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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Too Many Humans
    #6699754 - 03/22/07 03:45 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

How many here suspect that there are simply too many humans on this planet right now, and that we are trending towards far too many humans?

I wonder if we should relax our population and our impact on our environment for the benefit for entire ecosystems and all of the species of life that they consist of. We're sort of like the ultimate predator on this planet, after all. In the truest sense, we are simply a collection of single-celled organisms that have become associated with each other through symbiotic relationships.

We may think of ourselves as an uniform individual, yet we're really a community of independant organisms that, through interaction, have developed relationships that benefit the continued existance of each other. Clearly the complexity of this organization, considering things such as DNA and the like is astounding.

Realize that our understanding of evolution as we know it demonstrates that we are a being formed from the ground up, and not the other way around. We exist as an ecosystem.

Its no surprise that I start to contemplate the state and balance of the ecosystem that we exist within. For instance, the threat to the Great Barrier Reef, the world's largest living structure. The rain forest! So much life, all interacting with each other, all this life centered around an enclosed system of water. :stoned:

I think human life would benefit from being conscious of our impact on our ecosystem and leaving a minimal footprint. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6699762 - 03/22/07 03:47 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

There are too many humans on the planet. I'm not too worried about it though, nature generally balances things out (disease, natural disasters) even despite artificial barriers to it's success.

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OfflineLion
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6699781 - 03/22/07 03:54 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

For my part, I don't think I will bring any children into this world, and if I meet someone who I want to spend the rest of my life with I would like to think about adoption.

It really makes my heart ache to see the world's natural beauty being diminished.

I was reading an article about Haiti today that got me thinking. The island is an ecological treasure, but Haitians are so poor and the country so poorly managed that people are forced to destroy their environment seeking food and shelter - the island now has only 2% forest cover. Meanwhile, people on the island are literally eating dirt and mud to survive.

It does indeed seem important that the human population cease to balloon within the next few generations, and I hope that it will in a healthy way.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Offlinepsychonaut93
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Lion]
    #6699980 - 03/22/07 05:05 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Perhaps a global wide enforced eugenics program?


--------------------
"I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this." - AL II:22

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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6700068 - 03/22/07 05:31 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

most definitely

it's amazing how if every couple only had 1 child, and this went on for 4 or 5 generations, how quickly the population would dwindle to a more reasonable and accommodative level


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6700212 - 03/22/07 06:18 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Personally, I don't think the world's population is a major problem. Now, the omission of green house gases, the waging of wars and a nuclear stand off between a hairy, insane Persian and a slow-witted Texan Cowboy is somewhat more troublesome.

There's alot of regions in the world that have low populations, many with fairly inconsistent populations, and then there's a few basket cases like India and China.

It is not so much the human population that is bad for the green side of earth's crust, but their behavior and living style.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6700229 - 03/22/07 06:23 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

where's that reset button?


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Basilides]
    #6700295 - 03/22/07 06:45 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Personally, I don't think the world's population is a major problem. Now, the omission of green house gases, the waging of wars and a nuclear stand off between a hairy, insane Persian and a slow-witted Texan Cowboy is somewhat more troublesome.




Yes, most definitely. Its not our population itself, but rather the effects of the practices of that population. Even if we lessened our impact, the simple presence alone of this many humans and even basic structures for housing will impose upon nature.

I think we have a place on this planet, don't get me wrong. I simply wonder why we do not become more conscious in the decision to increase our presence on this planet, as relying on simple, instinctual urges with no considerable, external check in place will mean the consumption of our resources to the point at which we will not be capable of sustaining ourselves further.

I mean, to be honest, with the advances in technology and science that we continue to pioneer, there will be less and less threat to our continued existance, within the realm of what we know now (even collision from outer space could potentially be ruled out in the future). I think we should assume the responsibility with that, as conscious beings, to respect the diversity and flourishment of other life.

Clearly, there is no conception of how things "should" be. Species go extinct. Ecosystems change. Hell, at one point, there was no life at all. Yet, we are life. Why would we wish to edge out all of this life? Nature is a beautiful thing, and no doubt it is fragile. There pretty much is a point of no return here. Once a species is gone, its gone.

I think it simply comes down to ourselves making the choice as to whether or not we wish to transform this earth to a sterile rock devoid of all life but our own and some of the life that has most adapted to our ways, or if we wish to reduce our presence on this planet to allow for more life that is not human.

I think it is a quality of life vs. quantity of life issue as well. Consciously choosing as a species to dramatically lessen our footprint on the planet and to have less population is not going to pose a serious threat to our own survival as a species.

