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Demotriton
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Want to go to heaven? God can Help
#6674725 - 03/15/07 09:39 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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I used to grow mushrooms a year ago and posted on here. Now God has called me back here to finish what he started. Many people THINK they want to go to heaven. The problem is, they don't know what heaven is. The real truth is God gives us whatever we want when we leave this world. Problem is what WE want isn't the best thing for us. What GOD wants for us is the best thing for us.
Some of the choices we make on our own might make us happy for the short time we have left on this earth, but imagine living with our choices for an ETERNITY. Many things are fun for awhile but grow dull and boring later on.
The only way to truly be happy is complete surrender to God's will. Which brings another problem. What is God's will? God's will is for us to love him with all our heart, and to Love each other as we would ourselves.
God wants us to come to him and get to know and love him now more than ever before. He has worked countless miracles in my life and will in yours if you get to know the TRUE God.
God sent me here as his instrument to bring his word of TRUTH without any distortion. Everyone is looking for something, and that something is God, whether they know it or not. That's how God made us. Problem is so many people, including myself, have looked in the wrong places for him for far to long. Right now God is asking his children to come back to him one last time to receive his mercy.
God wishes to work in powerful ways these days, and I know signs & miracles will follow those who have faith.
Please respond and see what God will do!
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Sinbad
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6674754 - 03/15/07 09:43 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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What everyone is looking for is happiness. There is no need to escape anything. Happiness can be discovered right here, in the present.
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6674774 - 03/15/07 09:48 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Do the wrong places you speak of include psychedelics? I consider myself a follower of God as well, and I believe that psychedelics can help us become closer to Him by distancing us from the physical realm and assisting us in focusing on other things. What do you think?
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
Edited by Mr_Prickles (03/15/07 10:42 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6674782 - 03/15/07 09:50 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Everyone is looking for something, and that something is God, whether they know it or no
How do you know this? This is just your subjective view. Now it could be true or not. For you to come here and just say this God is real and you are here to proclaim him leaves me just a little bit unimpressed.
It all depends on what you mean by God I guess and I guess we would not be meaning the same thing. If you dropped this God word it would make things a little easier as far as knowing where you're really coming from. If I remember your other posts you seemed a little fundamentalist to me.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Wasteland
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6674814 - 03/15/07 09:57 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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I seek knowledge and understanding of the world.
Not an invisible being who likes to rain brimstone and tell people to kill and rape.
-------------------- The Mad Shroomer said: People are always promising the apocalypse. They never deliver.
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demiu5
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6674828 - 03/15/07 10:02 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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would you like to tie me up and start beating me with a bible?
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Wasteland]
#6674855 - 03/15/07 10:07 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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In the Hebrew scriptures (the Old Testament) there are plenty of references to God telling people to kill others and commit other such atrocities, but I believe that is either the result of original inaccuracies, errors in translation, or people claiming to be prophets/hear messages from God, when there was no way for anyone else to prove them wrong.
I think the Greek scriptures show God more as he truly is, and that Jesus was likely God manifest in human form. I think the Koran points to the same God as the Bible, but that is suffers from inaccuracies just as the scriptures do.
Plus, the canon of the Bible was selected by humans well after it was written, so some of the books may be less trustworthy than others, and there may be other texts out there (the gospel of Judas being the most recent example) that may be closer to the truth.
Not all Christians are Bible thumping stereotypical preacher types, those types of people make me sick and give Christianity a bad name. Christianity is simply about handing your life over to Christ, and you don't have to be a right-wing bigot to do so.
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
Edited by Mr_Prickles (03/15/07 10:10 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6674868 - 03/15/07 10:11 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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and that Jesus was likely God manifest in human form.
Why do you choose this part to be truth? Jesus may have been enlightened, been awake, but no more or less God than you or I.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6674882 - 03/15/07 10:14 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr_Prickles said: Christianity is simply about handing your life over to Christ
Simply? I think Christianity is a complex concept that exists in different forms to different individuals. I think what you are doing with this statement, on a subconscious level or not, is stating that your view on the matter is correct and these others are wrong.
Also, what does it mean to "hand your life over to Christ", exactly?
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6674884 - 03/15/07 10:15 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Why do you choose this part to be truth? Jesus may have been enlightened, been awake, but no more or less God than you or I.
That's true. He may have also been a liar or insane, but there's really no way for us to know. My primary reason for believing this is the overarching theme throughout the Bible that shows the need for and coming of a Messiah, and I think that if that Messiah has already come that Jesus was the most likely candidate.
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
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Wasteland
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6674888 - 03/15/07 10:15 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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The bible is a book, written by men and passed off as something more.
You claim that there is a purity to the tale of god that has been corrupted by man, I say it is fiction corrupted into divinity.
-------------------- The Mad Shroomer said: People are always promising the apocalypse. They never deliver.
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6674896 - 03/15/07 10:18 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Simply? I think Christianity is a complex concept that exists in different forms to different individuals. I think what you are doing with this statement, on a subconscious level or not, is stating that your view on the matter is correct and these others are wrong.
That's true, Christianity is a complex concept, and it is a lot of different things to different people. That's just my view of it, that to "be a Christian" means to follow Jesus' teachings and try to be like Him in your day to day life, and accept His death as your ticket into heaven. There's certainly more to Christianity than that, but that's what I see as the core concept.
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Wasteland]
#6674906 - 03/15/07 10:21 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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The bible is a book, written by men and passed off as something more.
You claim that there is a purity to the tale of god that has been corrupted by man, I say it is fiction corrupted into divinity.
That's a possibility, but I find it very unlikely that it is entirely fiction. There's more evidence for Jesus' existence than for that of any other human being of His time period (and for many centuries after that), but that doesn't mean that He was the son of God or that the rest of the Bible is true. I certainly don't believe that the entire Bible is to be taken literally, a lot of it is written as poetry and metaphor and shouldn't be seen as more than that.
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
Edited by Mr_Prickles (03/15/07 10:22 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6674909 - 03/15/07 10:21 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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and accept His death as your ticket into heaven.
Well good luck with all that.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6674924 - 03/15/07 10:24 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: and accept His death as your ticket into heaven.
Well good luck with all that.
That's what the Bible teaches, is it not? That doesn't mean that it's necessarily true, or that either of us have to believe it, but IF the Bible is true than it is clear on that point.
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6674940 - 03/15/07 10:27 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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You can believe in Spiderman for all I care.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6674978 - 03/15/07 10:36 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: You can believe in Spiderman for all I care.
I certainly could, and you could do the same. Why are you so hateful towards Christian ideas? Is it just Christianity, or is it all religion you despise? I don't think any organized religion has all their ideas completely in line, but why knock them for trying?
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6674997 - 03/15/07 10:40 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: The real truth is God gives us whatever we want when we leave this world. Problem is what WE want isn't the best thing for us. What GOD wants for us is the best thing for us.
Hmm. You assert a "real truth", but through what process can it be determined to actually be the "real truth" of the matter? I do not understand this.
Also, how do we know what "g*d" wants for us?
Quote:
Some of the choices we make on our own might make us happy for the short time we have left on this earth, but imagine living with our choices for an ETERNITY.
Um, we do live with our choices for an ETERNITY, or, at least, the amount of time that we exist. This choice in this moment as to how we will interact with and experience reality decides the rest of our life.
That is, I have imagined the scenario you propose, as I find it to be the nature of reality, and am not sure how this scenario supports your point. If we derive happiness from our activities and experiences right now, then that is a permanent thing. One could perhaps say eternal.
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The only way to truly be happy is complete surrender to God's will.
Ohhhh, okay.
Hhmm.
I will simply ask for substantiation of this. You are stating that there is only one path and that it is the path you are proposing for us. No other path can offer true happiness? How are you distinguishing from false happiness and true happiness, by the way? How do you determine the difference?
I feel that I should be confused by now because what you are saying is not making any sense - it isn't reasonable.
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Which brings another problem. What is God's will? God's will is for us to love him with all our heart, and to Love each other as we would ourselves.
Yes, that is another problem. What is "g*d's" will? You answer your own question right there - but let's ask this: How did you become aware of "g*d's" will, precisely? How could we possibly know "g*d's" will?
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God wants us to come to him and get to know and love him now more than ever before. He has worked countless miracles in my life and will in yours if you get to know the TRUE God.
This statement sounds familiar to "This fascinating commerative plate depicting Abraham Lincoln can be yours today for only $19.95! Quanities are limited so please act now.". Do you work on commision?
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God sent me here as his instrument to bring his word of TRUTH without any distortion.
I love it when "g*d" sends salesmen.
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Everyone is looking for something, and that something is God
Hey buddy. You do not know who I am. Perhaps you could refrain from telling me who I am and what I am looking for? Sort of presumptious of you, don't you think?
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Right now God is asking his children to come back to him one last time to receive his mercy.
No he isn't. You're asking us. There is a difference. Do you not discern that difference?
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God wishes to work in powerful ways these days, and I know signs & miracles will follow those who have faith.
Do you want to learn something about faith? Faith follows experience - not the other way around. Your preaching is not going to serve as grounds for faith in others, nor should it compel us down such a path.
Perhaps if you had shared with us your perspective on the experiences that hopefully are there as a base for your religious ideas we would have something to contemplate, but all we really have is this empty testimonial.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6675018 - 03/15/07 10:44 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr_Prickles said: That's true, Christianity is a complex concept, and it is a lot of different things to different people. That's just my view of it, that to "be a Christian" means to follow Jesus' teachings and try to be like Him in your day to day life, and accept His death as your ticket into heaven. There's certainly more to Christianity than that, but that's what I see as the core concept.
Quote:
fireworks_god said: Also, what does it mean to "hand your life over to Christ", exactly?
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6675019 - 03/15/07 10:44 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Why do you take that comment as hateful? I'm telling you to believe whatever you want and that's dandy with me. I do believe that believing in anything outside oneself as a ticket to salvation is unskillful, but it's not my business except as a topic for debate. My ideas on Christianity are dependent on whatever Christian I'm talking to. I like some and feel others are very unskillful. SoI don't knock them for trying. If they're trying that is. But let me say here that Christianity outside of Gnostic Christianity has a major flaw in my view. It's the notion that God condemns those who don't believe in him.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (03/15/07 10:45 PM)
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6675024 - 03/15/07 10:46 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr_Prickles said: I certainly could, and you could do the same. Why are you so hateful towards Christian ideas? Is it just Christianity, or is it all religion you despise? I don't think any organized religion has all their ideas completely in line, but why knock them for trying?
Why do you assume that he is hateful towards Christian ideas? Where did he "knock" them? I think you are overreacting to your own preconceived notion of what might be occuring. I see no evidence of hate or of "knocking".
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Wasteland
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6675031 - 03/15/07 10:47 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Also, what does it mean to "hand your life over to Christ", exactly?
It means, strap on that bomb, we gotta fight those muslim commie bastards!
-------------------- The Mad Shroomer said: People are always promising the apocalypse. They never deliver.
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SneezingPenis
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Wasteland]
#6675067 - 03/15/07 10:54 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
God wants
I have made it a rule in my life to stop giving anyone my attention after this is presented. Many of you should as well.
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6675307 - 03/15/07 11:55 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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What if I don't want to go to heaven? What if I prefer non-consciousness?
And what if I don't want "God?" Will He be cool with that?
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6675317 - 03/15/07 11:58 PM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
Quote:
God wants
I have made it a rule in my life to stop giving anyone my attention after this is presented. Many of you should as well.
I have to agree with this. Humans who claim to know what "God's" Will is for mankind should really think twice. You're not privy to divine knowledge-- no one knows what "God" wants for us (if indeed there is a "God").
Sure, it is possible that one may attain sublime knowledge via special revelation, yet I find it highly unlikely.
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6675339 - 03/16/07 12:03 AM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Why do you assume that he is hateful towards Christian ideas? Where did he "knock" them? I think you are overreacting to your own preconceived notion of what might be occuring. I see no evidence of hate or of "knocking".
I probably was overreacting, it wasn't really hateful but his posts seemed to be oozing sarcasm, especially since that's the general reaction given by a lot of people in today's society. Sarcasm can't really be detected over the internet, though, so I was basically shooting blind. I'm tired, I'll come back to this thread tomorrow when I'm not as irritable.
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6675349 - 03/16/07 12:06 AM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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Demotriton, I'm interested to hear your response to the discussion in this thread so far, from what I can tell all you've done is shamelessly plug God without any kind of reasoning. Any thoughts?
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6675892 - 03/16/07 06:18 AM (17 years, 8 days ago) |
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You got to remember man. If you are going to post here, prepare for your views to be picked apart by little woodpeckers who wont stop till the tree falls down.
--------------------
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6676323 - 03/16/07 10:25 AM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: You got to remember man. If you are going to post here, prepare for your views to be picked apart by little woodpeckers who wont stop till the tree falls down.
I'm used to it. I'd actually prefer for my views to be picked apart, criticism helps shape them, and I wouldn't want anyone to accept my views without examining them critically first.
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6676327 - 03/16/07 10:32 AM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr_Prickles said:
Quote:
Sinbad said: You got to remember man. If you are going to post here, prepare for your views to be picked apart by little woodpeckers who wont stop till the tree falls down.
I'm used to it. I'd actually prefer for my views to be picked apart, criticism helps shape them, and I wouldn't want anyone to accept my views without examining them critically first.
That a very good attitude to have. The not accepting without examination is the same as what Buddha said.
--------------------
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Lion
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6676332 - 03/16/07 10:35 AM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
Quote:
God wants
I have made it a rule in my life to stop giving anyone my attention after this is presented. Many of you should as well.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6676346 - 03/16/07 10:44 AM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr_Prickles said: Demotriton, I'm interested to hear your response to the discussion in this thread so far, from what I can tell all you've done is shamelessly plug God without any kind of reasoning. Any thoughts?
Unfortunately this is often the case with this kind of thing. It's called hit and run. This individual may think he's doing Gods work by trying to save our souls in this fasion and maybe he would have stuck around if he had gotten some support rather than questions. I doubt very much he can effectively debate any of this though.
If it seems that I am a little sarcastic at times it's just because I am. After you get used to me hopefully you can just laugh it off. God left me in an imperfect state.
(Kentucky)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6677107 - 03/16/07 02:35 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Unfortunately this is often the case with this kind of thing. It's called hit and run. This individual may think he's doing Gods work by trying to save our souls in this fasion and maybe he would have stuck around if he had gotten some support rather than questions. I doubt very much he can effectively debate any of this though.
If it seems that I am a little sarcastic at times it's just because I am. After you get used to me hopefully you can just laugh it off. God left me in an imperfect state.
