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OfflineLizard King
King Lizard

Registered: 10/04/99
Posts: 1,998
Loc: GA
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: ShoomGod
    #66750 - 11/25/99 12:00 AM (17 years, 19 days ago)

Thanx B.I.O.


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Anonymous

Re: ShoomGod
    #66751 - 11/25/99 04:14 AM (17 years, 18 days ago)

Im not the God but I can tell you what has made me start experimenting w/ agar.

1. Dirty spores that I have can germinate/ grow with contams and then I can cut a "clean" good growth part put in in another plate have it grow there, then innoculate grain etc
2. A cluster of elms I found wild, I can now clone and possibly fruit indoors.
3. Mad Scientist sensations I get out of amateur agar work

only a few I am sure there are more....



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: ShoomGod
    #66752 - 11/25/99 06:15 AM (17 years, 18 days ago)

Cloning: You take a healthy,good looking :wink: not to old mushroom, tear(don?t cut!) it apart lenghtways and cut a small (2x2 mm) chunk out from the middle of the cap or from the bottom and place it on an agarplate. Everything must be done with sterile instruments and under sterile conditions. In a few days you will have mycelium growing on the plate with just the same characteristics like the mushroom you cloned it frome.

M(Maltextract)
Y(Yeast)
A(Agar)

For one liter agar medium:

15-20 g agar agar
20 g maltextract
2 g nutritional yeast

[This message has been edited by Anno (edited November 25, 1999).]



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: ShoomGod
    #66753 - 11/25/99 06:18 AM (17 years, 18 days ago)

oops!

[This message has been edited by Anno (edited November 25, 1999).]



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Anonymous

Re: ShoomGod
    #66754 - 11/25/99 06:27 AM (17 years, 18 days ago)

Using agar is the best way to get a pure strain without contanimation.

------------------
Wer'e off to see the Wizard..because..because...because>>>>>>>(*)



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OfflineLizard King
King Lizard

Registered: 10/04/99
Posts: 1,998
Loc: GA
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: ShoomGod
    #66755 - 11/25/99 11:40 AM (17 years, 18 days ago)

Thanks for helping shroomies.
I think I see the benifits.
1) you can grow from an un-sterile spore print.
2)You can clone mushrooms(but why do you have to tear it apart instead of cutting, and what exactly are you cutting a 2x2mm piece of...the gills?
3)you can get pure strains using agar(this is where I don't understand, what exactly is a pure strain...two spores mating and no more than two, creating a pure strain?
I'm starting to understand, I just don't understand isolating strains, pure strains, and stabilizing strains. Is this all the same thing just named different?
Sorry if this is to much to answer I just don't quite get it. If someone has a link to some info on this subject please post it. I know everyone here is very helpful but I would like to read up on mushroom strains and genetics to better understand how the mushroom works.
Thanx again for all the help everyone.

The Lizard,



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OfflineB.I.O.
old hand
Registered: 05/27/99
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Re: ShoomGod
    #66756 - 11/25/99 11:48 AM (17 years, 18 days ago)

no lizard not from the gills ...from the white clean inside tissue....the size is not so important...just take a fresh shroom....we did that successfully with cubes,oysters and shitake...

good luck

BiO.



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OfflineLizard King
King Lizard

Registered: 10/04/99
Posts: 1,998
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Re: ShoomGod
    #66757 - 11/25/99 11:59 AM (17 years, 18 days ago)

Thanx B.I.O.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: ShoomGod
    #66759 - 11/25/99 01:32 PM (17 years, 18 days ago)

Tearing apart:You somehow got to get to the middle, uncontaminated part of the shroom. Now the surface of the shroom most likely bears contaminants. If you would cut the shroom apart even with a clean scalpel, the contaminats would make it to the spot, you want to take the tiny chunk from. Therefore tearing apart is prefeared.
2x2: It should state app. 2x2. The piece just has to have a reasonable size.


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Anonymous

Re: ShoomGod
    #66760 - 11/30/99 02:21 PM (17 years, 13 days ago)

Lizard King, others have answered all but your last question. I reduced the cost of the agar orginally because I considered moving from 20 to 15 grams of agar agar in the mix. I changed my mind after reading some more stuff, but I'm keeping the price at $10 anyway. I bearly break even at that point, but I don't care really. The mix I use for 1 liter of water is:

20g agar agar
20g malt sugar (light tan)
2g nutritional yeast
2g wheat flour (extra fine)

ShroomGod



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Offlinesutec
addict
Registered: 09/06/99
Posts: 301
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Re: ShoomGod
    #66761 - 11/30/99 03:06 PM (17 years, 13 days ago)

A few of the main reasons why agar is preferred is strain isolation, rapid colonization and reduction of contamination.