Perhaps I'm finding that I'm not just as attached to human life, as I've already died in some respects (thanks to acid :grin:)? I think it would be for the benefit of human life, however. The more trees and grasses, the cleaner our air will be for us to breathe, and the more organisms on this planet absorbing the energy from the Sun, the better, in my opinion (you know, how the Sun is the source of all life, and all that).

Perhaps we are so attached to the importance of human life that we don't realize that whether or not life is human is not the issue. It is a question of life itself, and the more diverse life is, the more capable it will be of surviving, regardless of which form it is in.

I realize that this might touch on the "global warming" issue, but I feel that such is simply a distraction from the main point. We are poisoning the environment for other life and ourselves. We are plowing and harvesting forests and prairie and swamps and oceans. I am not concerned with whether or not these actions by us are raising the global temperature - they are proven to be causing serious devastation. I think it sucks. :thumbdown:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6700320 - 03/22/07 06:50 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

yes, there are too many humans. therefore we need bombs, and large quantities of enemies.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6700326 - 03/22/07 06:52 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Its no surprise that I start to contemplate the state and balance of the ecosystem that we exist within. For instance, the threat to the Great Barrier Reef, the world's largest living structure.




The Great Barrier Reef is being  de-forested  by an infestation of Crown of Thorn starfish....  :frown:
Australia's land is getting invaded by all of those Cane toads as well.... 
:hypnotoad:

Life is change.... 
Footprint or no footprint, big or small, the impact of everything always seems to teeter to a balance point of some sort eventually....
Until it changes again....    :grin:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6700409 - 03/22/07 07:13 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
The Great Barrier Reef is being  de-forested  by an infestation of Crown of Thorn starfish....  :frown:
Australia's land is getting invaded by all of those Cane toads as well.... 
:hypnotoad:





Yes, I realize this. We are an invasive species as well; we know all about it. :grin:

Your point is well-taken. There is no objective concept of how anything on this planet "should" be. New diseases spring forth that simply decimate entire species. I was reading recently about a enormous threat to amphibious life due to some sort of thing. Humans could not exist at all and everything would be in constant flux.

Despite this, however, I still think that we should be concerned with our footprint and our population, if for nothing else but our own benefit.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6700451 - 03/22/07 07:23 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

It could argued that,

invasive species = successful species


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Trepiodos]
    #6700582 - 03/22/07 07:53 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Define success.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6700608 - 03/22/07 07:58 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Increasing the instances of and/or ensuring the continued existence of your genes.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6700621 - 03/22/07 08:01 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Despite this, however, I still think that we should be concerned with our footprint and our population, if for nothing else but our own benefit.




I have to agree, we **should** be more conscientious about the footprints we leave behind -
as a *mostly* caring species of humanoids looking out for the benefit of future generations....
True dat~....    :thumbup:
But it is not usually people like us average Joe Shmoe's that do the BIG damage to the environment....
We all play a part, yes, but the bigger rollers play a bigger part, and those motivations are with money more-so than the environment....

The cane toad infestation was actually of human origin (ignorance),
even tho~ they have successfully taken over the campaign to dominate the land....
Don't know if such things could be better or worse from an OVERALL observational point of view thru the years,
but at least a major lesson was learned and the chances of this blatantly happening again are much less....(?)
One can hope anyways....    :ohwell:

As far as population(control) goes, it is difficult for me to draw a line....
"Responsible" people **usually** have the amount of children that they can support....
It is the "not so responsible" people that can't afford themselves,
but still managing to birth 10 children that they don't want nor take care of that kinda~ erk~ me....
You need a lot of licenses for a lot of things, but not having children....  :nut:
Maybe it is all for a reason, maybe it will change in the future - as again, change is the most consistent theme in life....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Trepiodos]
    #6700669 - 03/22/07 08:15 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Trepiodos said:
Increasing the instances of and/or ensuring the continued existence of your genes.




Then there is no arguement that an invasive species equates with that. Well, actually, there is. The simple fact that an invasive species, typically, does not have something in that ecosystem that will hold its population in check means that it will continue to consume and reproduce. I could not imagine that this would simply perpetuate over time. Eventually all of the resources will be consumed and it will have nothing supporting its continued life. Perhaps a comparison between invasive species and cancer is not uncalled for here.

Humans are unique as invasive species, however. We aren't just another animal. :grin:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6700709 - 03/22/07 08:26 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Some invasive species will find a point of equilibrium with their environment, some will not (to their detriment). There can be found examples of both instances. Some out compete the native species and after doing so, are kept in check by limits of the environment.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Trepiodos]
    #6700715 - 03/22/07 08:27 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Very true. :grin:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleClean
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6700716 - 03/22/07 08:27 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

As far as habitable land vs. people to inhabit it, I don't think there's too many of us.

