Home | Community | Message Board

World Seed Supply
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
The Internet Revolution
    #6658123 - 03/11/07 12:09 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Imagine if someone took control of the entire internet and transformed it from the portal of junk it is (mixed bag) into a definitive source of knowledge? Every site would have their own Erowid...and that's all they'd have: no redundancy, no bullshit (no ads!!!!)

No pay-sites, either (and I'm not talking about porn...but speaking of porn: a lot of taht shit--especially the stuff with trojans [no pun intended] would be taken down)

Google images would be replaced by like, an open-source "cobra" or whatever that image archive is.

There would be no more searching, one would simply go to the one, definitive site for what they needed.

I know this is just a pipe dream ––– an' 'ah don't mean an analagee ––– the internet is connected by pipes and I think it should be purified.

Edited by JunkFood (03/11/07 12:20 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInnominate
Male


Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 2,136
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658131 - 03/11/07 12:15 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Regulation of the internet, sounds bad. How would you handle all the illegal shit like the sites that let you order drugs, or sites that offer bestiality, shit like that?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: Innominate]
    #6658136 - 03/11/07 12:16 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Innominate said:
Regulation of the internet, sounds bad. How would you handle all the illegal shit like the sites that let you order drugs, or sites that offer bestiality, shit like that?




Everything would just work out.

I'm sick of sifting throughh massive amount of bullshit.

I want definitive knowledge.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInnominate
Male


Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 2,136
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658143 - 03/11/07 12:19 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Yeah, it would all "just work", that's dreams for you. Now you have to take the extra step and figure out how it would work. Someone has to, or it will never be a reality, so why not you do it? Dreams turn to reality turn to cash flow :thumbup:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658160 - 03/11/07 12:28 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I'm sick of sifting throughh massive amount of bullshit.

I want definitive knowledge.


Learn how to use a search engine like google.

Why should the internet change because you have a hard time finding what you need?

Learn how to search, instead of expecting a big red sign that says "HERE IS WHAT YOU WANT!". I can find almost anything I search for within about 5 minutes. Really hard things to find take 20-30 minutes....and I know I'm not that good at searching...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBoom
just a tester
Male
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658166 - 03/11/07 12:30 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

The internet is fucking sweeet

What do you have against google image search? :lol:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,295
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658199 - 03/11/07 12:44 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Imagine if someone took control of the entire internet and transformed it from the portal of junk it is (mixed bag) into a definitive source of knowledge?





It would be my worst nightmare where it comes to the internet, and a giant leap backwards in the evolution of man.

In fact I say all external efforts to control the flow of information should be stopped, except for that of the owners of websites and the laws of the lands the servers of those websites stand.

What if your controller, in its wisdom, would decide that lets say viral videos are a waste of webspace? Millions would be deprived of a lunchbreak laugh, and the inevitable inside jokes at the office that follow in its wake.

What if .txt files were required to be up to academic standards? So many voices would be silenced - what happens to freedom?

The controlling entity, the ultimate filter on the Internet, should be YOU.
Train your mind to discern truth from rubbish. Hone your skills and acquire new ones.

Spend an entire afternoon learning how to use a search engine, so that the answers you get will be few and very significant.

The Internet should be an utter mess where everything possible is present in all its guises - it is up to YOU to create order in the chaos.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: Asante]
    #6658214 - 03/11/07 12:49 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I just have one thing to say to all the people taht doubt me: there is no justification for redundancy.

Consider the Erowid example: isn't Erowid a nice site? Isn't it nice that drugs have a definitive website? Well, I think more (everything) stuff should have a definitive website.

Anybody who thinks the concept of searching as a primary means for getting information is kinda ridiculous, IMHO.

The only downside to what I'm proposing is that then every Joe would have esoteric knowledge at their fingertips (and don't get me wrong--that's a HUGE downside).

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: trendal]
    #6658227 - 03/11/07 12:54 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
I'm sick of sifting throughh massive amount of bullshit.

I want definitive knowledge.


Learn how to use a search engine like google.

Why should the internet change because you have a hard time finding what you need?

Learn how to search, instead of expecting a big red sign that says "HERE IS WHAT YOU WANT!". I can find almost anything I search for within about 5 minutes. Really hard things to find take 20-30 minutes....and I know I'm not that good at searching...




I'm proposing an end to that hassel. It's so funny how closed-minded people can be.

Think about it: things in life get progressively more conveniant...people improve on and improve on and improve on things over time and the keep refining and optimizing things...

You, here, are an example of the closed-minded people that tell dreamers like myself that everything in the world is the way it should be and there's no room for impriovement.