(Kentucky)
Yeah it's cool, no hard feelings or anything. I grew up in church, and the prevalence of these "hit and run" tactics was one of my primary reason for abandoning the church in its current state. People need to realize that this type of "ministry" isn't very effective among people who can think for themselves, particularly in modern society where there are plenty of other options to consider.
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6677724 - 03/16/07 05:38 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Sorry I didn't get a chance to post on here till now. Before I answer I have just ONE question to ask everyone that posted. What is God's purpose for creating us.
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Lion
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6677750 - 03/16/07 05:47 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: Sorry I didn't get a chance to post on here till now. Before I answer I have just ONE question to ask everyone that posted. What is God's purpose for creating us.
He needed something to do to Pass the time?
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Lion]
#6677779 - 03/16/07 05:55 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Then once you find out what the best way to pass the time is, your a step closer to finding God.
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Lion
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6677806 - 03/16/07 06:06 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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something like that!
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6677812 - 03/16/07 06:07 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: Sorry I didn't get a chance to post on here till now. Before I answer I have just ONE question to ask everyone that posted. What is God's purpose for creating us.
Please, you haven't even defined your terms. I'm not certain how anyone could answer that question in a reasonable manner as it is simply speculation on some abstract concept that means something different for everyone and is not found apparent in reality itself.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6677861 - 03/16/07 06:28 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: Sorry I didn't get a chance to post on here till now. Before I answer I have just ONE question to ask everyone that posted. What is God's purpose for creating us.
The same purpose "God" created a bug. Not that I believe your god created anything.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6677905 - 03/16/07 06:46 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Or the same purpose for which God created the tapeworm.
I do not understand where this "beauty" and "harmony" are supposed to be found. Throughout the animal kingdom, animals ruthlessly prey upon each other. Most of them are either cruelly killed by other animals or slowly die of hunger. For my part, I am unable to see any great beauty or harmony in the tapeworm. Let it not be said that this creature is sent as a punishment for our sins, for it is more prevalent among animals than among humans. -- Bertrand Russel
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Diploid]
#6677938 - 03/16/07 06:56 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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For LOVE! Love brings out the BEST in all of us, & God is LOVE. He's our REAL father! He's the BEST there is! Better than anything we could ever come up with on our own. If only we believed more in what he is telling us & less than what the world is telling us. What he is telling us is that he LOVES us, will forgive us for anything we have done no matter how bad. Because thats how good he is. All we have to do is believe that he is the way he really is which is a kind, loving & merciful God. It is the evil one that tricks us into thinking otherwise.
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GnosticWarrior
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6678017 - 03/16/07 07:25 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Everyone is looking for something, and that something is God, whether they know it or no
How do you know this? This is just your subjective view. Now it could be true or not. For you to come here and just say this God is real and you are here to proclaim him leaves me just a little bit unimpressed.
It all depends on what you mean by God I guess and I guess we would not be meaning the same thing. If you dropped this God word it would make things a little easier as far as knowing where you're really coming from. If I remember your other posts you seemed a little fundamentalist to me.
I view Taoism (Yin&Yang) as a true universal law. So why wouldn't God have two opposing sides? One static, intellect, cannot take phyical form. The other changing, emotional, can take physical form.
Then replace the word God with Love.
Quote:
Demotriton said: Sorry I didn't get a chance to post on here till now. Before I answer I have just ONE question to ask everyone that posted. What is God's purpose for creating us.
God (Love) is static, is intellect, God(Love) set's the rules that the universe is governed by. Scientist, just helped to explain what these rules are by conducting systematic trial and error experiments. However, God(Love)cannot take a physical form. Our souls collectively make up the emotional, side of God (Love). We are God (Love) in physical form, here to experience and report our knowledge back to the intellectual side of God (Love).
Sorry, did not read your latest post before I typed this.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: GnosticWarrior]
#6678046 - 03/16/07 07:35 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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I understand where you are coming from but,
God wants people to see him & love him as a person. He doesn't want people to think of him as an idea, thing, or someone we don't have access to. That's why he sent his Son Jesus. To show us he CAN take physical form among us, so that we can LOVE him. He had to become someone we could understand so that we can LOVE him. Jesus came as a representative of Our Father in heaven. It is through the life & teachings of Jesus that we can KNOW and have access to our Father. Just looke at what he did for US on the cross! Now THATS Love.
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GnosticWarrior
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6678117 - 03/16/07 08:05 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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I think both of our hearts are in the right place and our minds have distinguished that particular feeling, sensations in our bodies when you experience love. And I think this is due to shrooms too!
However, This thing about Jesus being the only Physcial manifestation of God I don't believe. I was raised Buddhist, don't know if you were raised Christian. Not saying that anything is wrong. But in my experience those who were raised believing in the Bible and the Dogma that comes about it have a hard time seeing eye to eye with me. From what I read on other threads and boards, the eastern cultures did not have a problem with Taoism, Buddhism, and Shinto beleifs co-existing together. I'm just saying we weren't persuaded or forced through fear to believe one way or the other.
But, on the other hand most of my intellectual beliefs in God where shaped by the teachings of Sylvia Browne so that takes off some creditability from me. I believe that I am just as much a part of God and his son as Jesus was. He was indeed a role model who led by example. The only difference Jesus and I might have, is our knowledge of God, our confidence in ourselves and God, and so he made better choices than I do.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6678213 - 03/16/07 08:34 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Hey buddy.
You haven't answered any of my questions that I have asked you in this thread, yet you continue to go on and on with more of your perspective.
This is a discussion-orientated forum - we are all interested in discussing each others point of view, not just yours. Did you miss my questions or are you avoiding them?
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6678215 - 03/16/07 08:34 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: I used to grow mushrooms a year ago and posted on here. Now God has called me back here to finish what he started. Many people THINK they want to go to heaven. The problem is, they don't know what heaven is. The real truth is God gives us whatever we want when we leave this world. Problem is what WE want isn't the best thing for us. What GOD wants for us is the best thing for us.
Some of the choices we make on our own might make us happy for the short time we have left on this earth, but imagine living with our choices for an ETERNITY. Many things are fun for awhile but grow dull and boring later on.
The only way to truly be happy is complete surrender to God's will. Which brings another problem. What is God's will? God's will is for us to love him with all our heart, and to Love each other as we would ourselves.
God wants us to come to him and get to know and love him now more than ever before. He has worked countless miracles in my life and will in yours if you get to know the TRUE God.
God sent me here as his instrument to bring his word of TRUTH without any distortion. Everyone is looking for something, and that something is God, whether they know it or not. That's how God made us. Problem is so many people, including myself, have looked in the wrong places for him for far to long. Right now God is asking his children to come back to him one last time to receive his mercy.
God wishes to work in powerful ways these days, and I know signs & miracles will follow those who have faith.
Please respond and see what God will do!
Based on your posting it sounds like you are saying God loves every single person who ever lived without exception. I have a few questions.
Does God love those He sends to hell? What separates those who are sent to hell vs. those who are saved? Is salvation a conditional proposition? Did Jesus atone for those who spend an eternity in hell? Millions have lived and died and never even heard anything about Jesus ever, what about them? Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6678220 - 03/16/07 08:35 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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God this is turning into a real can of worms here.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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leery11
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6678446 - 03/16/07 09:40 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said:
Please respond and see what God will do!
Absolutely. "Thy will be done."
I am not sure how much I could function with complete heaven in my life, rather it would be best in gradients, but I would definitely love to have more of the love I am having.... humans to resonate it with, and the eyes to take the opportunities as they come, and most certainly removing all doubts......
I like what I am seeing so far. The ability to feel connected enough to stop aside and weep like a widow.... but if I do weep, who will STAND INSIDE MY LOVE ? Maybe I have one...... I kind of want to send her back, because all MY will is up on a very high and holy goal, and it is confounding to have someone trying to pull me into her reality.....
so who do you say the true God is... when people say that they either say it because they don't like dogma at all, or they think a religion is absolutely right.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6678448 - 03/16/07 09:40 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Does God love those He sends to hell? -first of all God sends NO ONE to hell. People choose hell because it appears more desirable to them than heaven. Some people think they will be more happy without God, which is what hell is, life without God.
What separates those who are sent to hell vs. those who are saved? -Those that go to hell would rather live without God. Those saved can't live without God.
Is salvation a conditional proposition? -God wants to save us, but we need to choose to come to HIM to be saved. By coming to him, we desire less of what we are and desire more of what he is, and ALLOW him to transform us, to become more like him.
Did Jesus atone for those who spend an eternity in hell? -Yes, they just refused his mercy
Millions have lived and died and never even heard anything about Jesus ever, what about them? -The name of Jesus is about a God who LOVES & forgives his children & will do anything for them so long as we TRUST him, and allow him to act. If they believe God is like this, they believe in the TRUE God revealed by Christ Jesus
Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? -Yes
You assert a "real truth", but through what process can it be determined to actually be the "real truth" of the matter? I do not understand this. -some people are mislead into believing something that isn't true
Also, how do we know what "g*d" wants for us? -by asking him
I will simply ask for substantiation of this. You are stating that there is only one path and that it is the path you are proposing for us. No other path can offer true happiness? -Many paths lead to God, salvation thru Christ Jesus is the easiest way as it is a direct path to God
How are you distinguishing from false happiness and true happiness, by the way? -false happiness only lasts awhile, true happiness lasts forever How do you determine the difference? -True happiness can only be found in God. We must find God to find true happiness. To Find God we must seek him for what he truly is, which is explained by Christ Jesus. Jesus is the way to Heaven, the way to our Father.
Yes, that is another problem. What is "g*d's" will? -God's will is for us to Love him with all our heart & to Love each other You answer your own question right there - but let's ask this: How did you become aware of "g*d's" will, precisely? -The bible tells us God's will How could we possibly know "g*d's" will? -By reading his word
Do you work on commission? I work for the Glory of God
Hey buddy. You do not know who I am. Perhaps you could refrain from telling me who I am and what I am looking for? Sort of presumptuous of you, don't you think? -God knows who we all are
No he isn't. You're asking us. There is a difference. Do you not discern that difference? -He's asking me to ask you, God works through people
Do you want to learn something about faith? Faith follows experience - not the other way around. Your preaching is not going to serve as grounds for faith in others, nor should it compel us down such a path. -God gives faith to those who seek it from him. Ask God sincerely for faith in what I am saying is true & he will give to you, you may have to ask him many times though, be patient he always responds to those who ask him, just be persistent.
so who do you say the true God is... when people say that they either say it because they don't like dogma at all, or they think a religion is absolutely right. -I say God is who is because I am in a relationship with him everyday. He speaks to me & I to him. He tells me who he is and the bible verifies what he is telling me is true. As his word cannot condradict the bible.
Edited by Demotriton (03/16/07 09:45 PM)
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Sinbad
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6678507 - 03/16/07 10:03 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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I'm usually a very happy person, and have not accepted God at all. I'm certainly not in hell. In fact i consider the whole god concept to be something erroneous that was ingrained in the human mind since the spawning of mankind on this planet.
The moment of doubt that Jesus had on the cross seems to me like what alcoholics refer to as a moment of painful clarity. Submitting blindly and blissing out on the God concept can be mighty comforting and pleasurable, but usually leaves little room for clear awareness and insight IMO.
True happiness can never come from outside source, but is discovered as inherent at the deepest levels of our living experience.
You said that you don't mind having your views challenged, so please don't be offended or angered by my post. If you truly feel you have found your path then i rejoice for you, and am happy that you have found what it is that you need.
--------------------
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6678558 - 03/16/07 10:16 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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True happiness can never come from outside source, but is discovered as inherent at the deepest levels of our living experience
This is true, I being a Christian have discovered the realization of Christ Jesus living inside me, and God our father living within him. My happiness comes from God living within me. -God wants us to see his Love within us, as coming from him, and not ourselves. HE created us to LOVE him, not view his love as inner peace for us to enjoy all for ourselves or those around us.
He wants us to Love HIM.
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6678683 - 03/16/07 10:58 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Reply - Since we both agree the Bible is the Word of God at least we have a common ground for doctrine.
Q.Does God love those He sends to hell? A.-first of all God sends NO ONE to hell. People choose hell because it appears more desirable to them than heaven. Some people think they will be more happy without God, which is what hell is, life without God.
Reply - If God loved someone He would love them and not send them to hell. Why would God, who knows all events, see millions not choosing Him, being headed for hell, and yet He creates them knowing their end? Why not just not allow them to come into existence in the first place? Scripture asserts all events are ordained by God to come to pass, and nothing happens by chance. God does not merely see future possible events, but actually ordains all events according to His own will.
Q.What separates those who are sent to hell vs. those who are saved? A.-Those that go to hell would rather live without God. Those saved can't live without God.
Reply - Christ's atoning work and righteousness is what separates the lost from the damned. Nothing sinners do can be pleasing to God. But despite this, God has chosen a people to be His, and had Christ atone for them. It is all a free gift from above, for those He has chosen.
Q.Is salvation a conditional proposition? A.-God wants to save us, but we need to choose to come to HIM to be saved. By coming to him, we desire less of what we are and desire more of what he is, and ALLOW him to transform us, to become more like him.
Reply - Your God is not in scripture. God is not getting frustrated by men who won't come to Him. Each and every one for whom God intends to save will be saved, since He has ordained it to be. Your scheme is saying the men have an inherent ability to be pleasing to God (ex. allowing to be transformed), and this meritorious action combined with grace brings someone into salvation. You have reason to boast, your action of acceptance is what separates you from a lost person. Notice how Christ's atonement alone ceases to be the ground of salvation, but personal merit plus Christ's atonement is the ground. You are ignorant of God's righteousness which demands perfection. Works of sinners CAN NOT enter into salvation in any way shape or form. To believe otherwise is to deny the gospel entirely.
Man is dead in sin, and is incapable, in his own power, or of his own will, to do ANYTHING pleasing to God. It is God who must do everything, start to finish for the sinner.
Q.Did Jesus atone for those who spend an eternity in hell? A.-Yes, they just refused his mercy
Reply - If a person's sin is atoned for then the person is justified. How can God exact double punishment for the same sin (once on Christ, and once on the sinner)? Mercy is given despite what a person does not because what a person does, it is the difference between salvation by works vs. salvation by grace. Your "gospel" is salvation by works.
Q.Millions have lived and died and never even heard anything about Jesus ever, what about them? A.-The name of Jesus is about a God who LOVES & forgives his children & will do anything for them so long as we TRUST him, and allow him to act. If they believe God is like this, they believe in the TRUE God revealed by Christ Jesus
Reply - Scripture gives no example of this. The gospel MUST be preached and believed with power of the Spirit applying it in order for conversion to happen. It is the means by which salvation happens.
