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mushiemountain
i am the sacredone
Registered: 06/24/04
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It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God
#6696566 - 03/21/07 07:37 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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i have to back this conclusion up tomorrow in a debate. the topic is "It is reasonable to believe in God" but we have to debate the opposing side of that statement.
so far i have only come up with... what does it mean to be reasonable? reasonable can be mean one thing to a person and mean a different thing to someone else. what is God? God could be many things. it isn't reasonable to believe in god because we may never know anything with 100% truth to it.
can anyone help me out?
-------------------- I Ain't No Fool. Mama Didn't Raise No Fool. ----------primussucks
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it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: mushiemountain]
#6696577 - 03/21/07 07:40 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: mushiemountain]
#6696585 - 03/21/07 07:42 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mushiemountain said: it isn't reasonable to believe in god because we may never know anything with 100% truth to it.
Is there something that we know with 100% truth to it?
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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dblaney
Human Being
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: mushiemountain]
#6696618 - 03/21/07 07:52 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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As with any investigation, it is best to start with no assumptions...just the bare minimum. In this case, just the universe as it is. From that, what reasons could there be to posit a supernatural being (if that's the given definition of God here..."god" could mean many things to many people)? Think about possible reasons and deconstruct them.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: dblaney]
#6696632 - 03/21/07 07:56 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Right on.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: Icelander]
#6696667 - 03/21/07 08:05 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is reasonable to believe that humanity does not understand God yet.
But we are in this process. Evolution of consciousness inevitably leads to this.
It is not reasonable to close your mind to the possibility that God...is.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: Grok]
#6696703 - 03/21/07 08:11 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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No one is saying close your mind to the possibility of God. It's that there is no real evidence of there being a God.;)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: Icelander]
#6696715 - 03/21/07 08:12 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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All a matter of perspective there
I've yet to see evidence of there not being God.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
Edited by cilosyb (03/21/07 08:13 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: Grok]
#6696736 - 03/21/07 08:14 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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It all comes down to what one calls evidence.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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demiu5
humans, lol
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: Icelander]
#6696756 - 03/21/07 08:17 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I just wanted to
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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dblaney
Human Being
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: demiu5]
#6696828 - 03/21/07 08:33 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Wasteland
Elektromeister!
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: dblaney]
#6696977 - 03/21/07 09:03 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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This keyboard, can be touched, seen, weighed, burned, crushed, smashed and is easily recognized as existing.
God can not be seen, cannot be touched, cannot be weighed... So on and so forth.
Faith is required to believe in a god.
But, just as the greeks where sure of Zeus, many people are still convinced that there is a invisible, omnipresent, sentient, supernatural being floating in the clouds and farting thunder.
-------------------- The Mad Shroomer said: People are always promising the apocalypse. They never deliver.
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Icelander
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: Wasteland]
#6696996 - 03/21/07 09:06 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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That pretty well sums it up.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: Wasteland]
#6697294 - 03/21/07 10:05 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Wasteland said: This keyboard, can be touched, seen, weighed, burned, crushed, smashed and is easily recognized as existing.
But is your keyboard just a keyboard? Isn't it actually the same matter and ultimately energy in motion that is all of the universe? How did this energy come to be? What keeps it moving? Why? How does it arrange itself into the utterly beautiful, complex, and self-recreating (evolving) interconnected process of life that simply cannot be random? Why does this energy appear to be alive and conscious when I take psychedelics?
Quote:
God can not be seen, cannot be touched, cannot be weighed... So on and so forth.
So far as your experience has shown you.
Quote:
Faith is required to believe in a god.
What if God is experienced?
Quote:
But, just as the greeks where sure of Zeus, many people are still convinced that there is a invisible, omnipresent, sentient, supernatural being floating in the clouds and farting thunder.
God doesn't have to be a supernatural being. Everything is God.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
Edited by cilosyb (03/21/07 10:09 PM)
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: Grok]
#6697401 - 03/21/07 10:32 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cilosyb said:
Quote:
Wasteland said:
This keyboard, can be touched, seen, weighed, burned, crushed, smashed and is easily recognized as existing.
