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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: America is Great: just not right now [Re: artemis]
    #677645 - 06/14/02 03:54 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

The problem is that we don't want to admit, that we are not the good guys like they made us believe, fighters of freedom saviors of the world etc.
I am not anti American, I am just pointing out that we are no different that any other country in the world, just remember, that the same DNA make up of a taliban fighter is the same as any American, humans are very nasty animals.
Nothing is going to change as long we all believe that we are better than some one else, no matter were you are from, nobody is right we are all wrong, as long as we justify violence.
I have little faith in the human race, if we continue like this.


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: America is Great: just not right now [Re: LOBO]
    #678763 - 06/14/02 03:05 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

LOBO, I think you're right. Hey, I remember you mentioning the glacier Perito Moreno in another post. Man, I've been to that glacier twice, it's mind-blowing. My friend and I jumped over the fence and hiked down to the shore, a stone's throw from the huge glacier face. Insane.


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Offlineramuk
newbie
Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 42
Loc: MI
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: America is Great: just not right now [Re: hongomon]
    #679812 - 06/15/02 07:15 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

To compare our dropping of nukes on Japan in WW2 to palestinian homocide bombers is a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Palestinian homicide bombers follow no code of war, they are using terrorist tactics and subversion in order to strike at mainly civilian targets, they don't war uniforms and melt into the crowds in order to reach their objective. In our case, we followed the generally accepted tactics of war, we struck openly and aggressively on valid targets under the pretenses of a true "war", not a cowardly guerrilla style of attack, and we accepted the risk of losing attacks to a viable defense. There is no real defense against the cowardly tactics employed by palestinian terrorists, except "preemptive" defense that is .

I'm in no way justifying the atomic drop on Japan, but lets get real here, we could have turned that entire island into an ash pile starting with Tokyo if we wanted. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were horrific events but hardly up to what we truly could have done.

And as far as the rest of the drivel posted here Cthulu answered most replies quite well for me.

I make a prediction, we will be at war with Saudia Arabia and hence almost every Muslim nation by the end of this decade. We will not stand by and let nukes and missle tech get into the hands of terrorist nations via China (and Bill Clinton, btw).

Either we seriously start a non-proliferation type treaty and dialouge NOW with China or there is going to be a shitload of trouble in the next 10 years. Stuff that makes 9-11 looks like a picnic.

Just watch.


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If I had a clever, introspective, or spiritual signature line, it would go here.


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: America is Great: just not right now [Re: ramuk]
    #681052 - 06/15/02 08:16 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

homicide bombers.


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: America is Great: just not right now [Re: hongomon]
    #681801 - 06/16/02 09:42 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Yea that place is amazing did you hiked the glaciar? with spike shoes? The coolest thing I ever did well one of the coolest things anyway
Were else did you visit in Argentina?


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: America is Great: just not right now [Re: LOBO]
    #682148 - 06/16/02 01:58 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't actually get on the glacier. Next time.... I lived in a small town called Pico Truncado, about two hours inland from Comodoro Rivadavia. The best thing about Pico Truncado was its water tower, which looked like a giant mushroom. It was "El Hongo" and my friend and I revered it, especially when it stood against the amazing Patagonian sunrises and sunsets.

paz,

hongomon


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Invisibleiglou
enthusiast
Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 295
Re: America is Great: just not right now [Re: Phred]
    #691200 - 06/20/02 05:32 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Chomsky tries to legitimize his views by quoting (and misquoting, and inventing) passages from various government documents he claims to have uncovered through the Freedom of Information Act.

Prove it. Please provide an example, oh wise one. Your severe lack of examples makes me wonder if you just parroted that Chomsky analysis from some idiotic right-winger like David Horowitz.

All the Latino American Dictators were sponsored by the US, why?

ALL? Bullshit. Most rose to power with no help from outside powers at all, and many were sponsored by the USSR.


Well, certainly the worst Latin American dictator award goest to General Pinochet, whom the United States (Kissinger and the CIA specifically) propped up and supported him and his military junta via terrorism, assassination, coup attempts, intervening and ruining democratic elections, overthrowing democratically elected leaders (Allende), mass propaganda campaigns, torture of hundreds of civilians, etc. etc. We supported him whole-heartedly. Why? One reason was that the Americans wanted to experiment with free-market capitalism ala the Chicago School/Milton Friedman in the newly created laboratory conditions of right-wing Chile. What a disaster that turned out to be - matched only in human misery by State Socalism ala USSR (which I find to be tragically ironic...)


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Anonymous

Re: America is Great: just not right now [Re: iglou]
    #691283 - 06/20/02 06:05 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Well, certainly the worst Latin American dictator award goest to General Pinochet
I know of quite a few Cubans who would disagree with you. But what do they know?


We supported him whole-heartedly. Why? One reason was that the Americans wanted to experiment with free-market capitalism ala the Chicago School/Milton Friedman in the newly created laboratory conditions of right-wing Chile.
Looks like that experiment never fully got off the ground. A dictatorship creates conditions that are in direct opposition to a free-market economy such as championed by the Chicago School and Milton Friedman. I suggest that you read "Capitalism and Freedom" by Milton and Rose Friedman to gain some insight into the man's views.


Edited by evolving (06/20/02 06:28 PM)


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Invisibleiglou
enthusiast
Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 295
Re: America is Great: just not right now [Re: ]
    #691767 - 06/21/02 03:26 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I know of quite a few Cubans who would disagree with you. But what do they know?

Of course Castro and his regime has been pretty ruthless -no argument there my friend- but in a comparison of the number of those murdered/tortured per capita, Cuba pales in comparsion to right-wing Chile or other regimes propped up by the United States (63,000 Salvadorans murdered between 1979 and 1992 by right-wing, US-financed death squads for example). This is empirical fact, not political bias.

Looks like that experiment never fully got off the ground.

Sounds like you arent very familiar with what happened in Chile...so go check a search engine with the proper keywords, briefly scan through one or two documents/commentaries that might randomly come up, pick a few lines that caters to your argument, and then spit it back up on these boards to that you appear knowledgeable.

A dictatorship creates conditions that are in direct opposition to a free-market economy such as championed by the Chicago School and Milton Friedman.

Very true in and of itself. But how do you get from point A to point B when a majority of the population democratically chooses some form of socialism but the elite proponents of capitalism have another vision in mind (such as the case with Allende)? Historically the answer has been experiments like Pinochet/Chile and IMF structural adjustment programs (yet another disaster).

I suggest that you read "Capitalism and Freedom" by Milton and Rose Friedman to gain some insight into the man's views.

I already read that book.


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