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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Diploid]
    #6677938 - 03/16/07 06:56 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

For LOVE! Love brings out the BEST in all of us, & God is LOVE. He's our REAL father! He's the BEST there is! Better than anything we could ever come up with on our own. If only we believed more in what he is telling us & less than what the world is telling us. What he is telling us is that he LOVES us, will forgive us for anything we have done no matter how bad. Because thats how good he is. All we have to do is believe that he is the way he really is which is a kind, loving & merciful God. It is the evil one that tricks us into thinking otherwise.

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OfflineGnosticWarrior
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6678017 - 03/16/07 07:25 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Everyone is looking for something, and that something is God, whether they know it or no

How do you know this? This is just your subjective view. Now it could be true or not. For you to come here and just say this God is real and you are here to proclaim him leaves me just a little bit unimpressed.

It all depends on what you mean by God I guess and I guess we would not be meaning the same thing.:grin: If you dropped this God word it would make things a little easier as far as knowing where you're really coming from. If I remember your other posts you seemed a little fundamentalist to me.




I view Taoism (Yin&Yang) as a true universal law.  So why wouldn't God have two opposing sides?  One static, intellect, cannot take phyical form.  The other changing, emotional, can take physical form.

Then replace the word God with Love. 

Quote:

Demotriton said:
Sorry I didn't get a chance to post on here till now. Before I answer I have just ONE question to ask everyone that posted. What is God's purpose for creating us.




God (Love) is static, is intellect, God(Love) set's the rules that the universe is governed by.  Scientist, just helped to explain what these rules are by conducting systematic trial and error experiments.  However, God(Love)cannot take a physical form.  Our souls collectively make up the emotional, side of God (Love).  We are God (Love) in physical form, here to experience and report our knowledge back to the intellectual side of God (Love).

Sorry, did not read your latest post before I typed this.

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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: GnosticWarrior]
    #6678046 - 03/16/07 07:35 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

I understand where you are coming from but,

God wants people to see him & love him as a person. He doesn't want people to think of him as an idea, thing, or someone we don't have access to. That's why he sent his Son Jesus. To show us he CAN take physical form among us, so that we can LOVE him. He had to become someone we could understand so that we can LOVE him. Jesus came as a representative of Our Father in heaven. It is through the life & teachings of Jesus that we can KNOW and have access to our Father. Just looke at what he did for US on the cross! Now THATS Love.

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OfflineGnosticWarrior
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6678117 - 03/16/07 08:05 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

I think both of our hearts are in the right place and our minds have distinguished that particular feeling, sensations in our bodies when you experience love. And I think this is due to shrooms too!

However, This thing about Jesus being the only Physcial manifestation of God I don't believe. I was raised Buddhist, don't know if you were raised Christian. Not saying that anything is wrong. But in my experience those who were raised believing in the Bible and the Dogma that comes about it have a hard time seeing eye to eye with me. From what I read on other threads and boards, the eastern cultures did not have a problem with Taoism, Buddhism, and Shinto beleifs co-existing together. I'm just saying we weren't persuaded or forced through fear to believe one way or the other.

But, on the other hand most of my intellectual beliefs in God where shaped by the teachings of Sylvia Browne so that takes off some creditability from me. I believe that I am just as much a part of God and his son as Jesus was. He was indeed a role model who led by example. The only difference Jesus and I might have, is our knowledge of God, our confidence in ourselves and God, and so he made better choices than I do.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6678213 - 03/16/07 08:34 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Hey buddy.

You haven't answered any of my questions that I have asked you in this thread, yet you continue to go on and on with more of your perspective.

This is a discussion-orientated forum - we are all interested in discussing each others point of view, not just yours. Did you miss my questions or are you avoiding them? :grin:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6678215 - 03/16/07 08:34 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Demotriton said:
I used to grow mushrooms a year ago and posted on here. Now God has called me back here to finish what he started. Many people THINK they want to go to heaven. The problem is, they don't know what heaven is. The real truth is God gives us whatever we want when we leave this world. Problem is what WE want isn't the best thing for us. What GOD wants for us is the best thing for us.