Earth is huge. We're crammed in incredibly inefficient, unsustainable cities. The sight of these monstrosities from a distance may contribute to the feeling that there's too many of us.

I can't talk about growth rates because I haven't looked at the numbers, and I probably wouldn't believe them if I did.

I think the main population problem is this: we have a surplus of idiots and a drastic shortage of smart people.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6703159 - 03/23/07 01:42 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

I think we have a place on this planet, don't get me wrong. I simply wonder why we do not become more conscious in the decision to increase our presence on this planet, as relying on simple, instinctual urges with no considerable, external check in place will mean the consumption of our resources to the point at which we will not be capable of sustaining ourselves further.






I think we don't become more aware of the danger we're heading to if we keep on dis-considering our planet the way we do is due to the fact that we are only driven by this urge to increase our "standards of living, because we're so attached y the material part without thinking in perspective.
Most people live their life thinking that they only have this limited time on Earth and when this time is over northing's left of them. This way of thinking not only erases the perspective of the existence of a spirit, but also makes them feel this despair of gaining goods.
Also this mentality has so much to do with history, especially on the western mind, since this history is about taking over the "inferior races" and making slaves. This master-servant complex is still in our minds so in extent we use the nature as our slave.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6703489 - 03/23/07 03:08 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Too many for my taste. Even if every one of them was loving and cool.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6703642 - 03/23/07 03:42 PM (17 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
... is due to the fact that we are only driven by this urge to increase our "standards of living,



I consider cleaner water, cleaner air and decreased destruction of (or restoration of) wilderness to be an increase in the standard of living.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Trepiodos]
    #6703954 - 03/23/07 06:12 PM (17 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Trepiodos said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
... is due to the fact that we are only driven by this urge to increase our "standards of living,



I consider cleaner water, cleaner air and decreased destruction of (or restoration of) wilderness to be an increase in the standard of living.




Me too :smile:.
Only that many people think that increasing their standards of living resumes in each member of the family owning and SUV, having their lights on even when they're not home and so many useless and destructive stuff as these.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Icelander]
    #6704052 - 03/23/07 06:51 PM (17 years, 9 days ago)

I mean why do we think it necessary to see another human everytime we turn around? There used to me much more variety out there. Now it's just humans in black and white.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Icelander]
    #6705035 - 03/24/07 12:33 AM (17 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I mean why do we think it necessary to see another human everytime we turn around?




What, you were just at Wal*Mart too? :rolleyes: :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6705036 - 03/24/07 12:34 AM (17 years, 9 days ago)

Hey - the more humans, the more profit there is to be had. :evil:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6705771 - 03/24/07 08:49 AM (17 years, 9 days ago)

You joke. But that's almost all there is too it. Look at the Catholics. It's all business.

Well that and the idiotic notion that a man and woman have to leave a legacy to themselves.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Too Many Humans [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6705856 - 03/24/07 09:28 AM (17 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

I think human life would benefit from being conscious of our impact on our ecosystem and leaving a minimal footprint. :mushroom2:




I believe that we need to act in the best interest for our planet, not for ourselves.  To care about something, regardless if it provides for you or not. Why look at it as a thing for humans to gain from?

this attitude perpetuates that line of thinking which may be one reason why we don't leave tiny footprints in the first place.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Too Many Humans [Re: kaiowas]
    #6705873 - 03/24/07 09:35 AM (17 years, 9 days ago)

Lets face facts, we act in self interest. If we act in enlightened self interest then there is no problem. Problem is we usually do not take the time to learn what is really in our best interest. It's humanity's big problem.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Icelander]
    #6705886 - 03/24/07 09:42 AM (17 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Lets face facts, we act in self interest. If we act in enlightened self interest then there is no problem. Problem is we usually do not take the time to learn what is really in our best interest. It's humanity's big problem.



I agree, with qualification. Enlightened self-interest involves realizing our oneness and interconnectedness with others and with our environment. With this in mind, the distinction between altruism and self-interest fades away.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Silversoul]
    #6705900 - 03/24/07 09:48 AM (17 years, 9 days ago)

That's what I mean. To live and let live, to share and love, this is enlightened self interest IMO. There is enough for all and this includes all non human life also. We could be having fun here instead of living in fear trying to kill off all the "competition" and perpetuate our tribe.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Too Many Humans [Re: Icelander]
    #6706098 - 03/24/07 11:22 AM (17 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

We could be having fun here instead of living in fear trying to kill off all the "competition" and perpetuate our tribe.




You should NEVER kill off the competition....you should enslave them. That way you can have more fun while your enemies do your bidding! :smile:


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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