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OfflineOneWhoHasSeen
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The Warrior's Paradox
    #6655320 - 03/10/07 09:53 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

“When one stares long into the abyss, the abyss stares back.” -Friedrich Nietzsche

In the Eastern tradition, most Samurai of old were also buddists. It was belived by the Samurai that the karma created by their life as a professional killer would carry on after death. The murder of another person created so much negative karma that the Samurai would be re-born into the most undisireable form imaginable… they would reincarnate again as a Samurai.

Thus we have the warrior’s paradox. In every power struggle, you always have two sides. The first side are those who are lost and confused in their own ego games, those who dominate. On the other side are they who are dominated, those who either willingly give up their ego or simply don’t have the strength (mentally or phsycially) to stand up for themselves.

The warrior stands between. It is he that has the strength and the will to embrase their personal power to stand against the dominators were the dominated can not. It is known to the warrior that those who dominate are humans just as he is, that they are simply people lost in the games of their ego just like the rest of us. But in this state, those people are a danger to a society that continues into a blissful, egoless state of exsistance.

But it is an infinitly fine line that the warrior must tread. By embrasing their ego to summon the power of change, the warrior is playing with fire. Thus it is inevitable that they eventually get burned. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. We must stare into that invetable darkness, and when we do a piece of it lingers in us. The horrors of war, wether on the battlefield or in ones mind, linger in the conciousness. It is the warrior who must suffer this, who stands like a bastion against the darkness. We take the brunt so that those we protect do not have to.

As long as there is someone out there who wishes to dominate, there will always be a need for warriors to stand up for those who can not. But we must take heart, we warriors of old, for our true spirit lives for the day when we are not needed, when we can finnaly put down the sword. It is that day when the warrior dies, and we can finnaly obtain liberation.

Please feel free to open up discussion…


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A Temporal Anomaly


Edited by OneWhoHasSeen (03/10/07 10:04 AM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: OneWhoHasSeen]
    #6655350 - 03/10/07 10:04 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

"Tell me, Choegyal Rinpoche, about the coming of the Kingdom of Shambhala."

Among the Tibetans I had been hearing references to this ancient prophecy, and conjectures that, after twelve centuries, it was coming true in our time. "Can you please tell me in your own words?" I asked. And slowly, with pauses to reflect, he did. Watching his face, I listened to every word. I was arrested by his description of the Shambhala warrior, for this was clearly a metaphor for the bodhisattva - the hero figure that had so caught my attention in my studies of Mahayana Buddhism. Later in my room by the gully, I wrote down what he said.

"There comes a time when all life on Earth is in danger. Barbarian powers have arisen. Although they waste their wealth in preparations to annihilate each other, they have much in common: weapons of unfathomable devastation and technologies that lay waste the world. It is now, when the future of all beings hangs by the frailest of threads, that the kingdom of Shambhala emerges.

"You cannot go there, for it is not a place. It exists in the hearts and minds of the Shambhala warriors. But you cannot recognize a Shambhala warrior by sight, for there is no uniform or insignia, there are no banners. And there are no barricades from which to threaten the enemy, for the Shambhala warriors have no land of their own. Always they move on the terrain of the barbarians themselves.

"Now comes the time when great courage is required of the Shambhala warriors, moral and physical courage. For they must go into the very heart of the barbarian power and dismantle the weapons. To remove these weapons, in every sense of the word, they must go into the corridors of power where the decisions are made.

"The Shambhala warriors know they can do this because the weapons are manomaya, mind-made. This is very important to remember, Joanna. These weapons are made by the human mind. So they can be unmade by the human mind! The Shambhala warriors know that the dangers that threaten life on Earth do not come from evil deities or extraterrestrial powers. They arise from our own choices and relationships. So, now, the Shambhala warriors must go into training.

"How do they train?" I asked.

"They train in the use of two weapons." That is the word he used - weapons.

"What are they?" I asked. And he held up his hands the way the lamas hold the ritual objects of dorje and bell, as they dance.