Some of the choices we make on our own might make us happy for the short time we have left on this earth, but imagine living with our choices for an ETERNITY. Many things are fun for awhile but grow dull and boring later on.

The only way to truly be happy is complete surrender to God's will. Which brings another problem. What is God's will? God's will is for us to love him with all our heart, and to Love each other as we would ourselves.

God wants us to come to him and get to know and love him now more than ever before. He has worked countless miracles in my life and will in yours if you get to know the TRUE God.

God sent me here as his instrument to bring his word of TRUTH without any distortion. Everyone is looking for something, and that something is God, whether they know it or not. That's how God made us. Problem is so many people, including myself, have looked in the wrong places for him for far to long. Right now God is asking his children to come back to him one last time to receive his mercy.

God wishes to work in powerful ways these days, and I know signs & miracles will follow those who have faith.

Please respond and see what God will do!





Based on your posting it sounds like you are saying God loves every single person who ever lived without exception. I have a few questions.

Does God love those He sends to hell?
What separates those who are sent to hell vs. those who are saved?
Is salvation a conditional proposition?
Did Jesus atone for those who spend an eternity in hell?
Millions have lived and died and never even heard anything about Jesus ever, what about them?
Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
    #6678220 - 03/16/07 08:35 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

God this is turning into a real can of worms here. :shocked:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineleery11
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6678446 - 03/16/07 09:40 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Demotriton said:


Please respond and see what God will do!



Absolutely. "Thy will be done."

I am not sure how much I could function with complete heaven in my life, rather it would be best in gradients, but I would definitely love to have more of the love I am having.... humans to resonate it with, and the eyes to take the opportunities as they come, and most certainly removing all doubts......

I like what I am seeing so far. The ability to feel connected enough to stop aside and weep like a widow.... but if I do weep, who will STAND INSIDE MY LOVE ? Maybe I have one...... I kind of want to send her back, because all MY will is up on a very high and holy goal, and it is confounding to have someone trying to pull me into her reality.....

so who do you say the true God is... when people say that they either say it because they don't like dogma at all, or they think a religion is absolutely right.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6678448 - 03/16/07 09:40 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Does God love those He sends to hell?
-first of all God sends NO ONE to hell. People choose hell because it appears more desirable to them than heaven. Some people think they will be more happy without God, which is what hell is, life without God.

What separates those who are sent to hell vs. those who are saved?
-Those that go to hell would rather live without God. Those saved can't live without God.

Is salvation a conditional proposition?
-God wants to save us, but we need to choose to come to HIM to be saved. By coming to him, we desire less of what we are and desire more of what he is, and ALLOW him to transform us, to become more like him.

Did Jesus atone for those who spend an eternity in hell?
-Yes, they just refused his mercy

Millions have lived and died and never even heard anything about Jesus ever, what about them?
-The name of Jesus is about a God who LOVES & forgives his children & will do anything for them so long as we TRUST him, and allow him to act. If they believe God is like this, they believe in the TRUE God revealed by Christ Jesus

Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?
-Yes

You assert a "real truth", but through what process can it be determined to actually be the "real truth" of the matter? I do not understand this.
-some people are mislead into believing something that isn't true

Also, how do we know what "g*d" wants for us?
-by asking him

I will simply ask for substantiation of this. You are stating that there is only one path and that it is the path you are proposing for us. No other path can offer true happiness?
-Many paths lead to God, salvation thru Christ Jesus is the easiest way as it is a direct path to God

How are you distinguishing from false happiness and true happiness, by the way?
-false happiness only lasts awhile, true happiness lasts forever
How do you determine the difference?
-True happiness can only be found in God. We must find God to find true happiness. To Find God we must seek him for what he truly is, which is explained by Christ Jesus. Jesus is the way to Heaven, the way to our Father.

