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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinemoon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
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working with solar power/wind
    #6682937 - 03/18/07 10:06 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

a big part of my spirituality is being in harmony wiht nature. but im too domestic to live in a tree.

doese anyone elese here have an interest in creating solar/wind energy harvesting systems for their home/life style? id love to make a hobby out of it. Does anyone have any experience with it?

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: moon_glue]
    #6683136 - 03/18/07 11:16 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds like technology....not philosophy.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6683189 - 03/18/07 11:27 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

...agian ignoring spirituality?

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Offlinemoon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: Gomp]
    #6683260 - 03/18/07 11:41 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sounds like technology....not philosophy.




put them together. then you have something.

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InvisibleMorelman
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Re: working with solar power/wind *DELETED* [Re: moon_glue]
    #6695161 - 03/21/07 12:13 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

Reason for deletion: Never again...



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InvisibleZippoZM
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Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: Morelman]
    #6699460 - 03/22/07 02:26 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_updraft_tower

now thats what im talkin about


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6699650 - 03/22/07 03:17 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

On a completely unrelated note, I was at a talk last week on campus here about renewable energy, and a team of Physics/Engineering professors were talking about some work their doing on *Painted-On Solar Collectors*.

Some kind of method of slathering stuff that looks like black paint on a surface, and using that to collect energy.

It sounded like they were in the extremely conceptual stages, but *THAT* would be something interesting. As I understand it, the biggest barrier to actually using solar energy on a large scale is the extreme expense and fragility of the solar collectors, no?


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
Lost In My Head
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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6701714 - 03/23/07 01:09 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:



As I understand it, the biggest barrier to actually using solar energy on a large scale is the extreme expense and fragility of the solar collectors, no?




Actually i think its their efficiency, most solar panels are only ~20-30%, even most Solar Farms are only at 60-80%. I think...


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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts

Edited by ThirdEyeOpening (03/23/07 01:14 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: ThirdEyeOpening]
    #6702026 - 03/23/07 05:20 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

> most solar panels are only ~20-30%

Much, much less than that. Theoretical maximum efficiency is around 36%. Very expensive space grade cells are in the 22% to 23% range. Expensive terrestrial grade are in the 15% to 18% range. The typical amorphous cells found in your solar powered calculator and most panels are in the 8% range.

Efficiency ratings are calculated at solar noon in the best possible conditions... something that is only seen for a few minutes each day, so again, the numbers given are all maximums. Unless you are a satellite in space, you are not going to see an array running at 20% efficiency continuous.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: Seuss]
    #6702422 - 03/23/07 08:33 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Very expensive space grade cells are in the 22% to 23% range.



They use Gallium Arsenide Triple Junction cells in space with an efficiency of max 28%. Costs: $320/Watt.

A wind turbine can be very profitable in Holland because you can sell your energy to the grid for the same price you would pay for it.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: Annom]
    #6702493 - 03/23/07 09:14 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

> They use Gallium Arsenide Triple Junction cells in space with an efficiency of max 28%.

Yeah, I am starting to show my age... when I was working with the tech, around ten years ago, we were still on the single junction cells at 23%... same price though... nothing quite as nerve wracking as working with three million dollars worth of super fragile glass.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleZippoZM
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Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: Seuss]
    #6702546 - 03/23/07 09:39 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

man im telling yall, i hate to be redundant, but really.... solar up draft towers are they key to this whole solar energy thing.


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6702557 - 03/23/07 09:46 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

> solar up draft towers are they key to this whole solar energy thing.

Unfortunately, I don't think we could have fit an updraft tower onto the satellite.  Besides, updrafts require gravity, and the microgravity in space just isn't enough to do any good... :wink:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleDNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 12,326
Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6702910 - 03/23/07 12:17 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Capatalistc nomad said:
man im telling yall, i hate to be redundant, but really.... solar up draft towers are they key to this whole solar energy thing.




There is no cure-all for our energy problems and it's sure as hell way to early in the game to be saying "this one is better than that one".

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: Seuss]
    #6703132 - 03/23/07 01:37 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> They use Gallium Arsenide Triple Junction cells in space with an efficiency of max 28%.

Yeah, I am starting to show my age... when I was working with the tech, around ten years ago, we were still on the single junction cells at 23%... same price though... nothing quite as nerve wracking as working with three million dollars worth of super fragile glass.



This solar car is made by students of my faculty/university. I've seen it many times and it still is an amazing car!

It uses Gallium Arsenide Triple Junction cells from ESA with some optical defects(space rejects). 26.5% efficiency. There is over half a million worth of cells on that car.

I'm following a Sustainable Development course at the moment. It is given by the first dutch astronaut which makes it more exiting because he has lots of great stories. He is working on a very ambitious project called the superbus:

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: working with solar power/wind [Re: ZippoZ]
    #6703200 - 03/23/07 01:53 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Capatalistc nomad said:
man im telling yall, i hate to be redundant, but really.... solar up draft towers are they key to this whole solar energy thing.




No, really, they aren't.

A 50kW(large nuclear power plant = 1,000,000kW) prototype built in Spain used a greenhouse collector of 240m in diameter and a 195m high chimney.

A cost optimum plant might have an output of 100MW using a collector 3.6km in diameter and a 950m high chimney. The problem is that the temperature rise isn't large and therefor the efficiecy is around 1%.
(source: Renewable Energy - Oxford, Godfrey Boyle)

Probably the best solar plants are parabolic trough concentration systems.
"A long row of parabolic mirrors concentrates sunlight on a tube filled with a heat transfer fluid (usually oil). As with the power tower, this heated oil is used to power a conventional steam turbine, or stored for nighttime use."

You can find a large one on google maps here.

Here is a pic of the LARGE mirrors.

It's a 160MW solar power plant, at peak times it has a 20% efficiency. There is a total of 500MW in that area. The best thing is that it can compete with fossil fuel electricity prices.

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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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