Q.I will simply ask for substantiation of this. You are stating that there is only one path and that it is the path you are proposing for us. No other path can offer true happiness? A.-Many paths lead to God, salvation thru Christ Jesus is the easiest way as it is a direct path to God
Reply - Scripture us VERY clear on this, there is only ONE narrow path, Jesus Christ.
The doctrines you are declaring are opposed to the true gospel.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6678736 - 03/16/07 11:19 PM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: Sorry I didn't get a chance to post on here till now. Before I answer I have just ONE question to ask everyone that posted. What is God's purpose for creating us.
Dude, before you proceed, stop and check your presumption at the Presumption Desk. Firstly, you seem to be assuming that YOU are the only Christian on this forum. Secondly, you are probably dismissing anyone else who claims to be a Christian here, because after all, what kind of Christian would hang around with all these Pagans and sorcerers (inasmuch as Pharmakeia means both drugs and sorcery)? Meanwhile, your model of being a Christian derives chiefly from the command to spread the Gospel and hence you have an evangelical bent.
Clue: Many people in this world live according to "The Way," whether they call themselves Christians or not. The first Christians didn't call themselves Christians - they were Jews (for the most part) who called themselves followers of "The Way." The Way had not yet become a cult of Jesus! Jesus/Iesus/Issa/Y'shua taught/manifested/demonstrated/epitomized The Way to such an extent that the saying was later written about Him that "I am the way, the truth and the life...." Grammatically speaking, saying 'I AM IS the way...,' would have better preserved the Reality because people would have been more likely to understand The Way as The Way of Being that it is intended to be rather than absurdly believing that one has to emulate the behaviors of a 1st century Judean peasant. "I AM" was the Name of Deity revealed to Moses from the OT writings. Being in The Way, is Being in the Logos and Being motivated by the Logos. It is "being in Christ" which a state of Being - a Whole or Holy condition of attunement to Reality that is not limited by one's egocentric concerns of mind and body.
By this understanding, Chinese Taoists are living in The Way (since Tao means The Way), but Buddhists also have their terms for the condition, as do Muslims in their true 'submission' to God (Islam means submission). Jews have their terms for it and so do others. 'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet' (as it is still a rose, regardless of what language it is called by). Why then do evangelical Christians or fundamentalist Christians wrongly believe that it is a number of mental contructs (doctrines) that makes a Christian a Christian, and not their state of Being in The Way? If members of every faith saw the Truth in this Way, there would be no religious wars. A Christian is a Universal Human in my understanding, not a robot brainwashed by the invented doctrines of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers.
Nobody knows what the 'teleology' (purpose) is for the cosmos, or for humankind's place in it. Any assertion to the contrary is absurd. The Bible has lots of elements in it, including spiritual insight, but also includes heinous crimes from incest to genocide. It is a collection of midrash, metaphor, mythology and metaphysics, but it was all penned by the hands of men (and women in Deutero-Isaiah!). There is historical and geographical error, there is blatent plagerism and obvious contradiction. If one really wants to absolutize a book, then one becomes a Muslim.
Are you prepared to throw doctrine off like a coat on a hot day in the Sun and simply bask in the Sun's Light? It's the Light that is pre-eminently Real, not the intellectual description of it.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Mr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6678937 - 03/17/07 12:38 AM (17 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
\You said that you don't mind having your views challenged, so please don't be offended or angered by my post. If you truly feel you have found your path then i rejoice for you, and am happy that you have found what it is that you need.
I said I don't mind having my views challenged, but I don't think he did. Either way I like where this thread has been and is going, hopefully neither he nor anyone else will get offended and start a flame war like what happens in 90% of these type of posts that I've seen. So far we've all played nicely!
-------------------- Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.
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Sinbad
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6679417 - 03/17/07 07:14 AM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: True happiness can never come from outside source, but is discovered as inherent at the deepest levels of our living experience
This is true, I being a Christian have discovered the realization of Christ Jesus living inside me, and God our father living within him. My happiness comes from God living within me. -God wants us to see his Love within us, as coming from him, and not ourselves. HE created us to LOVE him, not view his love as inner peace for us to enjoy all for ourselves or those around us.
He wants us to Love HIM.
I don't see why God would want us to love 'him'. For me, love is just the sincere wish for others to be happy. If God is like an unhappy child that craves love and attention, then that does'nt seem like a very enlightened deity. Id love him all the same though, since i sincerely wish for everyone who is suffering to find true peace and happiness. But loving a seemingly imaginary friend for grownups, just becuase some book that was written by human beings says so seems a little naive.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6680328 - 03/17/07 02:06 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Reply - If God loved someone He would love them and not send them to hell. Why would God, who knows all events, see millions not choosing Him, being headed for hell, and yet He creates them knowing their end? Why not just not allow them to come into existence in the first place? Scripture asserts all events are ordained by God to come to pass, and nothing happens by chance. God does not merely see future possible events, but actually ordains all events according to His own will.
Love cannot exist without freedom of choice. I will tell you a secret, when someone chooses Hell, they separate themselves from God, since God is all that exists, they no longer exist, if they don't exist than their existence in the first place was an illusion, it was if they never existed, God does create everything from nothing, some nothing manifests into something, some nothing stays nothing, so it was never created, it only appeared to exist to those that exist. Those that exist are joined to the True God by faith. Jesus came so that we might know who the true God is.
Reply - Your God is not in scripture. God is not getting frustrated by men who won't come to Him. I NEVER said God gets frustrated. Although I admit I sometimes get frustrated trying to speak God's truth to unbelievers. For that I repent. I am NO better than anyone here, I do my best to allow God's words to come through me.
Each and every one for whom God intends to save will be saved, since He has ordained it to be. Your scheme is saying the men have an inherent ability to be pleasing to God (ex. allowing to be transformed), and this meritorious action combined with grace brings someone into salvation.
For one thing this has nothing to do with me, I make mistakes trying to proclaim God's word, but the fact I make mistakes has nothing to do with the TRUTH that JESUS is our ONLY means of salvation. All who have faith in JESUS will be saved, if you want to be saved come to JESUS, repent of your sins, and ask him to enter your life, do this every day until he comes & you will be saved.
You have reason to boast, your action of acceptance is what separates you from a lost person.
I have no reason to boast of myself only what JESUS has done for me.
Notice how Christ's atonement alone ceases to be the ground of salvation, but personal merit plus Christ's atonement is the ground. You are ignorant of God's righteousness which demands perfection. Works of sinners CAN NOT enter into salvation in any way shape or form. To believe otherwise is to deny the gospel entirely.
Romans 3:23 For ALL have sinned & fall short of the Glory of God. What personal merit could we possibly have? when it is impossible for men to be saved without God. Together with God we can be saved, but first we must deny our own works, and accept God's works into our life.
Reply - If a person's sin is atoned for then the person is justified. How can God exact double punishment for the same sin (once on Christ, and once on the sinner)? Mercy is given despite what a person does not because what a person does, it is the difference between salvation by works vs. salvation by grace. Your "gospel" is salvation by works.
James 2:18 Nevertheless a certain one will say "you have faith & I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, & I will show you my FAITH BY MY WORKS." -good works is a SIGN of faith
The doctrines you are declaring are opposed to the true gospel.
What exactly are you trying to do my brother? Are your intentions to PROVE me wrong & you right? or to help others find salvation.? I posted here to bring the truth of salvation to others, if only we would care more about others salvation rather than trying to say I'm right your wrong, it looks to me like we are saying the same truths but lets try & match our intentions with God's and not our own.
Dude, before you proceed, stop and check your presumption at the Presumption Desk. Firstly, you seem to be assuming that YOU are the only Christian on this forum. Secondly, you....
Something I should testify is, God often speaks to me when I read the bible, showing me the meaning he wants me to get out of scripture, he has showed me how he creates out of nothing, he has told me his will and much of his plan for salvation. Last night after I posted on here, he revealed himself to me like he never has before, he says there isn't enough time for conversion just by me speaking his word, he wants to work miracles so that you may believe that JESUS! JESUS! JESUS is THE SON OF GOD. ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN ANYONE EVER HAVE SALVATION. The explanation of this is FAR to complicated for our mortal minds to understand, he has shown me things which can not be expressed in any words here on earth. He has SHOWN me things which would bring the PROUDEST to shame. PLEASE I want all of you to be brought into existence. LOVE JESUS come to JESUS, can it be any more simple than that? Who knows more us or God? Please TRUST God and not yourselves. I speak for God, HE asked me to come on here and speak the truth he spoke to me. this was HIS idea, not mine. You should be more focused on JESUS which is where the real truth is coming from, instead of focusing on disproving his servants. The world as we know it WILL undergo a radical transformation in a VERY short period of time. We do not have time to dispute over the truth. Please turn to JESUS, REPENT, all of us are sinners, including myself, turn to JESUS, I am proclaiming HIS name, HIS works, forget about me, listen to JESUS. The only reason JESUS sent me here to speak his name, is because many here do not believe in him, so he sent me as to try and bring you to him. Accept JESUS as your savior and you WILL understand what JESUS is trying to say through me.
I may not be the only christian here, but I belong to JESUS and not to myself.
Edited by Demotriton (03/17/07 02:25 PM)
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6680647 - 03/17/07 03:37 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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fivepointer - If God loved someone He would love them and not send them to hell. Why would God, who knows all events, see millions not choosing Him, being headed for hell, and yet He creates them knowing their end? Why not just not allow them to come into existence in the first place? Scripture asserts all events are ordained by God to come to pass, and nothing happens by chance. God does not merely see future possible events, but actually ordains all events according to His own will.
Demotriton - Love cannot exist without freedom of choice. I will tell you a secret, when someone chooses Hell, they separate themselves from God, since God is all that exists, they no longer exist, if they don't exist than their existence in the first place was an illusion, it was if they never existed, God does create everything from nothing, some nothing manifests into something, some nothing stays nothing, so it was never created, it only appeared to exist to those that exist. Those that exist are joined to the True God by faith. Jesus came so that we might know who the true God is.
fivepointer reply - Thankfully God changes the hearts of Fallen men and saves them. The notion of absolute free will is an old heresy called Pelagianism. Fallen man has no freedom of choice, his will is bound by Satan, and his mind blind to spiritual truth. You doctrine denies original sin and the Fall and its effects on man. Men are already born condemned and separated, they do not "choose" this, this is the state they are in due to original sin. No choice is required, man is born spiritually dead. Do you believe that the unconverted will spend an eternity under God's wrath, or that they cease to exist?
fivepointer - Each and every one for whom God intends to save will be saved, since He has ordained it to be. Your scheme is saying the men have an inherent ability to be pleasing to God (ex. allowing to be transformed), and this meritorious action combined with grace brings someone into salvation.
Demotriton - For one thing this has nothing to do with me, I make mistakes trying to proclaim God's word, but the fact I make mistakes has nothing to do with the TRUTH that JESUS is our ONLY means of salvation. All who have faith in JESUS will be saved, if you want to be saved come to JESUS, repent of your sins, and ask him to enter your life, do this every day until he comes & you will be saved.
fivepointer reply - Faith in which "Jesus"? Many abound today. The Arminian one? the Morman one? the Roman Catholic one? The Gnostic one? All describe a different "Jesus" and God. You say one has to "come to JESUS, repent of your sins, and ask him to enter your life, do this every day until he comes", isn't this salvation by your own efforts? Isn't salvation about belief of the gospel, which is by the imputed righteousness of Christ, apart from personal efforts?
fivepointer - You have reason to boast, your action of acceptance is what separates you from a lost person.
Demotriton - I have no reason to boast of myself only what JESUS has done for me.
fivepointer reply - But you believe the reason that Jesus did something for you was that you met the conditions required. Only those who come with nothing get saved, not those who can meet conditions.
fivepointer - Notice how Christ's atonement alone ceases to be the ground of salvation, but personal merit plus Christ's atonement is the ground. You are ignorant of God's righteousness which demands perfection. Works of sinners CAN NOT enter into salvation in any way shape or form. To believe otherwise is to deny the gospel entirely.
Demotriton - Romans 3:23 For ALL have sinned & fall short of the Glory of God. What personal merit could we possibly have? when it is impossible for men to be saved without God. Together with God we can be saved, but first we must deny our own works, and accept God's works into our life.
fivepointer reply - You say "Together with God" we can be saved. This is the scheme of cooperative salvation, which is denial of salvation by grace, and a denial of the gospel.
fivepointer - If a person's sin is atoned for then the person is justified. How can God exact double punishment for the same sin (once on Christ, and once on the sinner)? Mercy is given despite what a person does not because what a person does, it is the difference between salvation by works vs. salvation by grace. Your "gospel" is salvation by works.
Demotriton - James 2:18 Nevertheless a certain one will say "you have faith & I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, & I will show you my FAITH BY MY WORKS." -good works is a SIGN of faith
fivepointer reply - True, good works are an evidence of salvation. But the faith itself also is an evidence, NOT A CAUSE, of salvation. The cause is the grace of God.
The doctrines you are declaring are opposed to the true gospel.
Demotriton - What exactly are you trying to do my brother? Are your intentions to PROVE me wrong & you right? or to help others find salvation.? I posted here to bring the truth of salvation to others, if only we would care more about others salvation rather than trying to say I'm right your wrong, it looks to me like we are saying the same truths but lets try & match our intentions with God's and not our own.
fivepointer reply - I am saying your "Jesus" is different from the one I believe in. The doctrines you are bringing are contrary to the true gospel.
Another poster - Dude, before you proceed, stop and check your presumption at the Presumption Desk. Firstly, you seem to be assuming that YOU are the only Christian on this forum. Secondly, you....
Demotriton - Something I should testify is, God often speaks to me when I read the bible, showing me the meaning he wants me to get out of scripture, he has showed me how he creates out of nothing, he has told me his will and much of his plan for salvation. Last night after I posted on here, he revealed himself to me like he never has before, he says there isn't enough time for conversion just by me speaking his word, he wants to work miracles so that you may believe that JESUS! JESUS! JESUS is THE SON OF GOD. ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN ANYONE EVER HAVE SALVATION. The explanation of this is FAR to complicated for our mortal minds to understand, he has shown me things which can not be expressed in any words here on earth. He has SHOWN me things which would bring the PROUDEST to shame. PLEASE I want all of you to be brought into existence. LOVE JESUS come to JESUS, can it be any more simple than that? Who knows more us or God? Please TRUST God and not yourselves. I speak for God, HE asked me to come on here and speak the truth he spoke to me. this was HIS idea, not mine. You should be more focused on JESUS which is where the real truth is coming from, instead of focusing on disproving his servants. The world as we know it WILL undergo a radical transformation in a VERY short period of time. We do not have time to dispute over the truth. Please turn to JESUS, REPENT, all of us are sinners, including myself, turn to JESUS, I am proclaiming HIS name, HIS works, forget about me, listen to JESUS. The only reason JESUS sent me here to speak his name, is because many here do not believe in him, so he sent me as to try and bring you to him. Accept JESUS as your savior and you WILL understand what JESUS is trying to say through me.
