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Epigallo
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More words = More consciousness? *DELETED*
#6635210 - 03/04/07 06:36 PM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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Post deleted by EpigalloReason for deletion: Sorry.
Edited by bradleycny (03/04/07 06:48 PM)
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aelephant
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: Epigallo]
#6635722 - 03/04/07 08:53 PM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Aldous Huxley said:For the intellectual is by definition the man for whom, in Goethe's phrase, 'the word is essentially fruitful.' He is the man who feels that 'what we perceive by the eye is foreign to us as such and need not impress us deeply.' And yet, though himself an intellectual and one of the supreme masters of language, Goethe did not always agree with his own evaluation of the word. 'We talk,' he wrote in his middle life, 'far too much. We should talk less and draw more. I personally should like to renounce speech altogether and, like organic Nature, communicate everything I have to say in sketches. That fig tree, this little snake, the cocoon on my window sill quietly awaiting its future -- all these are momentous signatures. A person able to decipher their meaning properly would soon be able to dispense with the written or the spoken word altogether. The more I think of it, there is something futile, mediocre, even (I am tempted to say) foppish about speech. By contrast, how the gravity of Nature and her silence startle you, when you stand face to face with her, undistracted, before a barren ridge or in the desolation of the ancient hills.' We can never dispense with language and the other symbol systems; for it is by means of them, and only by their means, that we have raised ourselves above the brutes, to the level of human beings. But we can easily become the victims as well as the beneficiaries of these systems. We must learn how to handle words effectively; but at the same time we must preserve and, if necessary, intensify our ability to look at the world directly and not through the half opaque medium of concepts, which distorts every given fact into the all familiar likeness of some generic label or explanatory abstraction.
Quote:
Seng-ts'an said: The more you talk about it, the more you think about it, the further from it you go; STOP TALKING, STOP THINKING, AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND."
Edited by aelephant (03/04/07 08:54 PM)
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Epigallo
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: aelephant]
#6635829 - 03/04/07 09:25 PM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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So are you implying a language with less words actually expands consciousness?
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aelephant
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: Epigallo]
#6636323 - 03/04/07 11:43 PM (17 years, 29 days ago) |
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In a certain context, yes. At some point you have to realize that nothing in the natural world can really be reduced to the symbols we create, it just is as it is in the here and now.
I agree, however, that on a mass cultural/societal scale the selection of language can be used to enslave the minds of the masses. This is taking place as we speak.
-------------------- As we live a life of ease, Everyone of us has all we need Sky of blue and Sea of Green In our Yellow Submarine
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: Epigallo]
#6636751 - 03/05/07 05:42 AM (17 years, 28 days ago) |
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You seem to have things 'bass ackwards.' Differentiation is a corollary to greater knowledge. Would you want a brain surgeon to have a vocabulary of 'cerebreum, cerebellum, medulla oblongata and pons' - exclusively? Do you think your little I-Pod could be built with a 'few words?' How about descriptive psychology and its practical application for helping people to become whole.
Zen-like unity is a higher order unity which encompasses but transcends differentiation. The simplicity that I hear in this is a pre-conscious, pre-differentiated consciousness which is the state of our paleolithic ancestors, not the 'potential' mentality of modern human beings (not the I-Pod and cell phone addicted multitudes whose minds as cluttered as an adolescent's bedroom - both of which are a product of a cluttered and chaotic mind). Carefully chosen words can Enlighten others, and the more words available, the greater the ability to convey the subtleties of Reality.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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elbisivni
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: Epigallo]
#6637663 - 03/05/07 01:24 PM (17 years, 28 days ago) |
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I think it can go either way..
A thinning of language could greatly diminish one of the most important tools of self expression. But in it's absence, body language may begin to play an increasingly important role. I think for the purposes of mass communication and enormous interconnected communities, a watered down system of speech would be detrimental.
We use words in combination in order to establish and represent ideas and actions. With less words we would be less capable of formulating and communicating those thoughts precisely.