Yes, that is another problem. What is "g*d's" will?
-God's will is for us to Love him with all our heart & to Love each other
You answer your own question right there - but let's ask this: How did you become aware of "g*d's" will, precisely?
-The bible tells us God's will
How could we possibly know "g*d's" will?
-By reading his word

Do you work on commission?
I work for the Glory of God

Hey buddy. You do not know who I am. Perhaps you could refrain from telling me who I am and what I am looking for? Sort of presumptuous of you, don't you think?
-God knows who we all are

No he isn't. You're asking us. There is a difference. Do you not discern that difference?
-He's asking me to ask you, God works through people

Do you want to learn something about faith? Faith follows experience - not the other way around. Your preaching is not going to serve as grounds for faith in others, nor should it compel us down such a path.
-God gives faith to those who seek it from him. Ask God sincerely for faith in what I am saying is true & he will give to you, you may have to ask him many times though, be patient he always responds to those who ask him, just be persistent.

so who do you say the true God is... when people say that they either say it because they don't like dogma at all, or they think a religion is absolutely right.
-I say God is who is because I am in a relationship with him everyday. He speaks to me & I to him. He tells me who he is and the bible verifies what he is telling me is true. As his word cannot condradict the bible.

Edited by Demotriton (03/16/07 09:45 PM)

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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6678507 - 03/16/07 10:03 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

I'm usually a very happy person, and have not accepted God at all. I'm certainly not in hell. In fact i consider the whole god concept to be something erroneous that was ingrained in the human mind since the spawning of mankind on this planet.

The moment of doubt that Jesus had on the cross seems to me like what alcoholics refer to as a moment of painful clarity. Submitting blindly and blissing out on the God concept can be mighty comforting and pleasurable, but usually leaves little room for clear awareness and insight IMO.

True happiness can never come from outside source, but is discovered as inherent at the deepest levels of our living experience.

You said that you don't mind having your views challenged, so please don't be offended or angered by my post. If you truly feel you have found your path then i rejoice for you, and am happy that you have found what it is that you need. :heart:


--------------------

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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
    #6678558 - 03/16/07 10:16 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

True happiness can never come from outside source, but is discovered as inherent at the deepest levels of our living experience

This is true, I being a Christian have discovered the realization of Christ Jesus living inside me, and God our father living within him. My happiness comes from God living within me.
-God wants us to see his Love within us, as coming from him, and not ourselves. HE created us to LOVE him, not view his love as inner peace for us to enjoy all for ourselves or those around us.

He wants us to Love HIM.

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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6678683 - 03/16/07 10:58 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Reply - Since we both agree the Bible is the Word of God at least we have a common ground for doctrine.

Q.Does God love those He sends to hell?
A.-first of all God sends NO ONE to hell. People choose hell because it appears more desirable to them than heaven. Some people think they will be more happy without God, which is what hell is, life without God.


Reply - If God loved someone He would love them and not send them to hell. Why would God, who knows all events, see millions not choosing Him, being headed for hell, and yet He creates them knowing their end? Why not just not allow them to come into existence in the first place? Scripture asserts all events are ordained by God to come to pass, and nothing happens by chance. God does not merely see future possible events, but actually ordains all events according to His own will.

Q.What separates those who are sent to hell vs. those who are saved?
A.-Those that go to hell would rather live without God. Those saved can't live without God.


Reply - Christ's atoning work and righteousness is what separates the lost from the damned. Nothing sinners do can be pleasing to God. But despite this, God has chosen a people to be His, and had Christ atone for them. It is all a free gift from above, for those He has chosen.

Q.Is salvation a conditional proposition?
A.-God wants to save us, but we need to choose to come to HIM to be saved. By coming to him, we desire less of what we are and desire more of what he is, and ALLOW him to transform us, to become more like him.


Reply - Your God is not in scripture. God is not getting frustrated by men who won't come to Him. Each and every one for whom God intends to save will be saved, since He has ordained it to be. Your scheme is saying the men have an inherent ability to be pleasing to God (ex. allowing to be transformed), and this meritorious action combined with grace brings someone into salvation. You have reason to boast, your action of acceptance is what separates you from a lost person. Notice how Christ's atonement alone ceases to be the ground of salvation, but personal merit plus Christ's atonement is the ground. You are ignorant of God's righteousness which demands perfection. Works of sinners CAN NOT enter into salvation in any way shape or form. To believe otherwise is to deny the gospel entirely.