I may not be the only christian here, but I belong to JESUS and not to myself.
fivepointer reply - You say "ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN ANYONE EVER HAVE SALVATION", yet you stated earlier that there are many paths to God, so which is it? You say God speaks to you, how does this happen, do you hear a voice? If you can't show from the scriptures a doctrine, then how do I know what you are saying is true? How do I know that "world as we know it WILL undergo a radical transformation in a VERY short period of time"? This may just be your imagination you have no scripture to back it up.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6681283 - 03/17/07 06:37 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Existing with God is eternal life (existence) Living without God is eternal death (nonexistence) example:
Life without God I don't remember existing <-birth----I exist---death-> I forgot I existed Did I exist?
Life with God I don't remember existing <-birth----I exist--------> I continue to exist after I leave the earth and remember existing on earth
I do exist
Us ASKING Jesus to come into our lives is all the effort we put forth, it is Christ Jesus that does the saving, not us.
Jesus did something for me, because, I repented of my ways, and accepted his ways
I meant "Together with God" we can be saved as we need to be in a RELATIONSHIP with God. This is a daily process, talking to him, getting to know him, sharing our feelings with him. The more we give ourselves to him, he gives disproportionately more of him to us.
fivepointer reply - I am saying your "Jesus" is different from the one I believe in. The doctrines you are bringing are contrary to the true gospel.
Do you have the spirit of Christ Jesus within you fivepointer? Do you not know that it is Christ Jesus that speaks through me? Why do you doubt my love? Do you want it?
fivepointer reply - You say "ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN ANYONE EVER HAVE SALVATION", yet you stated earlier that there are many paths to God, so which is it? You say God speaks to you, how does this happen, do you hear a voice? If you can't show from the scriptures a doctrine, then how do I know what you are saying is true? How do I know that "world as we know it WILL undergo a radical transformation in a VERY short period of time"? This may just be your imagination you have no scripture to back it up.
Let me tell you a story. When I was baptized by the Holy Spirit I was praying to "God" Over the past year many things have happened, that have LEAD me closer to Jesus. Twice in the adoration chapel while praying Jesus came out of the Eucharist and gave me a hug, I couldn't see him with my eyes but I saw him with my heart. I saw God the father within him. He showed me God the father at other times in a big way, but I had to look through Jesus in order to see the father. I seeked the truth & found God, when I found God he lead me to his son Jesus, when I found Jesus, I found salvation.
SALVATION comes through Christ Jesus. He is the gateway to Heaven that God left on this earth for us to find. Find Jesus and you find heaven, even hear on earth.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681291 - 03/17/07 06:38 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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By the way I know you who are being saved are reading this even though you are not posting.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681299 - 03/17/07 06:41 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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That's what you think. I'm afraid I've already gotten to them.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6681327 - 03/17/07 06:50 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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The Glory of God shall be know through out all the earth.
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681333 - 03/17/07 06:52 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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I appreciate your help son.
Oh and it's be known, not be know.;)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (03/17/07 06:53 PM)
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681351 - 03/17/07 07:02 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Scripture does not say hell is simply non-existence. You have said you believe the Bible is the Word of God. If you really believe the Bible you would know hell is not non-existence.
You have said: "ASKING Jesus to come into our lives is all the effort we put forth" "Jesus did something for me, because, I repented of my ways, and accepted his ways"
You have salvation by works. You did X.Y or Z (repented and accepted) and because you met the conditions Jesus did something for you. I hope you are shown the magnitude of this error.
The Spirit speaks through those who bring the true gospel and the doctrine you are bringing is opposed to the gospel, so the Spirit is not speaking through you.
You claim "while praying Jesus came out of the Eucharist". The Eucharist? Are you a Roman Catholic? Do you believe in transubstantiation and the Mass? If you believe these things then you are dead in your sins.
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6681380 - 03/17/07 07:15 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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You tell em pointy.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6681454 - 03/17/07 07:45 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Damn straight, fivepointer is my favorite bad-ass Christian around here.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Silversoul
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6681467 - 03/17/07 07:51 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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It's entertaining watching two fundamentalists ripping each other apart over the other's subtle but damnable heresies. But then, it's not an even match in this case.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Silversoul]
#6681472 - 03/17/07 07:53 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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I think Sam Walton has more of a mythical aura around him than the avatar of Jesus. He's like some kind of God or something.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6681477 - 03/17/07 07:55 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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"Why do you attack my son? Is it his fault that he loves you and wishes you salvation? Is not my greatest commandment to Love one another? Why then do you treat him so?"
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681479 - 03/17/07 07:55 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: By the way I know you who are being saved are reading this even though you are not posting.
Why, do you have access to a list of all IP addresses that are viewing this thread? Are you tracking them down and observing their behavior in order to determine whether or not these people are being saved? Or are you simply affirming a state of knowing when no such state actually exists?
It isn't beneficial to delude oneself by assuming reality exists in a certain manner when one simply could not know.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6681486 - 03/17/07 07:58 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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I have absolutly no authority of my own. I am only doing what God is telling me to do.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681502 - 03/17/07 08:01 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: I have absolutly no authority of my own. I am only doing what God is telling me to do.
You are starting to sound like someone who is simply trying to get a reaction from people at a philosophy and spirituality forum. Someone who took no responsibility for oneself usually leads a destructive lifestyle. I'm thinking you are simply bluffing.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6681507 - 03/17/07 08:03 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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This is not me that speaks but the Holy Spirit speaking through me.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681519 - 03/17/07 08:07 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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I think you have developed an identity complex. I think they have medicine for that, but it would probably be better to choose to go through some sort of path towards becoming aware of oneself and one's nature in order to dissolve one's contorted sense of identity.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681524 - 03/17/07 08:08 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: I have absolutly no authority of my own. I am only doing what God is telling me to do.
Meds my son. You need them now.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681534 - 03/17/07 08:11 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: This is not me that speaks but the Holy Spirit speaking through me.
Alright then. If it is the Holy Spirit speaking through you, and we're assuming the Holy Spirit is omniscient, then tell me what ten digit number I have written on a piece of paper next to my computer.
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6681544 - 03/17/07 08:15 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Demotriton said: I have absolutly no authority of my own. I am only doing what God is telling me to do.
Meds my son. You need them now.
Or go to the Mysticism forum which is the same thing.;)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6681549 - 03/17/07 08:19 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: I think you have developed an identity complex. I think they have medicine for that, but it would probably be better to choose to go through some sort of path towards becoming aware of oneself and one's nature in order to dissolve one's contorted sense of identity.
Although i agree with your position. You are breaking the rules of the forum again.
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6681554 - 03/17/07 08:21 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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He can't help but abuse power, he's a mod.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sinbad
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6681579 - 03/17/07 08:30 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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He just can't help himself. We shuld get Swami back in here to be a mod.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6681580 - 03/17/07 08:30 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
vigilant_mind said:
Quote:
Demotriton said: This is not me that speaks but the Holy Spirit speaking through me.
Alright then. If it is the Holy Spirit speaking through you, and we're assuming the Holy Spirit is omniscient, then tell me what ten digit number I have written on a piece of paper next to my computer.
"a wicked an adulterous generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah."
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681594 - 03/17/07 08:35 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said:
Quote:
vigilant_mind said:
Quote:
Demotriton said: This is not me that speaks but the Holy Spirit speaking through me.
Alright then. If it is the Holy Spirit speaking through you, and we're assuming the Holy Spirit is omniscient, then tell me what ten digit number I have written on a piece of paper next to my computer.
"a wicked an adulterous generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah."
Then give me the sign of Jonah. I want it, now.
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681598 - 03/17/07 08:36 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: "Why do you attack my son? Is it his fault that he loves you and wishes you salvation? Is not my greatest commandment to Love one another? Why then do you treat him so?"
I don't know who you are quoting.
The truth causes division. Would it be loving for me to keep silence while you are stuck in a bog of false doctrine?
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6681601 - 03/17/07 08:37 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Will this do?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6681602 - 03/17/07 08:39 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Yeah! What you said.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6681609 - 03/17/07 08:41 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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I never thought I'd find myself rooting for fivepointer, but in a battle between two close-minded fundamentalists, I like to see the pro putting the amateur in his place.
--------------------
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6681610 - 03/17/07 08:41 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: Although i agree with your position. You are breaking the rules of the forum again.
I was discussing the idea that the other poster proposed for discussion. I appreciate your perspective on the matter but do not agree with it. The poster chose to outline for discussion aspects of themself and I gave my outlook on that content that he posted. You state that I'm breaking the rules again but I am not aware of a first time.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Silversoul]
#6681611 - 03/17/07 08:42 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: I never thought I'd find myself rooting for fivepointer, but in a battle between two close-minded fundamentalists, I like to see the pro putting the amateur in his place.
I second that.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6681614 - 03/17/07 08:44 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Making insinuations as the to persons mental health is a direct personalism, and against the forum rules. Whether or not you forumlated your opinons based upon what the poster said is irrelevant. You must direct your responses to the posters content, not the poster him/herself. I wonder why you are a mod if you cannot uphold the simple rules of the forum.
--------------------
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6681641 - 03/17/07 08:55 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: Making insinuations as the to persons mental health is a direct personalism, and against the forum rules. Whether or not you forumlated your opinons based upon what the poster said is irrelevant.
It is not a question of whether or not I formulated my opinion on what the user posted, but the fact that they specificially proposed that aspect of their nature for discussion. The poster made this comment:
Quote:
Demotriton said: I have absolutly no authority of my own. I am only doing what God is telling me to do.
He expresses an aspect of himself and offers his explanation for it. I propose an alternate point of view on why he might be experiencing this phenomenon of not making choices, but being acted through - some sort of identity complex.
It is not a personalim attack - it is a continuation of the discussion of an idea that the poster himself proposed for discussion. I realize you fail to make this distinction. I interpret the rules to mean that idea-orientated discussion is the purpose and intent of this forum whereas directing comments towards the poster themself is not. As I was directly responding to the idea that was presented, and my response pertained to that idea only, it is not in violation of any forum rules, guidelines, or intent.
This is my interpretation of the situation and of the rules and guidelines. You may feel free to discuss the matter with myself through private messages, or to contact another staff member through pm's or the support ticket system if you feel like doing so.
Quote:
I wonder why you are a mod if you cannot uphold the simple rules of the forum.
If I felt that I was engaging in activity that was in violation of the rules of the forum which I was moderating, then I would not engage in such activity. If you have a legitamate concern in regards to my moderation then feel free to direct it through the appropriate avenues.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6681648 - 03/17/07 09:01 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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You are providing many justifications, this is a bad sign to begin with.Anything can be thought of as an offering of how things work for an individual poster, that does not give you the right to question anyones mental health based upon what they say. It is a direct personalism. He did not offer up aspects of his/her mental health for analysis, he offered up a presentation of his/her faith and belief, to which you directed your response at the individual him/herself. I could understand if he/she posted in the phys/mental health section, and asked for an analysis. This was not the case, and you acted out of turn with the rules.
For instance, if i said i was a good person, that is pertaining to an aspect of my mental health, but does not give anyone the right to direct a reply insinuating that i need medication. That is not directed at the 'idea' but at the poster him/herself.
--------------------
Edited by Sinbad (03/17/07 09:10 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6681670 - 03/17/07 09:11 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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P&S tag team Sat night wrestling.
Fivepointer VS Demotriton
And
Fireworksgod VS Sinbad.
Where's the popcorn.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6681671 - 03/17/07 09:11 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: Anything can be thought of as an offering of how things work for an individual poster, that does not give you the right to question anyones mental health based upon what they say. It is a direct personalism. He did not offer up aspects of his/her mental health for analysis, he offered up a presentation of his/her faith and belief, to which you directed your response at the individual him/herself. I could understand if he/she posted in the phys/mental health section, and asked for an analysis. This was not the case, and you acted out of turn with the rules.
He stated that he believes that he does not choose to act, but rather that God acts through him.
Now, this forum is for open discussion of ideas presented. Would it be acceptable to question that God actually talked to him? Clearly. I questioned the validity of his statement by proposing an alternate explanation for the nature of this phenomenon, that he might simply have an identity complex in which aspects of himself are disassociated from others, and he subsequently acts under the impression that something else is choosing his actions.
It is a valid point raised in response to a valid idea presented for discussion.
Quote:
For instance, if i said i was a good person, that is pertaining to an aspect of my mental health, but does not give anyone the right to direct a reply insinuating that i need medication. That is not directed at the 'idea' but at the poster themselves.
This is not an apt analogy. If you proposed that you were a good person and I questioned that your statement was true, then it might more resemble this specific circumstance.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6681678 - 03/17/07 09:16 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: He did not offer up aspects of his/her mental health for analysis
He did offer up aspects of the process by which his decisions and choices are determined, now didn't he? He proposed his theory for the nature of this process and I questioned it by proposing an equally plausible explanation.
That's open discussion. That's why we are here - to discuss the ideas that we present. You are proposing that I was not discussing the idea presented, but instead directing comments agansit the poster presenting them. The poster presented an idea for discussion - the fact that it pertained to an aspect of themselves is irrelevant. Perhaps you are either misinterpreting this situation or the rules you are referring to.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6681680 - 03/17/07 09:17 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Lets review what you actually said:
"I think you have developed an identity complex. I think they have medicine for that, but it would probably be better to choose to go through some sort of path towards becoming aware of oneself and one's nature in order to dissolve one's contorted sense of identity.
This is so obviosuly a direct personalism that i really don't know why you are trying to sugar coat it with your psuedo-logical justifications.
--------------------
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
#6681725 - 03/17/07 09:31 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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A qualification for modship is never admitting wrongdoing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6681728 - 03/17/07 09:32 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: A qualification for modship is never admitting wrongdoing.
Indeed
--------------------
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6681787 - 03/17/07 09:49 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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The sign of Jonah is that on the 3rd day the son of man will rise again.