"The weapons are compassion and insight. Both are necessary. We need this first one," he said, lifting his right hand, "because it provides us the fuel, it moves us out to act on behalf of other beings. But by itself it can burn us out. So we need the second as well, which is insight into the dependent co-arising of all things. It lets us see that the battle is not between good people and bad people, for the line between good and evil runs through every human heart. We realize that we are interconnected, as in a web, and that each act with pure motivation affects the entire web, bringing consequences we cannot measure or even see.

"But insight alone," he said, "can seem too cool to keep us going. So we need as well the heat of compassion, our openness to the world's pain. Both weapons or tools are necessary to the Shambhala warrior."

from Joanna Macy's memoir Widening Circles.


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OfflineOneWhoHasSeen
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: Sinbad]
    #6655413 - 03/10/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I love it!

Deeper and deeper we go down the rabbit hole, and the deeper we go the bigger it gets. The philosophies of the guru and my ponderings seem to match on multiple points, but the guru hasn't touched on the darkness. His words speak of the optimal, but so often in this world things are never so clear. Often, the warrior battles his own ego as well as the egos of others. Knowing is often as hard or harder then the doing.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: OneWhoHasSeen]
    #6655435 - 03/10/07 11:02 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Insight into the nature of mind is the weapon for uprooting the 'darkness' of ignorance within. The fire of compassion is the way of relating and combating the darkness in the world. The guru has related the two most essential and perfect weapons.


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Edited by Sinbad (03/10/07 11:10 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: Sinbad]
    #6655456 - 03/10/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Right on bad boy. True warriorship is not found in physical warfare, but in the heart.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: OneWhoHasSeen]
    #6655477 - 03/10/07 11:12 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Be sure that your path is the path of the warrior....not the path of the soldier. True warriorship has nothing to do with aggression. I have been a soldier, but now I am ready to become a warrior!


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineOneWhoHasSeen
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6655509 - 03/10/07 11:22 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

The soldier is the dominated. Nay, in a way he is the dominator, as he is the tool of the dominator. Were he to become aware of the warrior within, he would realize he must take his own path rather then moving upon the direction of others.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: OneWhoHasSeen]
    #6655522 - 03/10/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Were he to become aware of the warrior within, he would realize he must take his own path rather then moving upon the direction of others.

This is key.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOneWhoHasSeen
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: Sinbad]
    #6655532 - 03/10/07 11:41 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Compassion is such a multi-faceted concept that it is difficult to pin down. It can be active or passive, empathetic or sympathetic, empowering or humbling. My fires might be lit by the embracing of compassion, but could also be humbled by the understanding of it's flows and neutrality.

Insight is awareness, a divine knowledge of the path. But can one not walk the path without ever seeing the path?

These terms denote the duality of existence, but is there not some way to coalesce them?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: OneWhoHasSeen]
    #6655578 - 03/10/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Duality coalesces only in the virtual abstract of eternity and in the concrete reality of the moment.

Damned, a duality again, but they might also be the same :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineLion
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: OneWhoHasSeen]
    #6655580 - 03/10/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I don't have much to add but I love this thread.  :thumbup:

How does the warrior gain insight into his heart?  By what means does he learn to trust his compassionate instincts?  These are important questions, I think.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineOneWhoHasSeen
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: Lion]
    #6655640 - 03/10/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
How does the warrior gain insight into his heart? By what means does he learn to trust his compassionate instincts? These are important questions, I think.




Ahh, now we ask OF the path. Part of the paradox is that knowing the path is difficult, and is ultimately impossible as either our ego or our own unawareness prevent us from seeing the future. I have tried to come with terms with a faith in the process, that I will learn it if I was meant to learn it. But at the same time fate is not passive but an active choice, I must seek the path in order to find the path. Here we run into a duality again, there must be a way to coalesce.

Perhaps you could go into further detail, BlueCoyote, more specifically on the topic at hand.


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: Lion]
    #6655648 - 03/10/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Religion in Japan is not treated the same way as religion in the US. Here it is all or none, whereas in Japan it is more mixed/eclectic. (Technically known as syncretic.)