Well, I have news for you: There is room for improvement

:gethigh:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658231 - 03/11/07 12:55 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I just have one thing to say to all the people taht doubt me: there is no justification for redundancy.

Tell that to someone operating a nuclear power plant. Or tell that to the people of Detroit, who once had a 10 megaton nuclear bomb dropped on them by accident...4 of 5 safety devices failed to work. If it hadn't of been for that 5th level of redundancy Detroit wouldn't be there.

What happens in your little net when a server goes down? With no redundancy, everyone is completely cut off from that information.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: trendal]
    #6658238 - 03/11/07 12:58 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
I just have one thing to say to all the people taht doubt me: there is no justification for redundancy.

Tell that to someone operating a nuclear power plant. Or tell that to the people of Detroit, who once had a 10 megaton nuclear bomb dropped on them by accident...4 of 5 safety devices failed to work. If it hadn't of been for that 5th level of redundancy Detroit wouldn't be there.


What happens in your little net when a server goes down? With no redundancy, everyone is completely cut off from that information.




Are you confusing "redundancy" with sustainability and uhhh "double-checking"...if you ask me you're just trying to "call me out"..and now I'm calling YOU out.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658244 - 03/11/07 01:00 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Are you confusing "redundancy" with sustainability and "double-checking"...

Um....no :smirk:

"redundant - serving as a duplicate for preventing failure of an entire system (as a spacecraft) upon failure of a single component"


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevade
veteran


Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 1,737
Loc: Columbus, OHIO
Last seen: 8 years, 4 days
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658257 - 03/11/07 01:04 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

sounds to me like you just suck at using the internet....

the internets fine just the way it is, regulating the internet is one of the worst ideas i have ever herd.


--------------------
I've got this feeling that there's something that I missed...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: trendal]
    #6658260 - 03/11/07 01:05 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Are you confusing "redundancy" with sustainability and "double-checking"...

Um....no :smirk:

"redundant - serving as a duplicate for preventing failure of an entire system (as a spacecraft) upon failure of a single component"




You're right--that WAS the correct use of the word....but you have to realize that words can be used at different degrees of tightness/loosseness...

Edited by JunkFood (03/11/07 03:49 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: vade]
    #6658273 - 03/11/07 01:09 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

vade said:
sounds to me like you just suck at using the internet....

the internets fine just the way it is, regulating the internet is one of the worst ideas i have ever herd.




"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." George Bernard Shaw

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658274 - 03/11/07 01:10 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

If you want definitive websites full of accessible information than you either need to go out and start making these websites or pay others to do so. Your idea doesn't make sense. People aren't going to do their stuff like "you" want them to do. :sorry:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,295
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658283 - 03/11/07 01:13 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Or tell that to the people of Detroit, who once had a 10 megaton nuclear bomb dropped on them by accident...




WOW did that happen? 10 Mt.. there would be no survivors :eek:

Quote:

isn't Erowid a nice site? Isn't it nice that drugs have a definitive website? Well, I think more (everything) stuff should have a definitive website.




There should be an Erowid in every nation in the world, so that no nation controls Erowid. That is SAFETY through redundency what Trendal talks about. Nothing on the Shroomery could make me happier than that every member of the shroomery has their own offline copy of the entire site. Safety through redundency.

The founding principle of the Internet, the reason it was created, was that decentralization of information holds strategic advantage, to be precise, decentralizing the US Army command structure in case of nuclear attack by the Soviets. This founded ARPA-net and that became, by undirected evolution, the Internet we have today.

Decentralization and redundency are EVERYTHING

Quote:

Anybody who thinks the concept of searching as a primary means for getting information is kinda ridiculous




Should a library only contain "good books"?
The Germans experimented with that in the 1930s, book burning, then they graduated to burning people and then whole cities were incinerated.

There should be no central authority, because no one is capable to separate the right from wrong on an absolute level.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6658290 - 03/11/07 01:13 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
If you want definitive websites full of accessible information than you either need to go out and start making these websites or pay others to do so. Your idea doesn't make sense. People aren't going to do their stuff like "you" want them to do. :sorry:




I began this thread by saying "Wouldn't it be great" or something like that...that's all In hafta say :gethigh:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658303 - 03/11/07 01:17 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

In that case; no, it wouldn't be great. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: Asante]
    #6658310 - 03/11/07 01:18 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Should a library only contain "good books"?




Thanks for throwing that out there :grin: ...yes!

