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 Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: 
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 On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) 
#6712726 - 03/26/07 12:05 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Composted chicken manure is great. Use at no more than 5%, which is one cup of chicken manure to each 20 cups of coir or horse manure.
[...]
The only critical ingredient is chicken manure, and too much is bad.
Roger,
Can you tell me what compound the chicken manure would be too "hot" in to add in larger quantities when using coir?
It would make sense to me to not use large quantities of it in addition to horse manure, but for coir, it got me wondering a little.
Quote:
http://www.actahort.org/books/172/172_27.htm
Research has fundamentally changed this formulation. Nowadays chicken manure is used as the exclusive organic N source. [...] Two formulas are in use now, one for horse manure compost and one for synthetic (= straw) compost. [...] For synthetic compost preferably wheat or rye straw is used. Per tonne 600–900 kg of chicken manure, 75 kg of gypsum and about 5000 l of water are added, resulting in 3000 kg of compost.
Quote:
http://agaricus.ru/en/doc/show/zero/
Straw, 1000 kg +
Chicken manure, 600-700 kg +
Gypsum 60-70, kg +
Water 4-5 m3, (cubic meters)
============================
Straw compost, 2-3 tons
I realize A. Bisporus and P. Cubensis vary a bit, but I found these doing some searches on using (composted) chicken manure, so I was wondering your thoughts on using it in roughly these concentrations and why/if it would be detrimental.
Thanks!
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
 
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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 Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: Sillicybin]
#6712742 - 03/26/07 12:11 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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don't expect a reply from RR today...
he is out hiking in the woods.
and I don't use the stuff.
tc
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Laterz, Road
Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!
Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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RoachMan
Old Man
Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 2,083
Loc: Midwest
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: Sillicybin]
#6712763 - 03/26/07 12:21 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Considering that coir will colonize without the poo...
...you are safe to assume that the 5% is "enough".
One of the old hands had stated before to "mix the chix-poo with your water to make a poo-tea before hydrating your coir with it".
The element that is in abundance that is higher in foul-poo than in equine or bovine is nitrogen.
It will burn the myc just as it will burn plant roots. *SIZZLE*
(when adding a nitrogen supplement to coir it's always a good idea to add some gypsum and/or food-grade calcium carbonate)
BTW, I'm strapping on my boot laces right after I get done typing this!
Have a great day, Shroomerites!
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"The mistake that I make is to try to come awake in a place you're just supposed to get shit faced or baked."
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 mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Outside Your Window
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: Roadkill]
#6712786 - 03/26/07 12:31 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Guano (which is basically what we are talking about)is used very succefully in marijuana cultivation. It is used primarily for a nitrogen source (soluble), but it also contains phosphorus, and trace elements. I am speaking of bat guano. I used Sunleaves' Mexican Bat Guano for weed plants a couple of years ago.
The downside- it can burn plants from it very high level of nitrogen. You want older deposits which have mellowed. These deposits can be a 1000 years old.
Sea bird guano is very, very similar. As for chickens, I do not know. I would be scared of using it, esp. if it is still fresh.
Any variety of guano must be used in limited amounts.
Look for aged guano.
I have never used it for myco purposes, but I do have some knowledge of its uses for plants.
I hope this helps.
MM
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Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: Roadkill]
#6712795 - 03/26/07 12:34 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Roadkill said:
don't expect a reply from RR today...
he is out hiking in the woods.
Of course, on the day that I decide to ask!
But - damn good for him! I'm envious.
RoachMan. - Yeah, this is part of the whole reason it makes me wonder:
Quote:
http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
(N-P-K Chart)
Chicken 1.1 .80 .50
Horse .70 .30 .60
Diary cow .25 .15 .25
Steer .70 .30 .40
Chicken manure
Poultry manure (chicken in particular) is the richest animal manure in N-P-K. Chicken manure is considered "hot" and must be composted before adding it to the garden. Otherwise, it will burn any plants it comes in contact with.
I know it has a higher rating on N-P-K than all the other manures, but it would seem that if N-P-K content is the only consideration, a 1:4 concentration of coir to poultry manure would still be safe. I know I've got to be missing something, though.
For this entire thread though, I'm asking purely about pre-composted chicken manure - just to make sure that's clear.
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: Sillicybin]
#6713045 - 03/26/07 01:56 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Don't use bat guano.
It's good for pot & gardens, not for mush/cult.
(insect carnivore shit  )
Most of the data being tossed out, is about adding chicken manure.
TO A COMPOST PILE.
Which gets watered, turned & composted for 7 to 9 weeks.
A lot changes from start to finish, in a compost pile.
Do any of you plan to compost your substrate, before use?
I doubt it.
You can add it to a coir substrate,
But, NEVER over 5%.
About 2.5% is far safer.
Make a slurry of it & hydrate substrate with that soup.
Then pasteurize the substrate.