But is your keyboard just a keyboard? Isn't it actually the same matter and ultimately energy in motion that is all of the universe? How did this energy come to be? What keeps it moving? Why? How does it arrange itself into the utterly beautiful, complex, and self-recreating (evolving) interconnected process of life that simply cannot be random? Why does this energy appear to be alive and conscious when I take psychedelics?
Quote:
cilosyb said:
Quote:
God can not be seen, cannot be touched, cannot be weighed... So on and so forth.
So far as your experience has shown you.
Indeed.
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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Syle
Kenai Sigh
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: mushiemountain]
#6697438 - 03/21/07 10:38 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mushiemountain said: i have to back this conclusion up tomorrow in a debate. the topic is "It is reasonable to believe in God" but we have to debate the opposing side of that statement.
so far i have only come up with... what does it mean to be reasonable? reasonable can be mean one thing to a person and mean a different thing to someone else. what is God? God could be many things. it isn't reasonable to believe in god because we may never know anything with 100% truth to it.
can anyone help me out?
is it reasonable to pursue a passion even though you have no idea if it will make you poor or rich?
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
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Posts: 4,587
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: Grok]
#6697538 - 03/21/07 11:02 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Isn't it actually the same matter and ultimately energy in motion that is all of the universe? How did this energy come to be? What keeps it moving? Why? How does it arrange itself into the utterly beautiful, complex, and self-recreating (evolving) interconnected process of life...
What does this have to do with God? There are very good natural explanations for all of this. Why conflate it with unnecessary entities?
Quote:
that simply cannot be random?
That is a rather credulous conviction.
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy
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Posts: 1,262
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Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#6697616 - 03/21/07 11:23 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:
Isn't it actually the same matter and ultimately energy in motion that is all of the universe? How did this energy come to be? What keeps it moving? Why? How does it arrange itself into the utterly beautiful, complex, and self-recreating (evolving) interconnected process of life...
Quote:
What does this have to do with God? There are very good natural explanations for all of this. Why conflate it with unnecessary entities?
It has everything to do with God...because God is all of it! All natural, logical, and truthful explanations are explanations of God. God is the bigger picture, the entire natural life process, which all understandings and explanations are a part of. This has nothing to do with external entities. The Process of life itself IS God. This is God happening! You needn't look anywhere else or imagine some being orchestrating all of this for strange reasons! This is IT! None if happens for reasons that don't make sense...but only for reasons that we don't yet understand.
Quote:
that simply cannot be random?
Quote:
That is a rather credulous conviction.
There's this quote I like, I don't remember the exact words or the name of the guy who wrote it, but he was a biologist at John Hopkins University who subscribed heavily to the BELIEF that life was born of the random interaction of small particles until he had several profound experiences with psychedleics which led him to say something along the lines of-
"To say that life is random is akin to having a tornado tear through a junkyard and construct a perfectly new 747 and say the same."
Open your eyes man. There is nothing random or accidental about life. Go into the mountains and smoke DMT and tell me you believe it's all random or we aren't part of and ONE WITH something much greater than our normal perception would let us acknowledge.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
Edited by cilosyb (03/21/07 11:29 PM)
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FrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: mushiemountain]
#6697618 - 03/21/07 11:23 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's like writing a debate on why it's not reasonable to believe in the tooth fairy, or transdimensional hyperspatial badgers. It's obviously made up.
Honestly, I think all this hype over theism is completely undeserved. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe some day someone will prove that God's existence is more probable then the tooth fairies. Until that day however I put them in the same category.
-------------------- "Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin
Edited by FrenchSocialist (03/21/07 11:24 PM)
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Wasteland
Elektromeister!
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Re: It Is Not Reasonable To Believe In God [Re: FrenchSocialist]
#6697648 - 03/21/07 11:31 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FrenchSocialist said: That's like writing a debate on why it's not reasonable to believe in the tooth fairy, or transdimensional hyperspatial badgers. It's obviously made up.
Honestly, I think all this hype over theism is completely undeserved. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe some day someone will prove that God's existence is more probable then the tooth fairies. Until that day however I put them in the same category.
-------------------- The Mad Shroomer said: People are always promising the apocalypse. They never deliver.
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