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Brainiac
Rogue Scientist



Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
Loc: 與您的女朋
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Is this web site Illegal?
#6664582 - 03/13/07 12:35 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was talking to one of my friends, who doesn't kown I come here .They where saying drug sites like this is illegal .How could this be?
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Fair is Fair
Edited by Brainiac (03/13/07 12:43 PM)
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SummerDaisies
Out of Retirement



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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Brainiac]
#6664652 - 03/13/07 12:51 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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nothing about this is illeGAL
-------------------- [quote]Abuse said: summerfaggot is one of the biggest cunts on this site.[/quote]
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Brainiac]
#6664709 - 03/13/07 01:05 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are your friends lawyers? Either way, ask them what's illegal about it, and what law is broken, and for a case example of it being tested in court.
Chances are they just "heard it from some dude who knew what he was talking about. It's like... conspiracy to like... commit a crime or something".
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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Le_Canard
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Brainiac]
#6667606 - 03/14/07 02:56 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm sure LEO is aware of the Shroomery, but there's little they do because just talking about drugs isn't illegal (not that they're dying to shut this place down). What got Overgrow shut down was the fact that they sold weed seeds, as I understand it.
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despisedicon
Stranger

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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Le_Canard]
#6667626 - 03/14/07 03:13 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is another pretty large cannabis growing forum that sells seeds. I won't state the address because that's posting a source. They have many sponsor ads similar to this site where you can purchase marijuana seeds. Maybe the forum itself doesn't sell the seeds, but you'd have to be blind not to see the ads on every page. The main seed company has a link to the forum that states,"check out our growing forum". I don't get it.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Brainiac]
#6667684 - 03/14/07 04:56 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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> Is this web site Illegal?
No, it is not illegal. (If it were, I wouldn't be an admin here!) We are an information portal, not much different than your local library. As such, what we publish is protected by the US Constitution's 1st Amendment. We do not allow minors to join the site. We do not sell drugs, legal or illegal, nor do we allow people to post sources for illegal drugs. The site has been reviewed by two different lawyers and been given a clean bill of health by both. It may be illegal for you to visit the site, depending upon where you live, but the site itself, under US law, is not illegal.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Seuss]
#6667812 - 03/14/07 06:47 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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i completely disagree, and the fix to the problem would be so easy but nobody wants to listen to me or they are in denial or something.
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#6667977 - 03/14/07 08:54 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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> i completely disagree
It is certainly your right to disagree.
> but nobody wants to listen to me
Perhaps it is the lack of apparent education based upon posting style: grammar mistakes, lack of capitalization, and very little punctuation.
> or they are in denial or something.
Sorry, but I will trust the guys with the law diploma hanging on their wall when it comes to matters of law.
By all means, post what you would do differently...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Seuss]
#6671141 - 03/14/07 11:38 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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ill give a summary because the below thread might be confussing to some.
basicly, "Telling" someone to commit a crime IS a Crime. the law doesn't care if your ignorant or not.
and i see it happen all over the shroomery, even from mods.
its one thing to explain how to grow but i see people outright saying you need to put your shrooms here, do this or that and then eat your mushrooms ect......
i don't really care what any lawyers say because im sure this website is...or one day will send alot of people to court and I wonder how many people will be calling lawyers?(point is money is money and thats what its all about)
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6500210#6500210
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#6671443 - 03/15/07 01:56 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't mean to suggest that the initial point you made is in any way invalid, but...
you're also suggesting that the lawyers are lying for the purpose of setting their clients up to be charged with a crime, with intent of representing the client in the ensuing court case? (Just trying to be clear, forgive me if that's not what you meant to imply).
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Koala Koolio]
#6671482 - 03/15/07 02:22 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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im saying never trust a lawyer, unless they point out their case in a lawbook. and a lawyer couldn't do that if you asked them to tell us why the shroomery is legal...there are so many angles to it....but i feel i found an angle that suggests otherwise...
secondly, they looked at what this site is aimed at doing(aka guides, teks, walkthroughs)...not what the users on the site are doing(telling people to actually do the walkthroughs and teks aka commit crimes)...
as i said before ignorance doesn't protect you if you tell someone unknowning to committ a crime.
and honestly why even take the chance? is it really that hard to reword things? I mean people do the foaf bullshit without anyone even telling them too lol
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Edited by makaveli8x8 (03/15/07 02:38 AM)
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dedjam
Electro Penguin