Man is dead in sin, and is incapable, in his own power, or of his own will, to do ANYTHING pleasing to God. It is God who must do everything, start to finish for the sinner.

Q.Did Jesus atone for those who spend an eternity in hell?
A.-Yes, they just refused his mercy


Reply - If a person's sin is atoned for then the person is justified. How can God exact double punishment for the same sin (once on Christ, and once on the sinner)? Mercy is given despite what a person does not because what a person does, it is the difference between salvation by works vs. salvation by grace. Your "gospel" is salvation by works.

Q.Millions have lived and died and never even heard anything about Jesus ever, what about them?
A.-The name of Jesus is about a God who LOVES & forgives his children & will do anything for them so long as we TRUST him, and allow him to act. If they believe God is like this, they believe in the TRUE God revealed by Christ Jesus


Reply - Scripture gives no example of this. The gospel MUST be preached and believed with power of the Spirit applying it in order for conversion to happen. It is the means by which salvation happens.

Q.I will simply ask for substantiation of this. You are stating that there is only one path and that it is the path you are proposing for us. No other path can offer true happiness?
A.-Many paths lead to God, salvation thru Christ Jesus is the easiest way as it is a direct path to God


Reply - Scripture us VERY clear on this, there is only ONE narrow path, Jesus Christ.


The doctrines you are declaring are opposed to the true gospel.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6678736 - 03/16/07 11:19 PM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Demotriton said:
Sorry I didn't get a chance to post on here till now. Before I answer I have just ONE question to ask everyone that posted. What is God's purpose for creating us.




Dude, before you proceed, stop and check your presumption at the Presumption Desk. Firstly, you seem to be assuming that YOU are the only Christian on this forum. Secondly, you are probably dismissing anyone else who claims to be a Christian here, because after all, what kind of Christian would hang around with all these Pagans and sorcerers (inasmuch as Pharmakeia means both drugs and sorcery)? Meanwhile, your model of being a Christian derives chiefly from the command to spread the Gospel and hence you have an evangelical bent.

Clue: Many people in this world live according to "The Way," whether they call themselves Christians or not. The first Christians didn't call themselves Christians - they were Jews (for the most part) who called themselves followers of "The Way." The Way had not yet become a cult of Jesus! Jesus/Iesus/Issa/Y'shua taught/manifested/demonstrated/epitomized The Way to such an extent that the saying was later written about Him that "I am the way, the truth and the life...." Grammatically speaking, saying 'I AM IS the way...,' would have better preserved the Reality because people would have been more likely to understand The Way as The Way of Being that it is intended to be rather than absurdly believing that one has to emulate the behaviors of a 1st century Judean peasant. "I AM" was the Name of Deity revealed to Moses from the OT writings. Being in The Way, is Being in the Logos and Being motivated by the Logos. It is "being in Christ" which a state of Being - a Whole or Holy condition of attunement to Reality that is not limited by one's egocentric concerns of mind and body.

By this understanding, Chinese Taoists are living in The Way (since Tao means The Way), but Buddhists also have their terms for the condition, as do Muslims in their true 'submission' to God (Islam means submission). Jews have their terms for it and so do others. 'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet' (as it is still a rose, regardless of what language it is called by). Why then do evangelical Christians or fundamentalist Christians wrongly believe that it is a number of mental contructs (doctrines) that makes a Christian a Christian, and not their state of Being in The Way? If members of every faith saw the Truth in this Way, there would be no religious wars. A Christian is a Universal Human in my understanding, not a robot brainwashed by the invented doctrines of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers.

Nobody knows what the 'teleology' (purpose) is for the cosmos, or for humankind's place in it. Any assertion to the contrary is absurd. The Bible has lots of elements in it, including spiritual insight, but also includes heinous crimes from incest to genocide. It is a collection of midrash, metaphor, mythology and metaphysics, but it was all penned by the hands of men (and women in Deutero-Isaiah!). There is historical and geographical error, there is blatent plagerism and obvious contradiction. If one really wants to absolutize a book, then one becomes a Muslim.