At the same time, because we use words to represent ideas, object and actions, our minds become affixed to words, held back by the barrier created by the use of words. But until we can communicate through telepathic wavelengths in the language of energy, words are a necessity, so the more we have of them the better.
I get pissed when people bitch because I use words I've concocted myself that are usually logically translatable but aren't in any dictionary. Tight-ass snap-to-grid speech-Nazi bastards devoid of imagination..
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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hot48yearolds
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: aelephant]
#6639955 - 03/05/07 11:15 PM (17 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
aelephant said: In a certain context, yes. At some point you have to realize that nothing in the natural world can really be reduced to the symbols we create, it just is as it is in the here and now.
I agree, however, that on a mass cultural/societal scale the selection of language can be used to enslave the minds of the masses. This is taking place as we speak.
Without language and symbols you would have never learned your cute eastern philosophy. You would be climbing a tree while throwing your feces at a snarling wolf.
-------------------- "Truth is more in the process than in the result." - J. Krishnamurti "We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei
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redgreenvines
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: hot48yearolds]
#6640016 - 03/05/07 11:41 PM (17 years, 28 days ago) |
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more words - more effective association and analytics
more layers (buffered moments) - more expanded consciousness
complex word association and buffered mind moments (in expanded consciousness) creates frission: i.e. the stoned mind is more liberated without any additional word association, while it seems boggled in word reverberations when word association is pursued.
personal freedom (functionally and politically) is increased with more words, and psychicly it is enhanced by being able to sit wordlessly.
-------------------- _ 🧠 _
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aelephant
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: hot48yearolds]
#6640954 - 03/06/07 10:43 AM (17 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
hot48yearolds said:
Quote:
aelephant said: In a certain context, yes. At some point you have to realize that nothing in the natural world can really be reduced to the symbols we create, it just is as it is in the here and now.
I agree, however, that on a mass cultural/societal scale the selection of language can be used to enslave the minds of the masses. This is taking place as we speak.
Without language and symbols you would have never learned your cute eastern philosophy. You would be climbing a tree while throwing your feces at a snarling wolf.
This is why I said "in a certain context". I am well aware of the benefits of language and I agree with the quote from Aldous Huxley that I posted above, the sentiment of which is exactly what you are expressing. I am glad we are in agreement, snarling wolf.
-------------------- As we live a life of ease, Everyone of us has all we need Sky of blue and Sea of Green In our Yellow Submarine
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BlueCoyote
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: Epigallo]
#6641078 - 03/06/07 11:28 AM (17 years, 27 days ago) |
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The 'fundus', out of which we fish our words should be as large as possible, but the usage of them should be precise, sharp and as short to the point as possible. This can be done the better, the larger the 'fundus' is, and the better our 'fishing ability' has grown I sorrily admit, that my 'fundus' of english words is not larger than medium, and I often am too lazy to look into a dictionary. A goal for me to train on
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redgreenvines
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#6641096 - 03/06/07 11:34 AM (17 years, 27 days ago) |
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time to stretch your fundus. excuse me I have to stretch my fundus a bit too.
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CerebralFlower
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
#6644804 - 03/07/07 10:07 AM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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sometimes less is more
-------------------- God says dance with your heart And shake free of you desire Where theres a will theres always a way When you get confused listen to the music play
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leery11
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: CerebralFlower]
#6645414 - 03/07/07 01:46 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Carefully chosen words can Enlighten others, and the more words available, the greater the ability to convey the subtleties of Reality.
It is all in the arrangement implicit in the understanding of the ineffable articulated with severe limitations. Prison cell now liberation launching pad, the poet simple crystalizes purity with his best assortment of pointing fingers.
immersion is important because one who is not immersed in understanding what he is saying--the pinnacle being that he is channeling silence deliberately--the less meaning his words have.... rather he will take tattoos from mceydoos and all sorts of jargon upwashings he gets from the media and basically just use these cookie cutter phrases without comprehending the source of them... and i do not think there is a source to them, rather just the adolescently bored monkey mind markos referenced.
