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 ryanz
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Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 5
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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 Would this work as alternative to pressure cooking... 
#6644103 - 03/07/07 03:04 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Would it be possible to put the jars with the substrate in the oven with the lids off and without adding water at 350+ degrees until it's thoroughly heated for like a few hours or something, throwing the lids in the oven separately and sqaures of foil (maybe filling up the jars slightly less). Afterwards, pull the jars out, quickly dump in boiling distilled water and seal the jars with the hot lids, perhaps with one puncture in the lid at first to prevent over-pressurizing inside the jar, followed by foil. All of the dry stuff in the jar should be really hot and thus sterile. The boiling distilled water would be sterile. After adding the boiling water to the jar and sealing it with the hot lid with one puncture hole it would re-steam the top of the jar, and the pressure would make the water permeate the substrate.
I was just trying to imagine a different way to sterilize without buying a pressure cooker...
Dry heat discussed below, same effect but takes longer...
http://www.lbl.gov/ehs/biosafety/Biosafety_Manual/html/sterilization.shtml
Edited by ryanz (03/07/07 03:24 AM)
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 Brainiac
Rogue Scientist
Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
Loc: 與您的女朋 
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Re: Would this work as alternative to pressure cooking... [Re: ryanz]
#6644136 - 03/07/07 03:19 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quake3
Total Carbohydrate
Registered: 08/31/06
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Loc: Relatively New York
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Re: Would this work as alternative to pressure cooking... [Re: ryanz]
#6644140 - 03/07/07 03:20 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you're using grain (WBS, rye, etc) then you need a pressure cooker (maybe not, look up fractional sterilization). I believe you can boil/steam PF tek jars to sterilize them.
It's best to just save the hassle and put down money towards a pressure cooker. You can find a good one for $30-50. If you plan on making this a regular hobby, then put down money for an All American 921 at least. You can get one new for less than $200 shipped on Ebay.
With a decent pressure cooker, you can use grain and knock down a big source of contamination. If a jar gets contaminated, you can jot it down as likely being either sloppy inoculation, or an inefficient filter.
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Civ
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Registered: 10/14/04
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Loc: California
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Re: Would this work as alternative to pressure cooking... [Re: Quake3]
#6644226 - 03/07/07 04:29 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you do it right, fractional works well like all other methods. I found out useing less grains in the jars help make sure they get 100% before the baddies start joining the game. Microwave up some LC or boil some PF-cakes and use them for a grain 2 grain. Give your guys a head start, and not too much medium to eat.. less area to colonize the more your success chance.
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"...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender.
So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
Edited by Civ (03/07/07 04:30 AM)
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Quake3
Total Carbohydrate
Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 924
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Re: Would this work as alternative to pressure cooking... [Re: Civ]
#6644624 - 03/07/07 08:57 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bigger jars get more inoculant, so every jar should take the same time to fully colonize.
For example, if you inject 3cc of LC into a quart jar, and 6cc of LC into a 1/2 gallon jar (2 quarts), they should fully colonize around the same time.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Would this work as alternative to pressure cooking... [Re: Quake3]
#6644654 - 03/07/07 09:08 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cooking dry grains in the oven will toast them. If you wonder what happens to toast when it gets wet, dip a piece of toasted bread into water. It turns to mush. Get a pressure cooker.
RR
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DeadHead881
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Registered: 01/27/07
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Re: Would this work as alternative to pressure cooking... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6645299 - 03/07/07 01:14 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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ovens not a good idea...one thing like RR said it will just toast the shit out of ur substrate which is obviously not a good thing..another thing is your oven is filled with so many nasty germs and greese and just all kinds of things that are guna be floting around and landing in ur open jars(can u say contams!)if your just using the PF tek then u can boil the jars for around an hour u can do it a little more if you like but this does work well if you do not have a pressure cooker..but if your using WBS or rye or ne thing ur guna need a PC thats all there is to it! but try to refrain from the oven
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Sometimes the lights all shinin on me;
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip its been...
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odium33
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Registered: 05/16/06
Posts: 1,187
Loc: mycoland
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Re: Would this work as alternative to pressure cooking... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6645374 - 03/07/07 01:35 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Get a pressure cooker.
RR
gotta go with RR, its more than worth the investment
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Rhizoid
carbon unit
Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
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Re: Would this work as alternative to pressure cooking... [Re: ryanz]
#6648645 - 03/08/07 11:30 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I actually had some positive results from roasting grain, a few years back before I laid my hands on a small pressure cooker.
But it was a pain in the ass to get it right. You can't let the grain spend the 2-4 hours in a hot oven that it takes to sterilize them, the grains will be ruined. And you have to spread the grains in a thin layer on a pan in order to roast it evenly. This reduces the amount that you can process in one go... And then you have to add moisture to the roasted grains, and the amount has to be absolutely right.
I found that somewhere between 40-90 minutes in 160-180 degrees C (that's 320-360 F for you barbarians out there  ) followed by careful simmering and draining and then an hour's boiling, would reduce my contamination rate for rye grain from >50% to about 10%, as compared to boiling alone.
I never found out what the optimal roasting time was. But I did get about 170% return from this type of substrate if I remember correctly (meaning 1.7g fresh harvest per gram of dry grains), so obviously the nutrients weren't damaged by the roasting, or at least not very much.
However, I highly recommend getting a pressure cooker. Even a small one will make you happy. It saves a lot of work and frustration. Substrate can be prepared by pouring grains and water into jars, like in the McKenna brothers book, and one hour later the jars are ready. Pre-soak the grain if you are doing some extra sensitive experiment, but don't bother if you are willing to accept an occasional contaminated jar.
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Blutjager
Inhuman
Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Would this work as alternative to pressure cooking... [Re: odium33]
#6648661 - 03/08/07 11:33 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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quote]odium33 said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Get a pressure cooker.
RR
gotta go with RR, its more than worth the investment
Best thing you can spend you money on if you plan on taking this hobby seriously,it really is money well spend and you will not regret doing it when you see your success rate skyrocket and your contamination rate drop to next to nothing as long as you also follow good sterile tek [
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