Are you prepared to throw doctrine off like a coat on a hot day in the Sun and simply bask in the Sun's Light? It's the Light that is pre-eminently Real, not the intellectual description of it.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineMr_Prickles
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
    #6678937 - 03/17/07 12:38 AM (17 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

\You said that you don't mind having your views challenged, so please don't be offended or angered by my post. If you truly feel you have found your path then i rejoice for you, and am happy that you have found what it is that you need. :heart:




I said I don't mind having my views challenged, but I don't think he did. :tongue: Either way I like where this thread has been and is going, hopefully neither he nor anyone else will get offended and start a flame war like what happens in 90% of these type of posts that I've seen.  So far we've all played nicely! :thumbup:


--------------------
Soon you will see. All of your fears will pass away.

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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6679417 - 03/17/07 07:14 AM (17 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Demotriton said:
True happiness can never come from outside source, but is discovered as inherent at the deepest levels of our living experience

This is true, I being a Christian have discovered the realization of Christ Jesus living inside me, and God our father living within him. My happiness comes from God living within me.
-God wants us to see his Love within us, as coming from him, and not ourselves. HE created us to LOVE him, not view his love as inner peace for us to enjoy all for ourselves or those around us.

He wants us to Love HIM.




I don't see why God would want us to love 'him'. For me, love is just the sincere wish for others to be happy. If God is like an unhappy child that craves love and attention, then that does'nt seem like a very enlightened deity. Id love him all the same though, since i sincerely wish for everyone who is suffering to find true peace and happiness. But loving a seemingly imaginary friend for grownups, just becuase some book that was written by human beings says so seems a little naive.


--------------------

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OfflineDemotriton
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Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Sinbad]
    #6680328 - 03/17/07 02:06 PM (17 years, 6 days ago)

Reply - If God loved someone He would love them and not send them to hell. Why would God, who knows all events, see millions not choosing Him, being headed for hell, and yet He creates them knowing their end? Why not just not allow them to come into existence in the first place? Scripture asserts all events are ordained by God to come to pass, and nothing happens by chance. God does not merely see future possible events, but actually ordains all events according to His own will.

Love cannot exist without freedom of choice. I will tell you a secret, when someone chooses Hell, they separate themselves from God, since God is all that exists, they no longer exist, if they don't exist than their existence in the first place was an illusion, it was if they never existed, God does create everything from nothing, some nothing manifests into something, some nothing stays nothing, so it was never created, it only appeared to exist to those that exist. Those that exist are joined to the True God by faith. Jesus came so that we might know who the true God is.

Reply - Your God is not in scripture. God is not getting frustrated by men who won't come to Him.

I NEVER said God gets frustrated. Although I admit I sometimes get frustrated trying to speak God's truth to unbelievers. For that I repent. I am NO better than anyone here, I do my best to allow God's words to come through me.

Each and every one for whom God intends to save will be saved, since He has ordained it to be. Your scheme is saying the men have an inherent ability to be pleasing to God (ex. allowing to be transformed), and this meritorious action combined with grace brings someone into salvation.

For one thing this has nothing to do with me, I make mistakes trying to proclaim God's word, but the fact I make mistakes has nothing to do with the TRUTH that JESUS is our ONLY means of salvation. All who have faith in JESUS will be saved, if you want to be saved come to JESUS, repent of your sins, and ask him to enter your life, do this every day until he comes & you will be saved.

You have reason to boast, your action of acceptance is what separates you from a lost person. 

I have no reason to boast of myself only what JESUS has done for me.

Notice how Christ's atonement alone ceases to be the ground of salvation, but personal merit plus Christ's atonement is the ground. You are ignorant of God's righteousness which demands perfection. Works of sinners CAN NOT enter into salvation in any way shape or form. To believe otherwise is to deny the gospel entirely.