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681801 - 03/17/07 09:53 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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That's just a statement, not a sign.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6681870 - 03/17/07 10:19 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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The deeper I go in my walk with Christ the more signs & wonders I see that I could not see before. Like the sun spinning and emitting rainbow colors of light. Certain stars shooting out rays of light with the love of God emitting from them. I hear of testimonies of the dead being raised, the crippled, the blind, and all sorts of ailments healed by the power of God through the faithful. Jesus is alive in spirit among us. Look for him, & you will see him.
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6681950 - 03/17/07 10:56 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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"Like the sun spinning and emitting rainbow colors of light. Certain stars shooting out rays of light with the love of God emitting from them."
How do you know this is from God and not some chemical disturbance in your brain? Many "Pentacostals" are claiming great signs and wonders, but just examine the doctrine they bring, anyone who knows the gospel knows these are deceivers.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6682010 - 03/17/07 11:22 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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As God revealed to me at a spirit conference last weekend. There are people who are filled with the holy spirit that are misled by the devil. Some people have the Holy Spirit and the devil within them. That is why St. Paul told us to put on the "Armour of God" So that we have protection from the evil one.
The people God showed me did not have protection from the evil one cause they did not seek it. You also need to be aware of the evil one and discern where this is leading before you follow that path.
God has shown me a lot of things of how cleverly Satan can deceive us.
But Satan only has power over us if we let him. People misled by Satan allow some kind of opening for him to work, and they have to agree with what he says in order for him to influence him. This is why God has instructed me to life much more Dependant on him than what he asks of others.
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6682075 - 03/17/07 11:36 PM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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The truly converted can not have both the Holy Spirit and the devil within them. That is impossible. The saved are sealed with the Holy Spirit and translated out of the dark kingdom entirely.
You still haven't answered whether you believe in transubstantiation, do tell.
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6682278 - 03/18/07 12:33 AM (17 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
I hear of testimonies of the dead being raised, the crippled, the blind, and all sorts of ailments healed by the power of God through the faithful. Jesus is alive in spirit among us. Look for him, & you will see him.
You're right, you only hear of those things happening.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6682919 - 03/18/07 09:59 AM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: This is not me that speaks but the Holy Spirit speaking through me.
http://www.christian-faith.com/testimonies/paranoid.htm
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6683320 - 03/18/07 11:55 AM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said: The truly converted can not have both the Holy Spirit and the devil within them. That is impossible. The saved are sealed with the Holy Spirit and translated out of the dark kingdom entirely. You still haven't answered whether you believe in transubstantiation, do tell.
How is it you come to this conclusion? I only know what God showed me. I felt the Holy spirit very powerfully, and sensed the presence of Satan coming from the same man.
Also a year ago AFTER I was baptized in the Holy Spirit thinking I was free from evil forever, A very Holy Priest cast out an evil spirit from me at a Healing Mass. I actually FELT the thing crawl out of me. So I KNOW from personal experience that you can have more than one spirit in you just so long as YOU are in agreement with both parties. Since then I have repented and am now clean.
Yes I do believe the bread & wine become the Body of Christ at Mass, but you receive no benefit if you do not truly believe this when eating it. I have felt the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist at certain times. So I know from personal experience.
I am only trying to help you see the truth. Where does all this anger and resentment come from?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6683330 - 03/18/07 11:58 AM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
I am only trying to help you see the truth. Where does all this anger and resentment come from?
Perhaps the contemptible arrogance of statements such as this.
--------------------
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6683417 - 03/18/07 12:19 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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You ran into another fundamentalist on the Shroomery. Trust me, it's a coincidence.
-------------------- "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6683459 - 03/18/07 12:29 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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The problem with your theology is it is not based on scripture but based on feelings and experience. This is how you arrive at perverse doctrines. You claim you were baptized in the Holy Spirit, yet I see you oppose the gospel, so you may of had a spirit but it was not the Holy Spirit. You call the mass a "Healing Mass". How could a true Christian call the blasphemous absurdity of a "Mass" healing? No Christian would ever say this. Show me from scripture how bread and wine become the Body of Christ, you can't. You claim the Bible is the Word of God, yet oppose it at every turn.
You are a wolf who uses all the familiar words associated with the gospel, yet twists the meanings and context to create another gospel, this is what every false teacher does.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6683514 - 03/18/07 12:48 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Would you talk to your own grandma like that if she interpretted the Bible differently
-------------------- "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fivepointer
newbie
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Basilides]
#6683520 - 03/18/07 12:50 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Yes.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom
Registered: 02/10/06
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6683538 - 03/18/07 12:53 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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What if she talked to you in the same tone and manner?
What if she stopped sending you 5 dollar checks on your birthday
What if Jesus had a personal rule that he always sides with grandma.
-------------------- "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Demotriton
Stranger
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6683547 - 03/18/07 12:55 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said: The problem with your theology is it is not based on scripture but based on feelings and experience. This is how you arrive at perverse doctrines. You claim you were baptized in the Holy Spirit, yet I see you oppose the gospel, so you may of had a spirit but it was not the Holy Spirit. You call the mass a "Healing Mass". How could a true Christian call the blasphemous absurdity of a "Mass" healing? No Christian would ever say this. Show me from scripture how bread and wine become the Body of Christ, you can't. You claim the Bible is the Word of God, yet oppose it at every turn.
You are a wolf who uses all the familiar words associated with the gospel, yet twists the meanings and context to create another gospel, this is what every false teacher does.
You misunderstood me, in the Catholic church there is something called the Charismatic Renewal which is made up of Catholics baptized in the Holy Spirit. They have what is called Healing Masses, they are different from regular masses as there is prayer for healing during & after the mass.
I have worshiped and praised God in many different ways, Mass is just one of them. How is it you come to the conclusion the Mass is absurd?
Here in scripture is one of the places it explains the bread & wine becoming the Body & Blood of Jesus Christ.
Matthew 26:26-28 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 7:1-2 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6683548 - 03/18/07 12:55 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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How do you know this is from God and not some chemical disturbance in your brain?
This is a question you should ask yourself dood.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Demotriton
Stranger
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6683563 - 03/18/07 12:59 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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FAITH
Ephesians 2:8
By this undeserved kindness indeed you have been saved through faith and this is not owing to you it is a gift from God.
Without faith we CANNOT be saved. I trust God's explanation more than the world's explanation.
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6683567 - 03/18/07 01:00 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: FAITH
Ephesians 2:8
By this undeserved kindness indeed you have been saved through faith and this is not owing to you it is a gift from God.
Without faith we CANNOT be saved. I trust God's explanation more than the world's explanation.
And for reasons only explicable by you your faith is more valid than all of the world's other religions?
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6683602 - 03/18/07 01:12 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Jesus spoke in parables and pictures. Physical bread and physical wine are not being spoken of. These are pictures of pointing to spiritual truths. In John 6 Jesus says you must eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man. The Jews strove with Him because they only understood this physically and not spiritually. It is amazing how even with that example in scripture people still think in physical terms when it comes to physical bread and wine.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6683661 - 03/18/07 01:25 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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"Please my children stop agruing and repent of your sins. Can you not see that my son loves you and is trying to help you? Why is it that you doubt my word?"
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6683690 - 03/18/07 01:32 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Who woulda thought someone would read the Bible literally
-------------------- "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6683695 - 03/18/07 01:33 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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"I have worshiped and praised God in many different ways, Mass is just one of them. How is it you come to the conclusion the Mass is absurd? "
You don't know why it is absurd and blasphemous? See the link for a detailed explanation:
http://www.godsonlygospel.com/Mass2.htm
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6683701 - 03/18/07 01:34 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: "Please my children stop agruing and repent of your sins. Can you not see that my son loves you and is trying to help you? Why is it that you doubt my word?"
Who are you quoting?
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6683702 - 03/18/07 01:34 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said: You are a wolf who uses all the familiar words associated with the gospel, yet twists the meanings and context to create another gospel, this is what every false teacher does.
This discussion is not going to result in personalisms. Characterizing the other poster as a "wolf" is not appropriate for this forum.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Basilides]
#6683705 - 03/18/07 01:34 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
"Please my children stop agruing and repent of your sins. Can you not see that my son loves you and is trying to help you? Why is it that you doubt my word?"
If "God" is truly as you say He is, and it is the Holy Spirit speaking through you, "God" should understand our disbelief and you (the Holy Spirit) should be able to convert all of us. So far I've seen neither.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6683731 - 03/18/07 01:40 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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"You have to want conversion I can't force it upon you"
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6683732 - 03/18/07 01:40 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
Quote:
Demotriton said: "Please my children stop agruing and repent of your sins. Can you not see that my son loves you and is trying to help you? Why is it that you doubt my word?"
Who are you quoting?
He's quoting himself.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6683735 - 03/18/07 01:41 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: "You have to want conversion I can't force it upon you"
Well it appears that the "God" who is speaking through you isn't smart enough to persuade me.
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6683798 - 03/18/07 02:02 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
fivepointer said:
Quote:
Demotriton said: "Please my children stop agruing and repent of your sins. Can you not see that my son loves you and is trying to help you? Why is it that you doubt my word?"
Who are you quoting?
He's quoting himself.
I don't know that he is quoting himself or some voice that he thinks he is hearing.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6684133 - 03/18/07 03:46 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God"
Matthew 10:37 "He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me & he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me"
John 14:23 "anyone who loves me, will observe my word & my Father will love him & we shall come & make our abode with him."
James 2:26 "indeed as the body without spirit is dead, so as fatih without works is dead"
Acts 2:17 "and in the last days I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh & your sons & daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions & your old men will dream dreams"
2 Peter 3:3 "for you know this first that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule proceeding according to their own desires"
I am quoting the same spirit which spoke these words.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6684137 - 03/18/07 03:48 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: I am quoting the same spirit which spoke these words.
Is that so?
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6684158 - 03/18/07 03:54 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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If you do not believe that the spirit of God is speaking to me. Then how will you believe God's voice when he speaks to you if you do not reconize his voice in me?
God sent me here to speak his word because there are those who do not listen when he speaks to them.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6684164 - 03/18/07 03:56 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: God sent me here to speak his word because there are those who do not listen when he speaks to them.
Then what will be accomplished by your speaking to them, exactly? If God cannot get them to listen I fail to understand how you would be capable.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6684174 - 03/18/07 03:58 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: If you do not believe that the spirit of God is speaking to me. Then how will you believe God's voice when he speaks to you if you do not reconize his voice in me?
God sent me here to speak his word because there are those who do not listen when he speaks to them.
Jesus is speaking through me. You're a false prophet.
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6684240 - 03/18/07 04:13 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Reply to Demotriton:
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
The spirit that speaks by you brings doctrines contrary to the gospel. Christ's sheep will not be fooled.
Edited by fivepointer (03/18/07 04:19 PM)
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cmoney
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6684255 - 03/18/07 04:15 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: cmoney]
#6684279 - 03/18/07 04:22 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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God is speaking to me right now. He says that Fivepointer and Demotriton are both false prophets who are not elect.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6684357 - 03/18/07 04:50 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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And I am a sheep and choose not to follow any of you.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6684372 - 03/18/07 04:55 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Please, that's not what I told you.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6685503 - 03/18/07 10:34 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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My God is a God of pure Love who sends NO ONE to hell! I am not always good at explaining on how to find him, please forgive me all of you. God is so great I am in his presence right now! Wouldn't you want to follow a God that is so loving and forgiving as the one I know through Christ Jesus? I am sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean it. It's hard sometimes.
I LOVE you ALL my brothers!
May we all experience eternal happiness in heaven!!!
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6685512 - 03/18/07 10:35 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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You may be experiencing a manic episode. I suggest visiting a psychiatrist.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6685524 - 03/18/07 10:37 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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You see my brothers why you don't find the true God? You call him a mental disorder? He is REAL!!!! Sorry, I would type more, but God wants to spend some time with me. Love you!!
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6685544 - 03/18/07 10:43 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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If you're with "God," and assuming you love me enough to do a small favor, ask Him: "God, when will vigilant_mind get 3g of purple haze?"
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6685547 - 03/18/07 10:43 PM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Oh yeah, ask Him how my dead Father is doing, too.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6685907 - 03/19/07 01:13 AM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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All I can tell you is that Jesus Loves you very much & would love to save you if only you would let him. Loosen up bro! God is cool. Why don't you believe me?
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6685915 - 03/19/07 01:16 AM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: All I can tell you is that Jesus Loves you very much & would love to save you if only you would let him. Loosen up bro! God is cool. Why don't you believe me?
You didn't answer my questions. Since you're in the presence of "God," tell him to knock on my door...right now.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6685927 - 03/19/07 01:20 AM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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You need to let him into your life and actually want a relationship with him for what he really is and not what you think he is. God is really cool, he shows me more about him everyday.
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6685932 - 03/19/07 01:21 AM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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I think I like Satan better.
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Basilides
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6685992 - 03/19/07 01:41 AM (17 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
vigilant_mind said: I think I like Satan better.
Why?
-------------------- "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Basilides]
#6686461 - 03/19/07 08:59 AM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Basilides said:
Quote:
vigilant_mind said: I think I like Satan better.
Why?
I'm just antagonizing Demotriton in order to prolong debate. I actually don't believe in Satan as being a literal personage. I consider him to be the archetypal image of mankind's collective vicissitudes. Some call Satan the shadow of Christianity.
Hail Satan!
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6687070 - 03/19/07 01:22 PM (17 years, 4 days ago) |
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I'm just antagonizing Demotriton in order to prolong debate.
And he's doing the same with you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6693096 - 03/20/07 09:05 PM (17 years, 3 days ago) |
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To love God is not to analyze or question his love. We have proof of his love on the cross. For me, I am happier to SERVE God than to RULE in hell. I would rather be humble, than full of pride. I would rather be broken than strong.
I would rather belong to God than to the world.
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6693263 - 03/20/07 09:47 PM (17 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
To love God is not to analyze or question his love.
And who decided that? You?
You would think that a being who constructed humans "in His image" would anticipate our critical inquiry.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6693270 - 03/20/07 09:49 PM (17 years, 3 days ago) |
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Why would you question God's Love? Who knows more him or us?
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6693293 - 03/20/07 09:52 PM (17 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: Why would you question God's Love? Who knows more him or us?
I question "God" because He made me this way. I question "God" because I find it arrogant of our species to assume that we alone are privy to a paradisal afterlife.
If there is a "God," when I arrive to Him postmortem I will tell him, "Hey, it's not my fault for questioning you. You made me this way." And if there isn't a "God," well hey, that's just peachy, is it not?
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6694982 - 03/21/07 11:20 AM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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"We have proof of his love on the cross" Proof of LOVE by KILLING ? By dieing ? By letting his own 'son' be killed ?
