mudd
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: professor_mudd]
    #6713843 - 03/26/07 06:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

By the way roachman, I just went over your 360 experiment.

You'll see my response there.

Good job!!

-P.M.-


--------------------
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InvisibleRoachMan
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: supercropper]
    #6713878 - 03/26/07 06:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

supercropper said:
Yes, I have read that, and alluded to that in the OP. I am speaking strictly from the even myc layer standpoint.
Letting the mycelium colonize until a little patch pokes through the top does not really mean all of the rest of the myc is at the same level in the casing layer. This obviously would reduce pinset compared to a completely even distribution of myc across the surface. Even if the topography of the casing is not even, the mycelium will be at the edge of the surface in every area of the casing, guaranteed.

I guess the real question would be if an even casing layer is more important than an even surface of mycelium.




An even casing layer helps to provide a more even pinset (more important with larger tubs that aren't so easy to pick up).

In my opinion, if you are knocking off the uncolonized casing material then you are in a way creating an evenly colonized casing layer.

However, you are also removing some of the water that will be used to create fruits, and decreasing the humidity of the microclimate slightly.

These are just RoachMan assumptions based on scientific principles, but I'd like to hear an old hand's standpoint on the matter.

(EDITED to also include):

Even barely colonized casing material with wispy growth still has the ability to keep growing during fruiting and therefore the propensity to pin in the future for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or even 5th flush.

(Using a GH is great in that it helps to prevent contams that the still air in tubs encourages, and yes...IME.)


--------------------
"The mistake that I make is to try to come awake in a place you're just supposed to get shit faced or baked."

Edited by RoachMan (03/26/07 06:50 PM)

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OfflineQuake3
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: RoachMan]
    #6713896 - 03/26/07 06:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

By removing the casing layer, you might have an even surface, but you are losing the casing layer, which has the purpose of providing moisture to the mycelium. Your idea is basically to add a tiny bit of extra spawn and then case with no casing layer. It's pointless to even add a casing layer if you're going to remove it.

Don't worry too much about pinset, it's eye-candy and it's an art, but it doesn't affect yield.

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Offlinesupercropper
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: Quake3]
    #6714143 - 03/26/07 08:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The entire casing layer isn't to be removed, just a small portion of it. There should still be enough verm to hydrate an entire flush.

I am not arguing my side, I am just trying to make it clear what I am describing.

1. Allow casing layer to colonize for 2 days or so after initial application. (watch the side of the tub, and when the rhizomorph's are over half way up the casing layer along the entire edge, proceed to step 2)
2. Brush off and remove uncolonized layer of verm (some places hardly any will move, others there will be a chasm left) If you end up removing most of the casing layer, perhaps recase and up incubation period.
3. Place in fruiting chamber and mist/fan as usual.
4. Enjoy a mountainous terrain of equal sized shroomdom?

Also, reducing the amount of uncolonized casing material should help to trigger pinning faster in the area's that would otherwise be covered with 1/4" or more of verm.

I would think, if this method was perfected, it would actually benefit the microclimate of a casing, and bring it closer to the efficiency of a cake. Just a theory.

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InvisibleSillicybin
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: supercropper]
    #6714147 - 03/26/07 08:05 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A peat-based casing layer DOES make this more difficult.

With straight verm, it's easier to use gravity to remove the uncolonized portion.

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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: Idea for more even pinset on casings...or pure lack of intelligence...you decide [Re: HSIHd]
    #6714544 - 03/26/07 09:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HSIHd said:
Read this. Know this. Love this.

Agar's Pinning Strategy


:yesnod:

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