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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#6671821 - 03/15/07 08:07 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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This website does not violate any laws under the US penal code or common law code.
If you could point out what laws, specifically you think are being broke, maybe someone could put your fears at rest. Honestly, it sounds as if you dont understand much about the law, and you just THINK it should all be illegal. Have you been to law school?
Also, do you have any past case law that shows websites like this have been prosecuted for giving out information? Do you have any information on the US government going after people for posting on forums similar to this?
I THINK alot of things are illegal, but then I check the books, study the case law, and realize there is actually alot that can be done under the law that people tend to immediately think is illegal.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: dedjam]
#6671877 - 03/15/07 08:40 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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internet = is a public place aka we are essentially all huddled around a camp fire.
now if john doe tells mr. penguin to eat a pound of shrooms and rob a bank and mr. penquin does i think john doe is gunna be in some trouble.
if thats hard to understand here is another.
john doe watch's billy rape a little girl...billy gets caught and the little girl says john doe knew it happened.
yes, i thought this through and i didn't pull this idea out of my ass like you all think.
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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dedjam
Electro Penguin




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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#6671911 - 03/15/07 08:54 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: internet = is a public place aka we are essentially all huddled around a camp fire.
now if john doe tells mr. penguin to eat a pound of shrooms and rob a bank and mr. penquin does i think john doe is gunna be in some trouble.
if thats hard to understand here is another.
john doe watch's billy rape a little girl...billy gets caught and the little girl says john doe knew it happened.
yes, i thought this through and i didn't pull this idea out of my ass like you all think.
First, you realize that your two examples are no where near legally the same, correct? Which makes it even harder to take you seriously.
First example, john doe isnt going to be prosecuted for anything. I sit around and talk about committing crimes all the time, doesnt mean I have intent. I can tell people to commit a crime, doesnt mean I am responsible for thier actions. Are you talking about conspiracy to commit a crime here? Do you understand what it takes to fully prosecute and actually get a guily verdict in a conspiracy case?
Using your examples, are you asserting that watching a little girl get raped, and talking around a campfire about raping someone are one in the same?
I asked for a law, or cases. Can you not back up your assertions?
Yes, I think you are pulling it all our of your ass, because when asked to back up anything you say, you just pull more out of your ass instead.
No offence, and I understand the concern, but before you start saying what is legal and what is illegal, maybe you should get a better understand of the law.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: dedjam]
#6672276 - 03/15/07 10:59 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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as for my two examples....change the second one to say "he told him to rape the little girl" sorry for not being exact.
or you could change the first one to say he told him to rob the back and then watched. w/e
my point is you get my point now i hope reguarding my examples....
next, you talk about committing crimes, but do you do it infront of cops? your ass would get locked up(i don't think you have to have intent because its a cops job to PREVENT crimes as well, and in regards to the shroomery i think intent would be easily spotted with pictures)...if you feel otherwise how about you show proof as to why?
as for telling people to committ a crime, if a father tells his son to committ a crime is he not guilty the father? <--the is a perfect example but incase your sneaky.....there very well could be AND HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE minors on these boards!!! <---ignorance is not an excape goat althow i don't have a link to this ignorance law.
as for conspiracy to commit that is "Part" of what im talking about as for proving it....well it will be very easy seeing how its all printable with joe saying this and that, with pictures and ip addys ect.
Joe says "im going to grow mushrooms" <--intent/conspiracy to committ
johnny says "ok you grow mushrooms son, now put spores in jar, when it turns white fruit and then YOU EAT THEM AND GO SNOW BOARDING AND SKY DIVING AT YOUR PEAK" <---this im not sure what crime to call it but im pretty sure it is one.
my example, what im saying is that someone who "knows about a crime" is just as quilty as one who committs it....i learned that shit growing up and see it on tv all the time "law and order" "cops" ect.
i think i could back up my cases but im far to lazy too....i wrote what i wrote to help the community and hopefully change some policys to protect it.......ive done my best to "explain" what i feel what is happening
don't forget laws get twisted by cops, and once it hits the courtroom it might not matter if its a law or not....changing this policy could help prevent the courtroom.
p.s. if you care about the shroomery and the members, prove me wrong with laws and cases....ive done my best to explain....so maybe someone can help me out and do a little leg work on the law books....its the only way anyone will take this serious is with an excerpt from a book.....
i don't know what the crime would be called i just know how to explain it....conspiracy to commit is close thow.
only thing i can think of offhand would maybe be "aiding and abedding a crime"
p.s. something i just thought of reguarding talking about crimes is that people are saying they DID do it (again this is only half of my point however)....if you tell a cop you DID a crime he will lock you up for it.
an example is
joe "i grow"<--he admits to doing the crime
john "ok grow and eat" <--knows he commited and helps to finish the crime
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Edited by makaveli8x8 (03/15/07 11:10 AM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#6672641 - 03/15/07 12:33 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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> p.s. if you care about the shroomery and the members, prove me wrong with laws and cases....
When it comes to the something this important, we don't trust somebody like me, a non-lawyer, to come up with examples... instead, we hire professional, board certified lawyers, and we pay them a lot of money to ensure that we are legal. In fact, we didn't trust just one lawyer, so we paid for another lawyer as well, just in case the first missed something, or had a different opinion. Although it didn't cross our mind, having both helps cover the unethical angle you brought up as well.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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makaveli8x8
Stranger