NO ! Not for me. I think that is utterly BS.
Jesus could have preached much more, could have done much more good deeds. Perhaps he would have refined his 'insights' by becoming older, at least he died quite young and his teachings remained kind of 'childish' and 'naive'. People grow up and he would have seen better what that means.
Perhaps G*D wanted to get rid of him ?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6695009 - 03/21/07 11:26 AM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: Why would you question God's Love? Who knows more him or us?
Us.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Posts: 10,689
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6695051 - 03/21/07 11:37 AM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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I don't care about heaven it sounds boring. The people there are sure to be insufferable and overbearing. Satan at least understands what it means to be imperfect. I will be hanging out below with my friends discussing interesting concepts and attempting to transcend the limitations of dogmatic belief. I bet Icelander will be there...if anybody is going to Hell he is...he just said God is stupid.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6695121 - 03/21/07 11:56 AM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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I've been offered a executive position down below. I will be in charge of tormenting all the playboy and penthouse girls. Bad, bad girls.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6695158 - 03/21/07 12:10 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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I don't think you'll have any customers. Most of them probably have the money to buy absolution from a local cleric...Christians will forgive you if you hand out lots of money to them. That is just my experience. Money and power always weigh more than virtue with those sorts.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6697468 - 03/21/07 10:45 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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How can you say such terrible things about your creator? & your savior Jesus? Do you know that without God we would all be nothing? I sense the evil one very strong here. In the name of JESUS CHRIST our savior for the sake of his glorious name, set your captives FREE from the evil one. Free your imprisoned children from bondage for the sake of your name in Christ Jesus. For those without faith, I ask thee Lord Jesus to send a sign so that your glory may be manifested here. Send out a sign to the unbelievers so that they may know that you are the CHRIST. I forgive all those here who have spoken against your name for they are being misled by the evil one. Set your captives free for the sake of your name so that they may KNOW you are the savior Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen
Our Lord Jesus Christ has spoken to me, he WILL send out a sign for the unbelievers.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6697483 - 03/21/07 10:49 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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Thank you Lord Jesus, thank you so much for hearing my prayer. I renounce in your name ALL false religions and teaches for the sake of your name. I acknowledge you Lord Jesus as the true God's ONLY means of salvation so as not to confuse your children. It is the works of Satan through men that have created these false religions and I renounce them for the sake of your Name Lord Jesus. Please forgive my brothers for they know not what they do. Thank you Jesus, Thank you Jesus, once again for hearing and ANSWERING my prayer. May all glory and praise be to you Jesus forever & ever.
Amen
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6697496 - 03/21/07 10:51 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Do you know that without God we would all be nothing?
This is typical fundamentalist logic. Total bullshit. Sorry, but this is just utterly wrong. Look at Atheists. They don't believe in "God" yet most of them live very fruitful lives. Many Atheists are more moralistic individuals than most Christians are...
The Christian "God" of America is imaginary. People say that you can "hear" him-- bullshit. Do you hear His booming voice? Does "God" come down from heaven and speak with you? No, he doesn't. What you're doing is calling your higher unconscious mind "God."
Do some reading outside of the Bible. Seriously.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6697551 - 03/21/07 11:05 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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God is real and he WILL prove himself for I have heard his voice. I know you as well as many others on here have been misled. God sent me here to train me in what I will be doing when the time comes. God loves you even though you don't believe.
God has a message for you. If you don't need God, and he doesn't exist your life would be perfect right? You would have everything you need, and would be infinitely happy, but somehow I don't see this in you for one reason there is much happier places than where we are now, so why are you here if you don't need God? Can you ascend to higher places on your own? God created us for him. He created us for love and put us here so that we can decide to be with him or without him. By deciding for him we give our lives to Christ Jesus, by living for the things of God and no longer for ourselves.
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6697564 - 03/21/07 11:10 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
God is real and he WILL prove himself for I have heard his voice.
If you're literally hearing voices then you may be a paranoid schizophrenic. Visit a psychiatrist.
Quote:
God has a message for you. If you don't need God, and he doesn't exist your life would be perfect right? You would have everything you need, and would be infinitely happy,
Of course, this all depends on your perception, but no one's life is perfect. Not even that of Christians. In fact, I'd say that religious folk seem more miserable than the rest of us.
Quote:
but somehow I don't see this in you
You know nothing about me bud. Don't even try.
You're preaching to the choir man. I was a fundamentalist Christian. I've been where you are. You are in need of a stark epiphany my friend. There is much more to life than your stilted version of Christianity.
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Grok
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6697565 - 03/21/07 11:10 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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To imply that heaven is someplace other than earth...are you saying that this is hell? Why do I have to die before I can experience what you call heaven? I'm already there. Here. 'God' gave me a cool body and a reality full of awesome trippy substances where I could start a revolution or have an orgy or fly a helicopter. What isn't heavenly about that?
Please leave Jesus out of this. The guy will probably be shaking his head for eternity at all the nonesense that is proclaimed in his name. I think he was just trying to help people understand that life would be a lot easier if we'd be more compassionate towards each other and have faith in life itself. I have no doubt that Jesus was God or that you and I are either. Forget about Jesus. We'd be much better off to just start over with trying to understand God/life/love/universe/ourselves.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Grok]
#6697612 - 03/21/07 11:22 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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I THOUGHT I was happy until I found God, God lead me to Jesus & told me that Jesus was his means of saving us. We must go to Jesus if we are to be saved. Jesus was sinless & suffered & died for our sins. We all have sin, so we must go to Jesus to be cleansed of our sin. Having Faith is a process, each day I renew my faith, faith without works=weak faith faith with works=strong faith.
By trying to imitate what Jesus did, with the help of the Holy Spirit we show our desire for God's kingdom. Sin does not exist in God's Kingdom so we must avoid sin here to show him we no longer desire what isn't in his kingdom. We must also desire what IS in his kingdom, we show this through our actions.
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6697624 - 03/21/07 11:25 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
I THOUGHT I was happy until I found God, God lead me to Jesus & told me that Jesus was his means of saving us. We must go to Jesus if we are to be saved
This reminds me so much of the Scientology episode of South Park when Stan gets audit counseling for a "nominal fee" and is then told, to his surprise, how really depressed he is. lol
Quote:
faith, faith without works=weak faith faith with works=strong faith.
And who said that? You? Faith with or without works is still faith.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6697655 - 03/21/07 11:32 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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Its in the bible, sorry I'm not much for specifying quotes from the bible, its written in my heart, God reminds me of what needs to be said now anyways. Here's some places in the bible it says it. James 2:18, James 2:26, John 14:23
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Wasteland
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6697676 - 03/21/07 11:37 PM (17 years, 2 days ago) |
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-------------------- The Mad Shroomer said: People are always promising the apocalypse. They never deliver.
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Icelander
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6699018 - 03/22/07 11:37 AM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: How can you say such terrible things about your creator? & your savior Jesus? Do you know that without God we would all be nothing? I sense the evil one very strong here. In the name of JESUS CHRIST our savior for the sake of his glorious name, set your captives FREE from the evil one. Free your imprisoned children from bondage for the sake of your name in Christ Jesus. For those without faith, I ask thee Lord Jesus to send a sign so that your glory may be manifested here. Send out a sign to the unbelievers so that they may know that you are the CHRIST. I forgive all those here who have spoken against your name for they are being misled by the evil one. Set your captives free for the sake of your name so that they may KNOW you are the savior Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen
Our Lord Jesus Christ has spoken to me, he WILL send out a sign for the unbelievers.
Swami is that you?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MAGnum
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Icelander]
#6699134 - 03/22/07 12:20 PM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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Christianity is such a farse that the doctrin they believe in has whole errancies dedicated to pointing out it's contradictions.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/christianity/errancy.html
I am sure Jesus is rolling in that old bone box of his at all the shit people do or try to do in his name.. Poor son of a bitch..
Separate christian groups can't even agree with each other on the Bible and not only that, Christianity is so irrational that you really have to lie to yourself to believe it. I was a born again christian and I will never lie to myself or others like that ever again.. Never..
I guess I am an All-American anti-christ now..
Quote:
http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2002/08/dear-believer.php Finally, Christianity is harmful. More people have been killed in the name of a god than for any other reason. The Church has a shameful, bloody history of Crusades, Inquisitions, witch-burnings, heresy trials, American colonial intolerance, disrespect of indigenous traditions (such as American Indians), support of slavery, and oppression of women. Modern “fruits” of religion include the Jonestown massacre, the callous fraud of “faith healers,” recent wars and ethnic cleansing, and fighting in Northern Ireland. Religion also poses a danger to mental health, damaging self-respect, personal responsibility, and clarity of thought."
--------------------------
-------------------- Agent 727 7
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MAGnum
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Mr_Prickles]
#6699156 - 03/22/07 12:27 PM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Mr_Prickles said:
Plus, the canon of the Bible was selected by humans well after it was written, so some of the books may be less trustworthy than others, and there may be other texts out there (the gospel of Judas being the most recent example) that may be closer to the truth.
Free Apocrypha (non-cannon books): http://www.comparative-religion.com/christianity/apocrypha/
-------------------- Agent 727 7
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MAGnum
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6699198 - 03/22/07 12:38 PM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: Sorry I didn't get a chance to post on here till now. Before I answer I have just ONE question to ask everyone that posted. What is God's purpose for creating us.
If we were created by God, the only purpose one could surmise is that we were simply created to exist. Anything beyond that is not provable.. We don't even need God to create us. Even without God, we are simply here to exist.
-------------------- Agent 727 7
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: MAGnum]
#6700031 - 03/22/07 05:21 PM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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Surely we gain something by incarnating.
-------------------- "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6700536 - 03/22/07 07:44 PM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: My God is a God of pure Love who sends NO ONE to hell! I am not always good at explaining on how to find him, please forgive me all of you. God is so great I am in his presence right now! Wouldn't you want to follow a God that is so loving and forgiving as the one I know through Christ Jesus? I am sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean it. It's hard sometimes.
I LOVE you ALL my brothers!
May we all experience eternal happiness in heaven!!!
You have asserted God loves everyone without exception, then how do you reconcile the verses for election and reprobation below?
On election:
Eph 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Ac 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 Th2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Romans 9:21-23 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
On reprobation:
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Mat 11:25-26 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Ro 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
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Trepiodos
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6700569 - 03/22/07 07:52 PM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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Heaven is such a childish concept. So many Christians are driven by pure selfishness in their faith: avoid the punishment of hell, seek the rewards of heaven... a simpleton's guide to morality and belief. It's about the same way you train small children and pets.
-------------------- And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Trepiodos]
#6701386 - 03/22/07 11:03 PM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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God does love ALL his children. Just not all his children WANT to be with him in heaven. For some people hell looks like heaven to them and that is why they go there. Just look at the posts people are putting here, right now they are not headed for heaven cause they don't want to go there. but God still loves you even if you don't choose him.
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6701403 - 03/22/07 11:09 PM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: God does love ALL his children. Just not all his children WANT to be with him in heaven. For some people hell looks like heaven to them and that is why they go there. Just look at the posts people are putting here, right now they are not headed for heaven cause they don't want to go there. but God still loves you even if you don't choose him.
What if I don't want Heaven or Hell?
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6701411 - 03/22/07 11:12 PM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Want to go to heaven?
No. "In heaven, all the interesting people are missing."
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Demotriton
Stranger
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6701816 - 03/23/07 01:45 AM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
vigilant_mind said:
Quote:
Demotriton said: God does love ALL his children. Just not all his children WANT to be with him in heaven. For some people hell looks like heaven to them and that is why they go there. Just look at the posts people are putting here, right now they are not headed for heaven cause they don't want to go there. but God still loves you even if you don't choose him.
What if I don't want Heaven or Hell?
Being whats going to happen to the world, I don't know why you wouldn't want God's mercy. You might end up being tricked into choosing hell if you don't choose God. Sorry, God put us on this earth to choose, thats one of the reasons things are going to happen the way they will, to get people to choose one or the other. but thats something you need to decide for yourself. God has shown me heaven, its beyond description and is indescribably awesome. Pure Love is the greatest thing, love on earth doesn't even come the smallest fraction close to what Love is in heaven. It takes on a whole new meaning. Everyone is in Love with everyone else, everything is in harmony, we all share each others thoughts, feelings and experiences as if we are one but we are still separate some how (hard to describe) Everything is made of light & full of love, there is so much going on you could get lost standing still. God is beyond description in heaven, he has such great love, I can't even begin to describe. Jesus' love is pretty indescribable, God's just blows you away for all eternity. Its awesome, but I can see why some people don't choose it, I initially didn't choose it because I didn't want the intimacy that is with everyone in heaven, I wanted my own world all to myself, not so in heaven we share EVERYTHING. Not everyone is ready for heaven.
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Chrisped
Say What?
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6702006 - 03/23/07 04:56 AM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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I'd like to say a couple of words...
Please do not take offense as these are my personal views.
Firstly I would like to say that I do not believe in a God. It is my opinion that the notion is maintained by the human brain for two reasons 1/ in an effort to explain that which we cannot (yet) 2/ self preservation instinct refuses to accept the finality of death.
I also think is no logical reason why you should continue to exist in some disembodied form after your physical existence comes to an end.
The mind is a wonderful thing but we are no different to any other life form - we live, we die, end of story. We should really not have the presumption that we are any different because we learned to communicate abstract thought and recognise ourselves in a mirror.
With all do respect to those that believe otherwise, I for one do not think there is a heaven or a hell, just what we make of the time we have here. I do not need to believe in any of these to make me a good person.
-------------------- Look around and choose your own ground For long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be ......
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Trepiodos
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6702141 - 03/23/07 06:42 AM (17 years, 1 day ago) |
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How can you verify the existence of a heaven? What proof do you have of such a place? Why is it important to you to believe in a conscious existence beyond death?
-------------------- And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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leery11
I Tell You What!
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Trepiodos]
#6702961 - 03/23/07 12:40 PM (17 years, 18 hours ago) |
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if everyone had the clear choice of such love no one would reject it
are you preaching a message of exclusive salvation, with only a handful getting the love that everyone deserves equally?
It is because it is like this to me: this heaven is unconditional irrefutable truth. It is gold. Anyone who has a monument of excrement and waste they worship would instantly flock to gold if even given the briefest taste of its glory... it doesn't matter if they are rulers of a world where excrement is the only currency, they would see the gold is so much better than what even they have, that they would gladly just be a peasant in a nation of gold than to be king in this wasteland........
this gold then, is "the holy spirit" and it is "Christ" but the connundrum is thusly, anyone that TRUELY BEARS WITNESS is forever changed, such as you claim to be..... the rest are NOT BEING SHOWN THE TRUTH for if they would the truth WOULD HUMBLE THEM it is inevitable... there is nothing in "hell" or on "earth" or in our imaginations that would even begin to compare to what heaven has to mean and therefore to just be given an appetizer would be all that is necessary for a person to be forever changed.