Romans 3:23 For ALL have sinned & fall short of the Glory of God.
What personal merit could we possibly have? when it is impossible for men to be saved without God. Together with God we can be saved, but first we must deny our own works, and accept God's works into our life.

Reply - If a person's sin is atoned for then the person is justified. How can God exact double punishment for the same sin (once on Christ, and once on the sinner)? Mercy is given despite what a person does not because what a person does, it is the difference between salvation by works vs. salvation by grace. Your "gospel" is salvation by works.

James 2:18 Nevertheless a certain one will say "you have faith & I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, & I will show you my FAITH BY MY WORKS."
-good works is a SIGN of faith

The doctrines you are declaring are opposed to the true gospel. :frown:

What exactly are you trying to do my brother? Are your intentions to PROVE me wrong & you right? or to help others find salvation.? I posted here to bring the truth of salvation to others, if only we would care more about others salvation rather than trying to say I'm right your wrong, it looks to me like we are saying the same truths but lets try & match our intentions with God's and not our own.

Dude, before you proceed, stop and check your presumption at the Presumption Desk. Firstly, you seem to be assuming that YOU are the only Christian on this forum. Secondly, you....

Something I should testify is, God often speaks to me when I read the bible, showing me the meaning he wants me to get out of scripture, he has showed me how he creates out of nothing, he has told me his will and much of his plan for salvation. Last night after I posted on here, he revealed himself to me like he never has before, he says there isn't enough time for conversion just by me speaking his word, he wants to work miracles so that you may believe that JESUS! JESUS! JESUS is THE SON OF GOD. ONLY  THROUGH HIM CAN ANYONE EVER HAVE SALVATION. The explanation of this is FAR to complicated for our mortal minds to understand, he has shown me things which can not be expressed in any words here on earth. He has SHOWN me things which would bring the PROUDEST to shame. PLEASE I want all of you to be brought into existence. LOVE JESUS come to JESUS, can it be any more simple than that? Who knows more us or God? Please TRUST God and not yourselves. I speak for God, HE asked me to come on here and speak the truth he spoke to me. this was HIS idea, not mine. You should be more focused on JESUS which is where the real truth is coming from, instead of focusing on disproving his servants. The world as we know it WILL undergo a radical transformation in a VERY short period of time. We do not have time to dispute over the truth. Please turn to JESUS, REPENT, all of us are sinners, including myself, turn to JESUS, I am proclaiming HIS name, HIS works, forget about me, listen to JESUS. The only reason JESUS sent me here to speak his name, is because many here do not believe in him, so he sent me as to try and bring you to him. Accept JESUS as your savior and you WILL understand what JESUS is trying to say through me.

I may not be the only christian here, but I belong to JESUS and not to myself.

Edited by Demotriton (03/17/07 02:25 PM)

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Offlinefivepointer
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Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6680647 - 03/17/07 03:37 PM (17 years, 6 days ago)

fivepointer - If God loved someone He would love them and not send them to hell. Why would God, who knows all events, see millions not choosing Him, being headed for hell, and yet He creates them knowing their end? Why not just not allow them to come into existence in the first place? Scripture asserts all events are ordained by God to come to pass, and nothing happens by chance. God does not merely see future possible events, but actually ordains all events according to His own will.

Demotriton - Love cannot exist without freedom of choice. I will tell you a secret, when someone chooses Hell, they separate themselves from God, since God is all that exists, they no longer exist, if they don't exist than their existence in the first place was an illusion, it was if they never existed, God does create everything from nothing, some nothing manifests into something, some nothing stays nothing, so it was never created, it only appeared to exist to those that exist. Those that exist are joined to the True God by faith. Jesus came so that we might know who the true God is.


fivepointer reply - Thankfully God changes the hearts of Fallen men and saves them.  The notion of absolute free will is an old heresy called Pelagianism.  Fallen man has no freedom of choice, his will is bound by Satan, and his mind blind to spiritual truth.  You doctrine denies original sin and the Fall and its effects on man.  Men are already born condemned and separated, they do not "choose" this, this is the state they are in due to original sin.  No choice is required, man is born spiritually dead.
Do you believe that the unconverted will spend an eternity under God's wrath, or that they cease to exist?


fivepointer - Each and every one for whom God intends to save will be saved, since He has ordained it to be. Your scheme is saying the men have an inherent ability to be pleasing to God (ex. allowing to be transformed), and this meritorious action combined with grace brings someone into salvation.