Quote:

Around 84% of Japanese people profess to believe both Shinto (the indigenous religion of Japan) and Buddhism.[28] Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism from China have significantly influenced Japanese beliefs and mythology. Religion in Japan tends to be syncretic in nature, and this results in a variety of practices, such as parents and children celebrating Shinto rituals, students praying before exams, couples holding a wedding at a Christian church and funerals being held at Buddhist temples. A minority (0.7%) profess to Christianity.[28] In addition, since the mid-19th century, numerous religious sects (Shinshūkyō) have emerged in Japan.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan


Also, keep in mind that while most samurai may have said that there religion was that of Buddhism, culturally Japan was more often times dominated by Confucianism, especially with respect to government officials (which the samurai arguably were):

Quote:

Buddhism was introduced to Japan by Baekje, to which Japan provided military support, [6] and it was promoted by the ruling class. Prince Shotoku devoted his efforts to the spread of Buddhism and Chinese culture in Japan. He is credited with bringing relative peace to Japan through the proclamation of the Jūshichijō kenpō (十七条憲;法), often referred to in Japan as the Seventeen-article constitution, a Confucian style document that focused on the kinds of morals and virtues that were to be expected of government officials and the emperor's subjects.

He wrote in a letter to the Emperor of China that the 'Emperor of the Land where the Sun rises' (Japan) sends a letter to the 'Emperor of the land where Sun sets' (China), thereby implying a declaration of equal footing with China which angered the Chinese emperor.[7]

Starting with the Taika Reform Edicts of 645, Japanese intensified the adoption of Chinese cultural practices and reorganized the government and the penal code in accordance with the Chinese administrative structure (the Ritsuryo state) of the time. This paved the way for the dominance of Confucian philosophy in Japan until the 19th century. This period also saw the first uses of the word Nihon (日本) as a name for the emerging state.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Japan

This may or may not have answered your question, however I think the background knowledge may have been pertinent.


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin


Edited by FrenchSocialist (03/10/07 12:44 PM)


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Invisiblejustamonkey
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6655674 - 03/10/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Difficulty in following the path, like everything else, is an illusion that we create, for many reasons. Perhaps we say it is difficult to justify our own weaknesses, perhaps we say it is difficult to justify others' weaknesses, or perhaps we just like to say it is difficult to say that we are better than those who have not done it. All of these things are personal. I say it is only a challenge, like other challenges, its difficulty does not matter because a warrior will be a warrior as long as he chooses to be. He will decide, as a warrior does, and then he will act. This is the first use of a warrior's personal power that is, in a way, the same as his first step along the path of the warrior. In becoming a warrior, he has learned how to be a warrior. Decide, act, repeat. The path of a warrior is a challenge, nothing more.

“To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one. It is rather an endless struggle that will go on to the very last moment of our lives. Nobody is born a warrior, in exactly the same way that nobody is born an average man. We make ourselves into one or the other.” -Castaneda Quote


--------------------
[quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda


Edited by justamonkey (03/10/07 01:02 PM)


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: justamonkey]
    #6655699 - 03/10/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

But even if that's true the to remain effective that person must also take into account the reality of changing situations and be able to take into account the changing nature of one's opponent. That requires effort, which by definition, can make it difficult. Anyone who plays strategy games, for example, knows that you cannot just mindlessly follow the easiest path if one wishes to beat ones opponent, one must make a plan, observe, and if conditions necessitate, come up with a new plan. At most, this increases the probability of one's victory, but if one is serious about winning the game, doing so is often necessary.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: justamonkey]
    #6655706 - 03/10/07 01:09 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

“To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one. It is rather an endless struggle that will go on to the very last moment of our lives. Nobody is born a warrior, in exactly the same way that nobody is born an average man. We make ourselves into one or the other.” -Castaneda Quote


This sums it up nicely. This ties into my post on Enlightenment Revisited. Good quote.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOneWhoHasSeen
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6655748 - 03/10/07 01:35 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

FrenchSocialist,

That was only a single example of what I am talking about. I am trying to discuss the archetype of warrior and the paradox (aka duality) that exists within it to better understand man and myself.

I appreciate the facts, but we need to step back and look at the big picture rather then trying to focus on one small piece of the puzzle or another. My Samurai example was just that, only one of the infinite repetitions of the duality of the warrior in humanity.

Justamonkey,

But the world doesn't run as clear cut as you say. Sometimes what we want is something other then we need, and sometimes we don't know what we want or need. It is a very rare man that knows exactly what he wants, and that want is exactly what he needs, and his needs are truely what he needs.