The first reason: strain isolation is a cool thing that I want to try sometime in the near future (I have all the equip, just need to get off my lazy butt and do it). What you do is make some plates of agar, then innoculate them with spores. Check the plates to see which one shows the best rhizomorphic (strandy) mycelial growth. Each plate will most likely show signs of sectoring (different parts of the plate growing in differnt ways (rhizomorphic (strandy) and tomentose (cottony), slow growth and fast growth) Cut a section from the best looking section (fastest growth and most strandy, strandy = better possibility of fruiting) and transfer to another agar plate. Let the culture grow a couple of days and then if that culture sectors again, take a chunk of mycelium from the most promising and repeat until no sectoring is apparent. You now have a pure strain of mycelium that has strong growth potential. You then use this mycelium as innoculant for standard teks.

This brings me to the next reason why people use agar: Rapid colonization.

When you innoculate agar and let the culture grow out you are essentially skipping a step in the traditional PF et al style of innoculating. In just about any (all?) TEKs, where you would normally add a spore solution (1-5ccs), you now substitute spores for a chunk of agar. Since the agar already has pre incubated spores, your jars should colonize in a matter of days or upto a week. If you always have some agar with good mycelium handy and you want to make some shrooms, you now only have to wait 2 week before you can expect your first flush, rather than a a month+.

This also helps reduce on contaminants. In a traditional setup you have to wait for the spores to incubate. While this is happening contaminants have a much better chance to take hold than the spores do, especially considering the amount of time incubation of spores takes. However if you use a pure mycelial strain from agar your mycelium will immediatly start to take charge and easily beats out contams. Since you isolated a robust and thriving strain of mycelium the odds are even better that you won't lose a jar to contams.

Hope this sheds some light as to why agar (even liquid mycelium is good, though strain isolation isn't an option, so you'll have to live with what you get...But nature does that all the time, so it's not paramount or even necessary to have a "pure" strain) is a superior technique (this is also why most (all?) major mushroom growing facilities use agar or some form of culturing, although it probably is agar in their mushroom production.

:P



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Offlinesutec
addict
Registered: 09/06/99
Posts: 301
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Re: ShoomGod
    #66762 - 11/30/99 03:09 PM (17 years, 13 days ago)

I almost forgot. If you are really interested in a good book on mushroom cultivation (all aspects), check out Paul Stamets book "The Mushroom Cultivator". It's a pretty good read and it's chaulk full of useful information that will help you get better results.


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Decriminalize:
NORML
DRCNet
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OfflinePsilowarrior
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Registered: 11/21/99
Posts: 195
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: ShoomGod
    #66763 - 11/30/99 03:30 PM (17 years, 13 days ago)

What is a pure strain. A pure strain is a mycellial culture of a single genotype. It's a lot like taking clones from a mother plant. The advantage of isolating a pure strain is that the characteristics are defined. All of the fruits produced from a pure strain will have the same genetic characteristics. The disadvantage is that pure strains lack a source of genetic variation and as a result will eventually undergo senescence, or genetic drift.


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Anonymous

Re: ShoomGod
    #66764 - 11/30/99 04:26 PM (17 years, 13 days ago)

I don't want to sound stupid but i couldn't find any good txt files that thuroughly described how to use agar and make agar plates and whatnot. is there anyone who could point one out.
thanks

------------------
***SyKoDelyK***



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OfflineLizard King
King Lizard

Registered: 10/04/99
Posts: 1,998
Loc: GA
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: ShoomGod
    #66765 - 11/30/99 06:24 PM (17 years, 13 days ago)

Thanks sutec, That was a textbook perfect explanation. Makes perfect sense. I have have prints of some wild Cubensis I found here in Georgia. I have some jars of the strain now, but I like the idea of isolating a strain and am going to attempt it. I just need to purchase some agar mix. I have petri plates from science class a few years ago and can make a glove box. All this talk about strain isolation is exciting. I'm tired of regular old PF jars. Its time to move and try other teks. Thanks for all the info everyone, you have enlightened me.


The Lizard,



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