for instance oh i just LOVE this icecream, etc, etc...... we have to run that script so we can be cheery and happy, yet the words are fickle. yet they are fine, because i think everyone comes to a realization that even though what they are saying is complete BS, it is articulating meaningful expressions from the core
something like
playing cops and robbers in order to feel excitation, but knowing it is only a game. the key is remembering it is a game, rather than taking the prescribed children's roles seriously, because when they are taken seriously egos become enslaved by fictional media constructs and suddenly one is not able to exert any change away from the stream of ditzy blonde #3... whereas if football jock #2 played the role of ditzy blonde #3, using her schemas would bring him a lot of novelty and allow him to channel joy and various funnitudes to his peers......
it's about stepping behind the stage and arranging roles and assortments into your own advantage in order to approximate towards the absolute purity, your own inner conception of what awesome grace and ease of being is...... and then it's great to say OH I JUST LOOOOVE THIS ICE CREAM! because... what is wrong with that? if you feel it....
i feel like i write dogma though.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (03/07/07 01:48 PM)
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leery11
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Re: More words = More consciousness? [Re: leery11]
#6645514 - 03/07/07 02:13 PM (17 years, 26 days ago) |
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also
word enslavement works thusly in part like this: [I am learningi about the US's history of racism so my mind is loaded thusly, don't freak out] nigger. you cannot love a nigger. you cannot treat a nigger well. nigger is a completely new sword from the smelt and it is designed and intended and created only to harm. nigger propogates reality. there are words like "man" and "men" but nigger negates them. a nigger is not a man. you have slavery, you have oppression, you have racism. but slavery and oppression and racism do not exist the way they exist to us.... they are not oppressing human beings. no, they are not ________________ ing _____________s they have filled it in that they are doing what is completely right and normal to things that clearly are not human beings.
drug. marijuana is not a drug. marijuana is not a drug, because drug is the same thing as nigger. it is a word designed to create a reality in which enslavement may justify its ends by lying to you. it lies to you simply because it creates a reality with an agenda, an agenda that is not in the general interest or welfare of anyone, rather, is designed to harm and leech off of the many. because drug is, war is. because drug and war are, because the two words are fused in the forge, acceptance is. because acceptance is, reality is. because drug war is, acceptance of drug war is. because the two words are, just as how nigger and jew and homeland and security and God and etcetera are, the reality is. the reality can now justify a story. the story is that everyone gets fucked but the rich..... but the characters in the story are forged something like this: WARNING IMMINENT DANGER, YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 WARNING IMMINENT DANGER, YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 WARNING IMMINENT DANGER, YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
WARNING IMMINENT DANGER, YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 WARNING IMMINENT DANGER, YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 WARNING IMMINENT DANGER, YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
i mean... lordy... a black folk can't marry a white folk? Why? Because of the creation of words and beliefs, and the systematic using of only these words to refine and sculpt reality and society............
so then... nigger changes to african-american right? or "freedman" or.... ? or what? Afro-American? Black? Negro? Well..... arguable a something is a something... otherwise there would be not post here..... things have evolved..... but there is still divisiveness, is there not ?
Now, yes, if I see someone with different skin, I see.... but most of what I see is because of the words used to tell me how to see...... if one were to reinvent language by taking a black and a white together..... in fact... if the black and white reinvted the language, they would not bother wasitng their time thinking of words to create that would explain their differences, that would dehumanize each other.... they would just build a reality where they are both men, and they look a little different for some reason.
In these ways, much beyond this, requiring investigation, words enslave....... in these ways marijuana is only sort of a drug, heroin is entirely a drug, and mushrooms may be better called a medicine. Yet I have not done mushrooms, but this an audience of enthusiasts.
Right because....... red skinned folk are using medicine..... what's wrong with that? Nothing is wrong. It is perfectly okay. But lets run it through the Free to Oppressed dictionary: These natives are using medicine :: These savages are practicing witchcraft.
Now oppression gets a thumbs up
Can anyone reference these ideas into some good reading, articles, books, philosophies, etc? It's really very interesting.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (03/07/07 02:14 PM)
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