I agree with you on the challenge, but you get to a point were challenge stops explaining the difficulty. If everything was just a challenge we had to overcome, then as we overcame these challenges we would get better and better at overcoming them. If you every played a video game, its just like leveling up and gaining experience. You get stronger and stronger until you reach a crescendo and no challenge is above you.

But instead reality works differently. The challenge only becomes harder and harder, every time you overcome the last one a new one looms its head. They start to crush in on you and you realize your fight will never be over, your sword never sheathed, you are caught in the warrior’s paradox. Then one day you die, resolution and liberation never obtained.

You keep going and going until you finally start asking questions like the ones I put forward. You can't ignore the duality, it must be addressed before we can continue on our spiritual path, the ascension from archetype and the coalescence of duality.


Some might say it is the duality itself that is important, to see one side of the duality we must have an opposing side to contrast. But this seems to only part of the question, resolution must exist within the duality.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: OneWhoHasSeen]
    #6655775 - 03/10/07 01:56 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OneWhoHasSeen said:
Compassion is such a multi-faceted concept that it is difficult to pin down. It can be active or passive, empathetic or sympathetic, empowering or humbling. My fires might be lit by the embracing of compassion, but could also be humbled by the understanding of it's flows and neutrality.

Insight is awareness, a divine knowledge of the path. But can one not walk the path without ever seeing the path?

These terms denote the duality of existence, but is there not some way to coalesce them?




Seeing the path, is the same as having insight. At the moment of pure insight, there is no longer any doubt for the warrior, and no hesitation in the manifestation of compassionate actvity.

But one has to be aware that there are two kind of compassion to talk about in a real sense. One is of intention and the other of application. The first is generating the mind that wishes the highest benefit for others, the second is having the knowledge and wisdom to precisely act predicated on that pure intention. This actualized intention is non-dual with the wisdom of insight, they are interdependent and arise simultaneously.


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (03/11/07 11:50 AM)


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: OneWhoHasSeen]
    #6655840 - 03/10/07 02:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OneWhoHasSeen said:
FrenchSocialist,

That was only a single example of what I am talking about. I am trying to discuss the archetype of warrior and the paradox (aka duality) that exists within it to better understand man and myself.

I appreciate the facts, but we need to step back and look at the big picture rather then trying to focus on one small piece of the puzzle or another. My Samurai example was just that, only one of the infinite repetitions of the duality of the warrior in humanity.




I think it a great example, as it is one of the oldest, continuous organic warrior code in the history of humanity. Remember, in the rest of the world the warrior culture was never allowed as much time to develop to such a high point as it was in Japan, due to the interference of technology. I thus think your example may be more then a specific case but what the warrior code more becomes when taken to a more logical conclusion.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Warrior's Paradox [Re: OneWhoHasSeen]
    #6658025 - 03/11/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I am always eager to simplify but not oversimplify.
The duality in the warriors path is a good example, where duality can lead.
As far as I see, a warrior has two souls. One of a fighter and one of a healer, as he always is concerned with humans. The double edged sword. One side to attack and one side to defend.
Indeed a warrior has to hold both concepts in mind to be able to act in the most profound way he is able to.
He has something, for what he stands for, what he will defend, so it is for him not to destroy this, or not let it be destroyed.
That is why he has to act with his full awareness, because by defending he could also destroy for what he fights for. Pictorially, maybe the 'enemies' will join him in his campaign ?
BTW, what perfectly fits into that concept is, if a fight is unavoidable, a warrior should always let his opponent choose the weapons, as one can only be beaten with ones own weapons.

But:
"It just dawned on me! This scroll of Broken Sword's isn't about sword technique but about swordsmanship's ultimate ideal. Swordsmanship's first achievement is the unity of man and sword. Once this unity is attained, even a blade of grass can be a weapon. The second achievement is when the sword exists in one's heart when absent from one's hand. One can strike an enemy at 100 paces, even with bare hands. Swordsmanship's ultimate achievement is the absence of the sword in both hand and heart. The swordsman is at peace with the rest of the world. He vows not to kill and to bring peace to mankind." - King of Qin


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (03/11/07 11:36 AM)


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