Think of it as computer programs. Someone is playing Doom 3 and you have a program that sends electricity into their brains causing them to be at one with psychedelic love until the point that all their defilements are cleansed away. If you ask them about it they may be like "pshhhh whatever" and play doom, but if you just plop it in for them they would be forever greatful that you took the time to MAKE SURE THAT THEY SAW THE TRUTH UNTIL THEY WERE SAVED BY IT, AND WERE PERSISTENT UNTIL THE END AND NEVER EVER EVER GAVE UP ON THEM
it is the fundamental difference between a parent who abandons their miscreant child versus one who does everything it takes, even laying their life on the line, to just do something...... anything..... who never gives up, and even loves the child unconditionally if it winds up in jail, and still sends the child love, and always will, even if the child is killed in jail..... even if no matter what...
so if this God has power, why does he let himself be shrouded by absolute nutty morons who are dogmatic and misleaded and DO NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT and why does he let us be tricked into thinking that the Christianity is evil and abhorrently stupid and naive because of the fruits of its followers, only to let this broken dogma actually be the vehicle of truth, effectively blinding all rational people to the merits of Jesus because they see that people like Ghandi and Buddha were also Christ-like, and laid out better and more logical paths to follow
why does he let all these ideas of Lucifer spring up> Ideas such as you can have so much spiritual joy and truth and be at one with everything, but it will be a lie and then you will go to hell ? ???? It is very easy to see Christianity as dogmatic programming, it is very easy to see Jesus as messiah, but the dogma makes it all irrelevant....... one who wants the love of God in form of a personal deity would be better suited to follow the Hare Krishnas or worship a Boddhisattva or a Buddha than to be a Christian. This is because they are not in danger of daedly poisonous guilt ridden dogma if they follow other faiths which center around divine love represented by a figure, a deity...... so
does this Jesus really have monopoly over heaven, is he the only key? if so...,., why are his followers so blinded? I mean.... any story makes sense when you listen to it.
I can tell you how it is so that it is just a construct of "illuminati" and the Bible is a method of control, and I can tell you with great authority, even though I am kind of writing fiction, and how Buddhism is the ultimate way and many bodies of CHRIST exist on this planet who are healing people, sometimes healing them to be Christians and sometimes healing them to be atheists and sometimes healing them to be Buddhists and sometimes healing them to play a role in social change and sometimes doing all sorts of things
and it would be from personal experience
yet
I do not know
and when someone claims to KNOW
it is very dangerous
A lot of us would believe in Jesus if we simply had Jesus to believe in, rather than anit-Christ, hell, devil, and all the other gabrage infiltrating a message of love and peace, IMO. Who doesn't want someone that loves you enough to die for you...... ? Who doesn't want what is spoken of when "God's love is referenced" but it is either real or it isn't
I want my wings. I want Jesus without dogma I want pure ____________________ the ineffable love of "God" the holy spirit
every person does IMO.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6703459 - 03/23/07 02:58 PM (17 years, 16 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said:
Quote:
vigilant_mind said:
Quote:
Demotriton said: God does love ALL his children. Just not all his children WANT to be with him in heaven. For some people hell looks like heaven to them and that is why they go there. Just look at the posts people are putting here, right now they are not headed for heaven cause they don't want to go there. but God still loves you even if you don't choose him.
What if I don't want Heaven or Hell?
Being whats going to happen to the world, I don't know why you wouldn't want God's mercy. You might end up being tricked into choosing hell if you don't choose God. Sorry, God put us on this earth to choose, thats one of the reasons things are going to happen the way they will, to get people to choose one or the other. but thats something you need to decide for yourself. God has shown me heaven, its beyond description and is indescribably awesome. Pure Love is the greatest thing, love on earth doesn't even come the smallest fraction close to what Love is in heaven. It takes on a whole new meaning. Everyone is in Love with everyone else, everything is in harmony, we all share each others thoughts, feelings and experiences as if we are one but we are still separate some how (hard to describe) Everything is made of light & full of love, there is so much going on you could get lost standing still. God is beyond description in heaven, he has such great love, I can't even begin to describe. Jesus' love is pretty indescribable, God's just blows you away for all eternity. Its awesome, but I can see why some people don't choose it, I initially didn't choose it because I didn't want the intimacy that is with everyone in heaven, I wanted my own world all to myself, not so in heaven we share EVERYTHING. Not everyone is ready for heaven.
You act is if you know "God" and that He actually communicates with you.
You may want to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_complex
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6703863 - 03/23/07 05:20 PM (17 years, 13 hours ago) |
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Yes I do have a personal relationship with God through Christ Jesus. Yes he does speak to me & reveal many secrets to me. He wants to have a relationship with EVERYONE. Problem is not everyone WANTS a relationship with him. First you need to have faith that what Jesus did for us was real, you need to have FAITH that he loves us that much that he would die for us. You need to have faith that he is a God that wants us to love him. You need faith he is a God that will do anything for us he just asks that we love him with ALL our heart, which gets easier & easier the more you get to know him. God is humble, God is meek, God doesn't force his ways on anyone. He wants US to choose.
True some people that call themselves Christians present a false message of God. True there are those that think they are Christians that think they have faith. You know TRUE Christians by their LOVE. We grow in this love for God everyday. None of our love is perfect, but God's love IS, and that is the love we have FAITH in.
I know the world is messed up and seeing God's plan is difficult with all the deception the devil has going on. but God did give us freedom of choice, so everyday we have both sides (kingdom of light & kingdom of darkness) presented to us in all different kinds of forms in which it is up to US to distinguish & decide for ourselves.
You don't even have to go to church to find God, I didn't I found him after I skipped mass for the first time every on Christmas, and I didn't go to church much at all at the time. All you need to know is have FAITH in who he is, and seek him. KEEP seeking him for WHO he really is, don't give up persevere. Pray as often as you can seeking him. Think about him and what he has done for you, desire to to know him more.
Matthew 7:7 Keep on asking & it will be given to you, keep on seeking & you will find, & to every one knocking it will be opened.
Is Christianity the key to getting to heaven? Does one have to go through Jesus? From my own personal experience, I seeked the truth, the Virgin Mary spoke to me and said God was the Truth. Began speaking to God our Father & he led me to Jesus & said it is because of him you are saved. I have FAITH that I know God & speak to him, the more I believe the more he reveals himself to me.
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fivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6703999 - 03/23/07 06:31 PM (17 years, 12 hours ago) |
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You keep asserting man has a "free will" and of his own power can make spiritual acts pleasing to God. You have completely erased the fact that man is in bondage to sin and Satan and is so lost that he can not even see his own blindness and is unable to understand spiritual truth. The doctrine of original sin has been eliminated in your theology.
I have repeated stated your "gospel" is salvation by works but you can not see this. I have posted scripture yet you never answer it. Why? A child of God would be glad to answer to scripture. You have subverted the Word of God by the doctrines created in your mind and deceptive spirits. Your notions of who you think God should be (not who He actually is) will not permit you to understand what the Bible is saying. For example the doctrine of predestination does not fit in with your God construct, so you must make pretend it doesn't exist. Are you following His commands by not believing His Word? I hope the truth of the TRUE gospel may shine into your heart.
Who's will is it that saves a sinner? It is God's will, not man's will.
Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Ro 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Eph 1:4-6 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
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Basilides
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
#6704023 - 03/23/07 06:39 PM (17 years, 12 hours ago) |
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So which one of you has the right interpretation?
-------------------- "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Basilides]
#6705065 - 03/24/07 12:53 AM (17 years, 6 hours ago) |
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Dennis Kucinich has the right interpretation.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6711330 - 03/25/07 10:24 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I now see what you are talking about fivepointer. Your right we have absolutely no choice what so ever. It's all God. I am still learning on how to do what God is trying to tell me what to do as part of HIS grand master plan. I wouldn't be here be saved or anything if it weren't for ALL his great works. He DOES have ONE thing he wants me to do. TELL other that these are the LAST days. That I am 100% sure of. The rest, or if there is more he wants me to do, I am not so sure. God has told me a lot of things that are very hard to explain. I did a terrible job in trying to explain them without scripture to back it up. My intention was not to mislead people, but rather my sense of stupidity caused it to come out all wrong, and God has shown me that. He often says, better to fail now then later, for later it will be the real thing. I do have the holy spirit, and have had many incredible experiences with God. From now on I'll stick with the simple truths I do know, Mostly that these are the LAST DAYS!! The tribulation is coming VERY soon. God says I am one of the very last warning WHEN he sends me out, he hasn't sent me out yet, but did tell me to come here.
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6711470 - 03/25/07 11:05 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: I now see what you are talking about fivepointer. Your right we have absolutely no choice what so ever. It's all God. I am still learning on how to do what God is trying to tell me what to do as part of HIS grand master plan. I wouldn't be here be saved or anything if it weren't for ALL his great works. He DOES have ONE thing he wants me to do. TELL other that these are the LAST days. That I am 100% sure of. The rest, or if there is more he wants me to do, I am not so sure. God has told me a lot of things that are very hard to explain. I did a terrible job in trying to explain them without scripture to back it up. My intention was not to mislead people, but rather my sense of stupidity caused it to come out all wrong, and God has shown me that. He often says, better to fail now then later, for later it will be the real thing. I do have the holy spirit, and have had many incredible experiences with God. From now on I'll stick with the simple truths I do know, Mostly that these are the LAST DAYS!! The tribulation is coming VERY soon. God says I am one of the very last warning WHEN he sends me out, he hasn't sent me out yet, but did tell me to come here.
So, what do you do when you're not on the Shroomery spilling out your "Knowledge of God?" It seems that your "Divine role" has taken over your life.
I assume you have a job. Do you go around work speaking like this to other people? Or maybe you're a pastor?
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6711865 - 03/26/07 01:32 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have a job for now. God hasn't asked me to quit my job yet. I don't think I will be on here for long now. God has once again reminded me of "the Big Secret" he keeps reminding me of in so many ways. He first gave me Revelations of it in my head, then showed me where it was in the Old Testament, now in the New Testament. It seems with this knowledge, I have awakened to the realization of the only reason I am here on earth for. No more forgetting who I am & remembering who I used to be.
Edited by Demotriton (03/26/07 01:33 AM)
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fireworks_god
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6712296 - 03/26/07 09:21 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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It is not for us to speculate on such matters when he has not presented them for discussion. It sounds like an exchange best kept in private messages.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
#6714714 - 03/26/07 10:17 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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"the big secret"...?? Care to elaborate?? I thought I had the secret.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: backfromthedead]
#6717131 - 03/27/07 04:48 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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You might know what I call "The Big Secret". I don't like to describe it since its hard to describe, don't want any misunderstandings. Its in the bible, the holy spirit revealed it to me, probably did to you too, as the spirit has to others on here.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6718384 - 03/27/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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God has revealed even more to me today. It seems there are a lot of people posting on this site that have "access" to the spiritual realm, whatever you call it, holy spirit, dream time, Spirit world, etc. I have a lot of questions and ideas I would like to discuss.
1. Who on here knows what I am talking about? How many of "Us" are there?
2. What are your experiences like? How did you come to have this gift?
3. How has this effected your life?
4. Know anything about what I will call the "Big Secret"?
5. Contact any beings?
Please if you have any idea what I am talking about please answer!
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Silversoul
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6718509 - 03/27/07 10:47 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: 1. Who on here knows what I am talking about? How many of "Us" are there?
My take on it: You're having experiences which many of us here have had, but you've been having difficulty integrating it. I've had my share of mystical and even prophetic experiences, but I also realize that the revelations I've had are mainly meant meant for me, not the masses. Thus, I do not go around preaching my message to everyone.
Quote:
2. What are your experiences like? How did you come to have this gift?
My experiences are mine alone, and needn't be discussed in a public forum.
Quote:
3. How has this effected your life?
It's sparked my interest in seeking out similar experiences, and thus has led me on the path of an initiate.
Quote:
4. Know anything about what I will call the "Big Secret"?
Youre Big Secret is for you alone. We all can have the Big Secret revealed differently to us individually according to our capacity to understand it.
Quote:
5. Contact any beings?
Not so much "beings," but rather "Being."
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Silversoul]
#6720046 - 03/28/07 12:37 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I know exactly what you are talking about. I know exactly how you feel. I know exactly what you are going through. Of course not on a personal level, on a metaphysical level. That's why it is amusing I assume for us on this thread to poke and prod at your ego structure. Try not to give so much presidence to your inner experience. It is very important, but balance is also. Stratling the divide is where it's at. Try and have your inner experience reflect more than just your particular beliefs. This presents a problem becuase you live in your beliefs for now. So... What can dissolve the beliefs?? What can fuel the creation of new beliefs?? Avoid a 'dark night' and keep one hand on the wall lest you be put into the wall. My 'big secret' is in my hand. The proof is in the pudding and its not tapioca.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: backfromthedead]
#6722488 - 03/28/07 10:16 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Lrt me just say its GREAT to find others to talk about this stuff.
I understand what you are talking about, that is why I am so thankful I have Jesus to show me the way. I would be completely lost without him. He only shows me what I need to know, he doesn't show me everything since he doesn't want to confuse me. I let him have the reigns in this department and try to give him more of me everyday.
Its amazing how the things he showed me in my childhood made no sense to me at the time, and now make perfect sense. He knew better than me, I had to wait for the right time to know these things and reveal them. My experiences were like pieces of a puzzle scattered throughout my life, I forgot them, and now Jesus is reminding me of all of them, and putting them together for me.
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6723931 - 03/29/07 10:08 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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That my friend is good. I would just be careful throwing around the... "Jesus told me/God told me... Holy Spirit..." Type stuff. I know this is the context in which you learned to relate to the phenomena, but it just carries the Schizo signature with it. Hence the, 'go visit the psych ward posts'. Terrence Mckenna was very cleaver when he chose to describe the experience as alien communication. He knew that the believers were so off base that the Truth would never be tolerated by mainstream religion. The goal is to introduce the new doctrine. How can we reintroduce the truth?? How can you retell the story and incorporate what has been missing??