Demotriton - For one thing this has nothing to do with me, I make mistakes trying to proclaim God's word, but the fact I make mistakes has nothing to do with the TRUTH that JESUS is our ONLY means of salvation. All who have faith in JESUS will be saved, if you want to be saved come to JESUS, repent of your sins, and ask him to enter your life, do this every day until he comes & you will be saved.


fivepointer reply - Faith in which "Jesus"? Many abound today.  The Arminian one? the Morman one? the Roman Catholic one?  The Gnostic one? All describe a different "Jesus" and God.  You say one has to "come to JESUS, repent of your sins, and ask him to enter your life, do this every day until he comes", isn't this salvation by your own efforts? Isn't salvation about belief of the gospel, which is by the imputed righteousness of Christ, apart from personal efforts?


fivepointer - You have reason to boast, your action of acceptance is what separates you from a lost person.

Demotriton - I have no reason to boast of myself only what JESUS has done for me.


fivepointer reply - But you believe the reason that Jesus did something for you was that you met the conditions required.  Only those who come with nothing get saved, not those who can meet conditions.

fivepointer - Notice how Christ's atonement alone ceases to be the ground of salvation, but personal merit plus Christ's atonement is the ground. You are ignorant of God's righteousness which demands perfection. Works of sinners CAN NOT enter into salvation in any way shape or form. To believe otherwise is to deny the gospel entirely.

Demotriton  - Romans 3:23 For ALL have sinned & fall short of the Glory of God.
What personal merit could we possibly have? when it is impossible for men to be saved without God. Together with God we can be saved, but first we must deny our own works, and accept God's works into our life.


fivepointer reply - You say "Together with God" we can be saved.  This is the scheme of cooperative salvation, which is denial of salvation by grace, and a denial of the gospel.

fivepointer - If a person's sin is atoned for then the person is justified. How can God exact double punishment for the same sin (once on Christ, and once on the sinner)? Mercy is given despite what a person does not because what a person does, it is the difference between salvation by works vs. salvation by grace. Your "gospel" is salvation by works.

Demotriton - James 2:18 Nevertheless a certain one will say "you have faith & I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, & I will show you my FAITH BY MY WORKS."
-good works is a SIGN of faith


fivepointer reply - True, good works are an evidence of salvation.  But the faith itself also is an evidence, NOT A CAUSE, of salvation.  The cause is the grace of God.

The doctrines you are declaring are opposed to the true gospel. :frown:

Demotriton - What exactly are you trying to do my brother? Are your intentions to PROVE me wrong & you right? or to help others find salvation.? I posted here to bring the truth of salvation to others, if only we would care more about others salvation rather than trying to say I'm right your wrong, it looks to me like we are saying the same truths but lets try & match our intentions with God's and not our own.


fivepointer reply - I am saying your "Jesus" is different from the one I believe in.  The doctrines you are bringing are contrary to the true gospel.

Another poster - Dude, before you proceed, stop and check your presumption at the Presumption Desk. Firstly, you seem to be assuming that YOU are the only Christian on this forum. Secondly, you....