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: agar]
#6713101 - 03/26/07 02:11 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
agar said:
Most of the data being tossed out, is about adding chicken manure.
TO A COMPOST PILE.
Which gets watered, turned & composted for 7 to 9 weeks.
A lot changes from start to finish, in a compost pile.
Do any of you plan to compost your substrate, before use?
I doubt it.
Agar, thanks for the reply. 
And yes - but they are talking adding raw chicken manure to a compost pile. What we'd be doing is adding already composted chicken manure. Yes, they're two different animals, I know - but all I'm wondering is what compound(s), specifically, it would cause an over-abundance of.
If you can fruit directly from composted horse manure with great results, what's different about getting those same N-P-K values with a different source? There has to be something I'm missing, and I'm just looking for that block.
I mixed 1 part of poultry manure to 2 parts of coir, and came out with a hydrated pH of just around neutral, so I don't think it's an acidity issue...
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: Sillicybin]
#6713223 - 03/26/07 02:49 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Composted chicken manure, is not really COMPOSTED.
It is simply aged/leached somewhat in rotated piles.
You cannot properly mush/cult compost things, without;
A lot of fiber in the pile.
Which contributes the CARBON to the pile.
(cellulose - hemi-cellulose - lignum, etc)
There is almost NO FIBER in chicken manure.
Optimal mush/cult substrate should have a C/N ratio.
Of around 17/1 to 20/1.
The "N" content should be 1.7 to 2.5
Adding chicken manure can throw off a C/N ratio.
If you fubar the ratio's, even slightly.
Moreover, all chicken manure.
Is not the same.
Fryers, broilers & laying hen N/P/K all differ.
(differing feed & diet supplements)
On top of that, don't always BELIEVE the N/P/K on the bag label.
It can be significantly, OFF.
Adding chicken manure to substrate CAN BE ADDING FIRE.
If you do it wrong.
Coir C/N ratio varies from 100/1 to 80/1.
Chicken manure C/N ratio's vary greatly.
So, you are playing with UNKNOWNS.
Which is not wise, in mush/cult.
That is why, to coir, I don't recommend.
Adding more chicken manure than 2 or 3%.
I would rather be safe, than sorry.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: agar]
#6713246 - 03/26/07 02:55 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Agreed. As said, just don't use very much. I've used the composted chicken manure available at nurseries with success, at no more than one cup of chicken manure to 20 cups of other substrate ingredients. Lay it on a tarp in the sun for a few days until there is no ammonia smell, then mix with your other ingredients and pasteurize.
Also as Agar said, bat guano is no good for mycology.
RR
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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: agar]
#6713291 - 03/26/07 03:03 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
agar said:
That is why, to coir, I don't recommend.
Adding more chicken manure than 2 or 3%.
I would rather be safe, than sorry.
Excellent - Agar, thank you. This gives me a much better idea of the reasoning behind your and RR's recommendations.
What I have done, (completely expecting these to fail miserably) is spawned 3 trays:
- 1 tray that is 3 qts coir to 1.75 qts chicken manure, spawned with 1 qt wheat berry spawn.
- 2 trays that are 2 qts coir to 1 qt chicken manure, spawned with 1 qt of wheat berry spawn, each.
These were all spawned last night, so they will be checked on this Wed.
I don't mind experimenting with these, as the spawn was going to be thrown out anyhow (it wasn't quite the quality I normally look for). I just wanted to see what, if anything, I would get out of these. I fully expect that they'll contaminate before they're colonized due to conditions not favoring growth, but I couldn't pass up the chance to see what would happen. 
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: Sillicybin]
#6713375 - 03/26/07 03:23 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Experimenting is FUN.
It is how new envelopes get opened.
Truck just arrived, delivery of 50K plastic spawn jar / LC lids.
For Tippin's project.
Have to go to work:(
Stacking the bastards in the shop.
Why is it, no help is around, when you need it.
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: agar]
#6713428 - 03/26/07 03:34 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Been hearing about that project for so long, I'm beginning to think it's all just a bunch of hype!!
Just kidding. I know you two will get it, and I know a startup business is no easy feat, trust me.
And now, I'm off to play some CounterStrike (computer game), so that I'm not tempted to go play with things I need to just leave alone.
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: On supplementing coir with chicken manure.... (RR - need your input, sir!) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6713588 - 03/26/07 04:19 PM (17 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Agreed. As said, just don't use very much. I've used the composted chicken manure available at nurseries with success, at no more than one cup of chicken manure to 20 cups of other substrate ingredients. Lay it on a tarp in the sun for a few days until there is no ammonia smell, then mix with your other ingredients and pasteurize.
Also as Agar said, bat guano is no good for mycology.
RR
RR, I completely missed that you posted, somehow!
Thank you for the input. The type of chicken manure I found has no ammonia smell whatsoever, so that's a plus. I did, however, put it out in the sun for a couple of days, just in case.
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