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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Seuss]
#6672712 - 03/15/07 12:50 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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i understood everything except this quote
"Although it didn't cross our mind, having both helps cover the unethical angle you brought up as well. "
are you saying you brought up this specific question with the lawyers when they reviewed this site?
if so, does the legality of it cover just the website, or all the members as well?
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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ninfan77
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#6676989 - 03/16/07 01:52 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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i'd say each member is responsible for what they post. E.g. dont go posting pics of your grow and you together.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: ninfan77]
#6679319 - 03/17/07 03:59 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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well thats kinda what i took from what he said the shroomery is legal aka the shroomery is just the camp grounds
however everyone on it is fucked.
my main question now is if someone helps another person and unknowning helps them commit a crime by telling them to do such a thing aka is this a crime for the members?
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#6680576 - 03/17/07 03:14 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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It takes two things to get a conspiracy charge. Knowledge of the crime and one act in furtherance of the crime.
The "one act" can be almost anything, including giving advice. So it would be wise to not get involved with anything that sounds illegal. However almost everything on this site is just about general growing techniques for medicinal shrooms. Nothing illegal about that.
-FF
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strangladesh
masterOFpuppets



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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: fastfred]
#6680845 - 03/17/07 04:34 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have to assume people posting pictures are out of this country.
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djnoktirnal
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#6681365 - 03/17/07 07:09 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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the post was way too long to quote, but i have told cops, and superiors when i was in the military, of crimes i have committed. I have never been arrested or in any legal trouble. Cops don't care what you tell them you did in the past. Unless that happens to be rape or murder or some other violent act. Police need proof to arrest you, and they have to be within the statute of limitations for whatever law you broke. In most cases if you tell a cop or anyone in authority to arrest you that you broke some law in the past, they will only tell you not to do it again... if the do anything at all.
-------------------- WWJDWWMD's? What Would Jesus Do With Weapons of Mass Destruction?
 