It would just make life soooooo much easier :smile:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,295
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658311 - 03/11/07 01:18 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

JF - the great thing about the internet is that it isn't controlled by anything, except raw Evolution itself.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemoon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Male


Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658314 - 03/11/07 01:19 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

the beauty of the internet is that it contains everything no matter how obscure or mainstream. If you want something in condensed form, by a goddamn book. They have table of contents, which im sure will be much more user friendly to you.

The rest of us enjoy the mass of information, cross checking, surfing. The fact that you have to search a little is great, you learn unexpected things along the way.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: Asante]
    #6658316 - 03/11/07 01:20 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

The second greatest thing about the internet is the Shroomery. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevade
veteran


Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 1,737
Loc: Columbus, OHIO
Last seen: 8 years, 4 days
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658319 - 03/11/07 01:20 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

JunkFood said:
Quote:

vade said:
sounds to me like you just suck at using the internet....

the internets fine just the way it is, regulating the internet is one of the worst ideas i have ever herd.




"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." George Bernard Shaw




"your an idiot" -vade

seriously, what the fuck is that quote supposed to do? im i supposed to be like, "o man, he just quoted george bernard shaw! i must be wrong! your right, they should take control of the internet!"


i don't get it...


--------------------
I've got this feeling that there's something that I missed...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBoom
just a tester
Male
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: Asante]
    #6658325 - 03/11/07 01:22 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

That'd be interesting, a downloadable archive of every mushroom document here, with working links and stuff :strokebeard:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemoon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Male


Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: vade]
    #6658328 - 03/11/07 01:22 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

dont be another fucking person who goes.... "please slow down the entire pack just so *I* can keep up"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6658359 - 03/11/07 01:31 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

There are benefits to convolution...I tried to insinuate that earlier

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,295
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: Boom]
    #6658362 - 03/11/07 01:32 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

^_^



Bless the Internet, the place where people can get that which is available nowhere else on the planet. The place where there are special interest pages for anything, and which often brings you into contact with stuff you wouldn't have thought of in a million years.

Cheers to the hackers, furries, postwhores, emos, volunteers and sages!


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: moon_glue]
    #6658370 - 03/11/07 01:34 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

moon_glue said:
dont be another fucking person who goes.... "please slow down the entire pack just so *I* can keep up"




If one person in a native American tribe would contest something, that something wouldn't come to be.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658385 - 03/11/07 01:36 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

JunkFood said:
If one person in a native American tribe would contest something, that something wouldn't come to be.




That is the most unsubstantiated notion that I've ever heard anyone blather. Perhaps if the internet was organized in a more definitive manner you could prove that isn't just a baseless statement. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBoom
just a tester
Male
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6658394 - 03/11/07 01:40 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

:rimshot:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemoon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era
Male


Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,264
Loc: Earth, today...
Last seen: 9 years, 20 days
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6658402 - 03/11/07 01:43 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

if information is centralized into a few pages claiming to be definittive, it would be too easy for someone to use the page to spread mass misinformation. learning isnt supposed to be easy, learning bullshit its.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJunkFood
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 7,258
Loc: NYC
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: moon_glue]
    #6658437 - 03/11/07 01:55 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

moon_glue said:learning isnt supposed to be easy




You're right, part of the challange of learning is the search for the genuine info itself.

Edited by JunkFood (03/11/07 03:10 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCerebralFlower
whats left?

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: The Internet Revolution [Re: JunkFood]
    #6658447 - 03/11/07 01:58 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Id say the internet revoloution is going well already. there is alot of junk, but also alot of information


--------------------
God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire

Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Crimethinc: The Revolution in Action MXNR 1,570 11 01/11/05 11:03 PM
by MXNR
* Decentralization! Gomp 321 0 10/18/06 09:53 AM
by Gomp
* Why hasn't the internet been made illegal yet?
( 1 2 all )
Adamist 3,933 25 12/11/04 05:07 PM
by 40oz
* Vote Trendal in 2004 Ripple 1,192 11 06/28/04 04:12 AM
by CaRnAgECaNdY
* Revolution mp3's LearyfanS 865 7 02/23/04 09:22 PM
by Xochitl
* XBOX 360, PS3, Nintendo Revolution
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
bf6 9,173 96 09/26/05 10:22 PM
by sh0e
* Is Trendal a Superstar? I think so!
( 1 2 all )
emptywisdom 1,699 20 04/23/05 02:18 AM
by Deadmaker
* What other internet sites do you visit?
( 1 2 all )
Ripple 3,560 23 05/10/19 11:07 AM
by Barnaby

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
2,151 topic views. 3 members, 45 guests and 66 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.036 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.