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: backfromthedead]
#6723983 - 03/29/07 10:25 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I agree, backfromthedead. Perhaps when introducing your ideas in public, Demotritron, you should attach a more secular, generalized set of terms to your beliefs rather than "Jesus" and "God." That way you won't confuse people and/or cause an uproar.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6725547 - 03/29/07 05:30 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's weird since I've been posting about God on here he has been revealing more of who is really is. The bible just opened up in a big way, again for me. Its a new book again, for me. Let me put it this way, I THOUGHT I had faith in who Jesus really was, but a greater understanding of Scripture by casting aside mens misinterpretations of scripture and just listening to the spirit and LETTING HIM and only him show me, I have come to a much greater faith and knowledge of the truth. The bible has become a key to the cosmos, a window into the mind & heart of God. Only the creator of the universe could of written it as the cosmos agrees with it. To deny the bible as truth is to deny the word of God. The depth of the meaning of scripture is so great, even with insight from the spirit it is difficult for my mind to grasp such a concept. Understanding & having faith in parts and pieces of the bible helps to understand & have faith in the bigger parts and truths about God. God loves us so much, I thought I believed until I was shown a deeper meaning, I now totally see why the devil is trying to confuse people about who God really is and who he became. Nothing shows God's love more for us than what HE did to prove it to us, if only we believed we would understand that Jesus is God. Jesus revealed himself the way he did because he knew it would be hard for us to except this truth. The picture is four dimensional, the spirit popped the bible out for me again. The way in which he described it tells a lot more about who God is. I can't possible describe this accurately right now as I just found out today, before I thought I believed now I do believe, the bible, working with the spirit and the world around me PROVED it.
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6729391 - 03/30/07 07:27 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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You should share some of your insights.
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6729501 - 03/30/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am the uproar.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: backfromthedead]
#6729883 - 03/30/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Dude the proof IS the bible. Once you truly believe that Jesus of Nazareth IS GOD & read the OLD testament with that in mind. Jesus said he was the first & last. God in the old testament said the same thing. We HAVE to have faith that Jesus is God, or we don't believe in God and won't be saved. Believing that Jesus is God erases our sins, not believing condemns us to the coming Apocalypse in which the unbelievers are punished for their unbelief in the true God.
I am still getting revelations on this so I don't want to say too much with partial knowledge.
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SneezingPenis
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6729896 - 03/30/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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read that part in deuteronomy about how a bastard to the tenth generation shall not enter the assembly of the lord.
i believe it is in the 20:'s.
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hot48yearolds
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6730209 - 03/31/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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If we are created in gods image then I am god just as much as Jesus was.
Is that too hard for Christians to understand? Come on now...
-------------------- "Truth is more in the process than in the result." - J. Krishnamurti "We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: hot48yearolds]
#6730266 - 03/31/07 12:29 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Are you without fault? God is perfect. None of us qualify to be God.
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6730273 - 03/31/07 12:31 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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You're killing me.
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Silversoul
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6730332 - 03/31/07 12:48 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: Are you without fault? God is perfect. None of us qualify to be God.
God is infinite. We are finite manifestations of that perfection, and thus embody an incomplete degree of that perfection.
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: hot48yearolds]
#6730372 - 03/31/07 12:56 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
hot48yearolds said: If we are created in gods image then I am god just as much as Jesus was.
Is that too hard for Christians to understand? Come on now...
Christ actually told people that they were all GODs. If he didn't he should of.
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: backfromthedead]
#6730373 - 03/31/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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have
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aryah
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: backfromthedead]
#6730429 - 03/31/07 01:20 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV8LpUEdpBI
(sorry, just letting out some frustration with fundamentalism & evangelism)
Edited by aryah (03/31/07 07:02 AM)
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hot48yearolds
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Silversoul]
#6730939 - 03/31/07 07:13 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Demotriton said: Are you without fault? God is perfect. None of us qualify to be God.
God is infinite. We are finite manifestations of that perfection, and thus embody an incomplete degree of that perfection.
Being Zen Buddhist in my beliefs, I believe that Everything is perfect as it is.
You and I are not single people, we are processes or events intertwined with an infinite number of other processes.
You would not exist without anything else existing. Everything is you and you are everything. You are perfect, I promise.
-------------------- "Truth is more in the process than in the result." - J. Krishnamurti "We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: hot48yearolds]
#6733274 - 03/31/07 10:23 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Jesus did say we are all Gods, but are faults separate us from God. To be reunited with him we must be made perfect. Jesus took our faults upon himself and took the punishment for them. Do you believe this? We cannot be reunited with God without admitting our faults (repentence) and putting our trust in Jesus. We are so far from perfection we could never choose nor desire heaven in the state we are now. Jesus loves us all very much and wants a loving relationship with each of us. He wants to show us the way. We must have faith in him, and believe what he is telling us is true. Otherwise we will not have life.
Jesus is the way. Seek Jesus. Trust Jesus. I can speak from personal experience that I have found Jesus, know Jesus, and that the bible is indeed the word of God.
You all of course are free to believe whatever you want. I don't want to agrue. I just want to present what I believe with all my heart is true.
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6736539 - 04/01/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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What is the truth??
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: backfromthedead]
#6736551 - 04/01/07 10:32 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Tell you what... When I burst into the SUNSHINE I was far from perfect. Wish I would have dropped the beans out the basket on the way, but since I planted the 'right' seed and grew the tree out full, I only withered some.
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Cracka_X
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6736555 - 04/01/07 10:34 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I can speak from personal experience that I have found Jesus, know Jesus
Oh, I'm glad you found 'yourself' and say you found Jesus.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
Edited by Cracka_X (04/01/07 10:41 PM)
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Cracka_X]
#6736689 - 04/01/07 11:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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There is no way someone can be saved with so little faith.
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Cracka_X
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6736716 - 04/01/07 11:32 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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there is no way one may see truth unless they remove the obstructions hiding it.
For the world to be seen as it is "truly" is to see it without bias.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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backfromthedead
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6736736 - 04/01/07 11:37 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your truth is missing the entire other half. Some experience GOD before having a belief or faith. This is what starts the process.
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Demotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: backfromthedead]
#6736776 - 04/01/07 11:49 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Faith is an ongoing process. I had many miraculous experiences in my life which gave me faith, but I forgot about it over time because I did not practice my faith, remind myself of who God really is and what he has done.
You also must be careful for misleading spirits. That is why the bible which is the word of God is so essential in discerning what is from God and what is not.
I see so many souls victim to Satan on here, God really does want to save each and every one of you. Please come to Jesus, get to know him he WILL forgive you.
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Cracka_X
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6736782 - 04/01/07 11:51 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I accept your way, why don't you accept mine? To each his own? Why must you provoke your faith upon my beliefs and try to discredit what works for me? Do you truly believe you know what works best for me? What if I were to give in to your faith, follow the bible and end up miserable? And I really tried to give my all to "Christ" and whilst I felt that Christ was the way under fear and pressure of peers, my heart was with a different way.
You don't know me. I was raised Jewish and after my barmitzvah never went to temple again. I go for certain holidays and might go tomorrow/today for passover but it's just out of respect to the religion and not my faith. I don't understand Yahweh's way. And while Christ is very lax compared to Yahweh, I don't understand how God could all of a sudden just send his son to Earth and say follow my son for he is I on Earth. I don't understand how God apparently is rectifying a "mistake" he made with the Old Testament and needed to send Jesus to begin the New Testament. This is extremely trivial.
You could quote the bible all day but you're not going to remove me from what I know and understand and that's nature. Your Christian God is not benevolent to my nature and therefore NOT MY GOD.
As Diploid quoted earlier...
Quote:
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." -Galileo Galilei
If you are right then I will burn in hell. There's gotta be someone flipping burgers and delivering pizzas and there's gotta be someone burning in hell. If I fulfill that balance then so be it.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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NiamhNyx
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6736912 - 04/02/07 12:52 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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So, Demotriton... Tell us a bit about yourself! Where are you from? What are you into? Do you have any brothers or sisters? Are you in school, if so, what are you studying? What are your hobbies? What kind of music do you like best? Play any instruments? Favourite food?...
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Demotriton
Stranger
Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 408
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: NiamhNyx]
#6737062 - 04/02/07 02:34 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Anything about me is irrelevant. I am here to testify for absolute certainty that Christ Jesus is our Lord & savior. Many on here seem to have forgotten that.
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6737219 - 04/02/07 05:53 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Everything about you is relevant. We all have day to day lives that we compose and your day to day life is just as much a part of you than anyone.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Cracka_X]
#6737357 - 04/02/07 07:48 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Positive/negative, GOD/SATAN, ONE... Figure that shit out. All roads lead to ROME. Its just that some people invent shortcuts and actually arrive sooner.
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6737422 - 04/02/07 08:27 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: Anything about me is irrelevant. I am here to testify for absolute certainty that Christ Jesus is our Lord & savior. Many on here seem to have forgotten that.
Honestly, I'm fed up with you. It's statements like this that make me think "no fucking wonder" to all the wars in the past and present. Seriously, you sound blinded by your "light". You interpretation of Christ is what I dread as Satan. People like you taint religion! You sound like a damn robot, be a fucking human being and be your damn self! If you were born onto this Earth without any bible or any religion or ANYTHING and just saw the stars then I'm sure you'd be a little more creative in your interpretation of everything.
Instead, it looks like you've given up on life. You're so insecure and Your interpretation of Christ is your security blanket. What are you afraid of? Why can't you open yourself up?? You don't need to because all you need to is spread Christ? Fuck that, Christ wouldn't want someone to deny their identity. Come as you are and you'll be happy... Otherwise, you'll live in this fear of this world and keep trying to convert your definition of "sinners" to Christ.
If you can't do the math then get out of the fucking equation. Seriously, I've had it with you fundamentalist christians. You assholes preach at our college and just make a mockery of your religion. I know what you preach is not what Christ is about. I have respect for Christ, but not because of your shit. Christ was just another person with some good shit to say, but I'll take his words as a grain of salt and go along my way.
Free yourself of the chains that inhibit your thinking.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6737710 - 04/02/07 10:37 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Do you have something to tell, what we don't already know ? Do you want your 'suggestions' be discussed ? If not, then this is not the right place for you to gain credibility.
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shizznit
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 146
Loc: Palatka FL
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: BlueCoyote]
#6737784 - 04/02/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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"father forgive them for they know not what they do"
You should give some heavy thought to that verse because it's alot deeper then you interpet it to be.
Seriously, do some research before you believe so heartedly in something that you don't even know to be truth apart from what people have told you about it.
good quote for you, don't remember what book it came from but i remember it - "if all your life, for 40 maybe 50 years you were kept in a house on a island with no birds and was told from conception that birds cannot fly. You were told this every day of your life and reinforced by other people on the island who also believe that birds can't fly. Even though not one of you have ever seen a bird. One day you find a boat on the island that carrys you to shore where you get your first glance of a seagull. What of your beliefs now"
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: shizznit]
#6737876 - 04/02/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well Demo, I want to develop a humanized perception of you, hence the questions. I want to believe that you really are a human being that is as dynamic and interesting as anyone else, because as it stands you could be a computer program pumping out catch phrases. No one in the world will ever take your ravings seriously if you are unwilling to connect with them on a personal, human level. Not that I want anyone to take your ravings seriously.... but man, give authentic communication a shot, it's a much more effective and satisfying mode of interaction.
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chemiKalz
u r tripp0r?
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 761
Loc: upstate ny
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6737901 - 04/02/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Demotriton said: I used to grow mushrooms a year ago and posted on here. Now God has called me back here to finish what he started. Many people THINK they want to go to heaven. The problem is, they don't know what heaven is. The real truth is God gives us whatever we want when we leave this world. Problem is what WE want isn't the best thing for us. What GOD wants for us is the best thing for us.
Some of the choices we make on our own might make us happy for the short time we have left on this earth, but imagine living with our choices for an ETERNITY. Many things are fun for awhile but grow dull and boring later on.
The only way to truly be happy is complete surrender to God's will. Which brings another problem. What is God's will? God's will is for us to love him with all our heart, and to Love each other as we would ourselves.
God wants us to come to him and get to know and love him now more than ever before. He has worked countless miracles in my life and will in yours if you get to know the TRUE God.
God sent me here as his instrument to bring his word of TRUTH without any distortion. Everyone is looking for something, and that something is God, whether they know it or not. That's how God made us. Problem is so many people, including myself, have looked in the wrong places for him for far to long. Right now God is asking his children to come back to him one last time to receive his mercy.
God wishes to work in powerful ways these days, and I know signs & miracles will follow those who have faith.
Please respond and see what God will do!
You are just another crazy fuck who took some mind altering substance and thinks he knows something now. Fuck you douche.
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shizznit
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 146
Loc: Palatka FL
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: chemiKalz]
#6737961 - 04/02/07 11:55 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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mushrooms would have enlightened him to the truth of the matter. Not fucked him up through the mind control of religion.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: BlueCoyote]
#6738041 - 04/02/07 12:27 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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The love of g*d is not exclusive for Christians, not Jews, not Moslems, not Buddhist, not Hindus, not whatever.
Edited by BlueCoyote (04/02/07 12:33 PM)
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: BlueCoyote]
#6738590 - 04/02/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Domotriton said: I had many miraculous experiences in my life which gave me faith
So you have had miraculous experiences. So have I, except there is no indication that it was the same *god* as Christians/Jews worship. Even though weird stuff happens that one might attribute to a higher power or *god*, those events in no way imply that the Christian dogma is true.
How are you certain that it was not Allah or Zeus or your spirit guide or interdimensional extraterrestrials or even Satan that you encountered?
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: NiamhNyx]
#6738900 - 04/02/07 04:20 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said: Well Demo, I want to develop a humanized perception of you, hence the questions.
Feel free to contact him through private messages in order to ask questions about himself that are not pertinent to the ideas discussed in this thread.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Cracka_X]
#6738910 - 04/02/07 04:23 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cracka_X said: Honestly, I'm fed up with you....People like you taint religion!... You sound like a damn robot, be a fucking human being and be your damn self!... Instead, it looks like you've given up on life. You're so insecure and Your interpretation of Christ is your security blanket... You assholes preach at our college and just make a mockery of your religion....
Classic example of how not to approach discussion in this forum. If one feels the urge to explode and let the other know how one feels in this way, then please consider sending it to them through private messages or in OTD.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
#6738928 - 04/02/07 04:27 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: There are two other threads open right now, created by the same user, that essentially discuss the same exact topic - the particular user's beliefs. The topic for discussion is allowed in this forum, as long as the original poster realizes that their ideas presented will be openly discussed, but it is not necessary to create several threads unless it is genuinely a new philosophical or spiritual topic for discussion.
Consensus on how to approach such a situation was recently formed with user input, which is why this concern was not addressed earlier.
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