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Koala Koolio
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: djnoktirnal]
#6682560 - 03/18/07 03:07 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you want to keep yourself completely safe, you don't do anything that would jeopardize your security. This means no posting of things you've done, plan to do, pictures, etc. And also, apparently not helping someone who has shown the intention of commiting a crime, or suggesting that they do so, though providing 'as-is' information itself should be okay. Right?
If you simply want to feel safe (and at least at this point in time, for all practical purposes be safe), avoid posting pictures of pounds of substances, hundreds of pills, a dozen sheets of blotter, etc. (People do this regularly, though). Don't stand out above the crowd, use proxies/tor. Convince yourself that there is security in being in the masses of people here, with an administration that has no intention of revealing personal information, but makes absolutely no promise that they won't do so.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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Koala Koolio
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Koala Koolio]
#6683859 - 03/18/07 02:22 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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You know, as long as people are posting pictures like this:


The rest of us have nothing to worry about. It's like the canary miners would take into the mines to see if there was a fatal amount of gas present. Bird dies first.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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Individual
Bass Addict



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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Koala Koolio]
#6691545 - 03/20/07 01:45 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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If we're telling someone to commit a crime, we try to do as wisely as we can, so people wouldn't have to suffer under consequences of unawareness.
-------------------- THE PHILOSOPHY OF LIBERTY <---
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Koala Koolio
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Individual]
#6692505 - 03/20/07 06:50 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Right. A morally sound argument, to me, and most here. But not legally, perhaps.
To me, there are certain laws which we perhaps step over that makes things theoretically risky. Some people's wording in the vendor section and marketplace bother me, and the point about suggesting for an illegal act to be commited is interesting as well. But so far, rules here such as no illegal trades, and reasonable regulation of dosage/availability discussion has kept things calm around here. A good balance, for now at least.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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guitarguy0123
Stranger


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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: Koala Koolio]
#6701215 - 03/22/07 10:02 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Actually makaveli8x8, there have been plenty of cases where people admit to crimes and they don't get convicted. There has to be some kind of evidence. If I said I stole a rocket, they can't convict me on my word alone.
-------------------- I don't know what's gonna happen man, but I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames. -Jim Morrison
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makaveli8x8
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purhaps your currect guitar, however they are going to give you anal cavity searching for MONTHS until they are sure you don't have a rocket
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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guitarguy0123
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#6703012 - 03/23/07 01:00 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- I don't know what's gonna happen man, but I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames. -Jim Morrison
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donkers5257
Grand Inquisitor
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Makaveli is right. If the authorities wanted to burn the Shroomery, they could. Not without throwing a LOT of money at the case and catching flak from a lot of civil right advocacy groups, but it could happen.
That's the thing about law, the "truth of the matter" is whatever a lawyer (and there are a few talented prosecutors out there) can make it seem. I don't doubt they could point at the vast array of posts where people give advice about a grow in progress (especially if there are pics involved) and call it conspiracy, or aiding/abetting... whatever. Is it likely? No. It would be hard as hell to get a conviction of any given individual user for conspiracy charges, because it would be hard to make conspiracy or accessory to a crime stick if there was no evidence that a crime was committed. (Though it can and has been done, but I doubt it would be all that do-able with anything that goes on here) They'd have to take down a grow and have physical evidence, then be able to show that another user had knowledge about the grow and contributed to furtherment of the crime. If they provided a print to someone they knew was growing that would make it easy to get an accessory charge. But like I said, it's unlikely they would waste the resources prosecuting individual cases, especially with conspiracy or accessory charges.
But I wouldn't doubt the authorities could pull the plug on the Shroomery if they wanted, legally. It wouldn't be cheap but not nearly as expensive as trying to get criminal convictions on individual users. If they ever go after the shroomery, what I would be worried about is that they don't stop (or start) with taking it down, they might be able to get a subpoena to confiscate the server and then log all the IP addresses. I imagine THEN, providing they were able to orchestrate it quickly, they could raid some of the larger growers.
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jewunit
Brutal!

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
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Re: Is this web site Illegal? [Re: donkers5257]
#6728544 - 03/30/07 03:03 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, if the authorities wanted to they could burn MEMBERS of the Shroomery, but the Shroomery itself is not illegal. Even if convicting someone of a crime because they told them to grow shrooms, not just how, is possible (I have no clue if it is or not), the Shroomery doesn't do it, the members do. I'm pretty sure the Shroomery is safe as a website, but what some of the members here post is really stupid.
-------------------- !
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