Demotriton - Something I should testify is, God often speaks to me when I read the bible, showing me the meaning he wants me to get out of scripture, he has showed me how he creates out of nothing, he has told me his will and much of his plan for salvation. Last night after I posted on here, he revealed himself to me like he never has before, he says there isn't enough time for conversion just by me speaking his word, he wants to work miracles so that you may believe that JESUS! JESUS! JESUS is THE SON OF GOD. ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN ANYONE EVER HAVE SALVATION. The explanation of this is FAR to complicated for our mortal minds to understand, he has shown me things which can not be expressed in any words here on earth. He has SHOWN me things which would bring the PROUDEST to shame. PLEASE I want all of you to be brought into existence. LOVE JESUS come to JESUS, can it be any more simple than that? Who knows more us or God? Please TRUST God and not yourselves. I speak for God, HE asked me to come on here and speak the truth he spoke to me. this was HIS idea, not mine. You should be more focused on JESUS which is where the real truth is coming from, instead of focusing on disproving his servants. The world as we know it WILL undergo a radical transformation in a VERY short period of time. We do not have time to dispute over the truth. Please turn to JESUS, REPENT, all of us are sinners, including myself, turn to JESUS, I am proclaiming HIS name, HIS works, forget about me, listen to JESUS. The only reason JESUS sent me here to speak his name, is because many here do not believe in him, so he sent me as to try and bring you to him. Accept JESUS as your savior and you WILL understand what JESUS is trying to say through me.

I may not be the only christian here, but I belong to JESUS and not to myself.


fivepointer reply - You say "ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN ANYONE EVER HAVE SALVATION", yet you stated earlier that there are many paths to God, so which is it?  You say God speaks to you, how does this happen, do you hear a voice?  If you can't show from the scriptures a doctrine, then how do I know what you are saying is true?  How do I know that "world as we know it WILL undergo a radical transformation in a VERY short period of time"? This may just be your imagination you have no scripture to back it up.

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OfflineDemotriton
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Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 408
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: fivepointer]
    #6681283 - 03/17/07 06:37 PM (17 years, 6 days ago)

Existing with God is eternal life (existence)
Living without God is eternal death (nonexistence) example:

Life without God
I don't remember existing <-birth----I exist---death-> I forgot I existed
Did I exist?

Life with God
I don't remember existing <-birth----I exist--------> I continue to exist after I leave the earth and remember existing on earth

I do exist

Us ASKING Jesus to come into our lives is all the effort we put forth, it is Christ Jesus that does the saving, not us.

Jesus did something for me, because, I repented of my ways, and accepted his ways

I meant "Together with God" we can be saved as we need to be in a RELATIONSHIP with God. This is a daily process, talking to him, getting to know him, sharing our feelings with him. The more we give ourselves to him, he gives disproportionately more of him to us.

fivepointer reply - I am saying your "Jesus" is different from the one I believe in. The doctrines you are bringing are contrary to the true gospel.

Do you have the spirit of Christ Jesus within you fivepointer? Do you not know that it is Christ Jesus that speaks through me? Why do you doubt my love? Do you want it?

fivepointer reply - You say "ONLY THROUGH HIM CAN ANYONE EVER HAVE SALVATION", yet you stated earlier that there are many paths to God, so which is it? You say God speaks to you, how does this happen, do you hear a voice? If you can't show from the scriptures a doctrine, then how do I know what you are saying is true? How do I know that "world as we know it WILL undergo a radical transformation in a VERY short period of time"? This may just be your imagination you have no scripture to back it up.

Let me tell you a story. When I was baptized by the Holy Spirit I was praying to "God" Over the past year many things have happened, that have LEAD me closer to Jesus. Twice in the adoration chapel while praying Jesus came out of the Eucharist and gave me a hug, I couldn't see him with my eyes but I saw him with my heart. I saw God the father within him. He showed me God the father at other times in a big way, but I had to look through Jesus in order to see the father. I seeked the truth & found God, when I found God he lead me to his son Jesus, when I found Jesus, I found salvation.

SALVATION comes through Christ Jesus. He is the gateway to Heaven that God left on this earth for us to find. Find Jesus and you find heaven, even hear on earth.

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OfflineDemotriton
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Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 408
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6681291 - 03/17/07 06:38 PM (17 years, 6 days ago)

By the way I know you who are being saved are reading this even though you are not posting.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Want to go to heaven? God can Help [Re: Demotriton]
    #6681299 - 03/17/07 06:41 PM (17 years, 6 days ago)

:satansmoking:
That's what you think.
I'm afraid I've already gotten to them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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