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Offlinersimoa
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    #6637674 - 03/05/07 03:29 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

...


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"Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus


Edited by rsimoa (12/31/07 04:49 AM)


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InvisibleBERSERK DESTROYER
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: rsimoa]
    #6637690 - 03/05/07 03:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I believe God is just the culmination of all the forces that govern our universe. God doesn't control human behaviour, it/he/she/force/whatever just create(s) the circumstances we live in.

I agree about the cruel-seeming nature of the God in Christianity, however, especially in the story of Job. If you're not familiar with this, God basically lets Satan terrorise a guy to test his loyalty. Very nice.


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Offlinersimoa
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: BERSERK DESTROYER]
    #6637702 - 03/05/07 03:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

But the story of Job only makes sense if you consider the theory of my friend... it's not about right or wrong, it's about strength. How much was Job willing to survive for his love? everything.


--------------------
"Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus


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InvisibleBERSERK DESTROYER
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: rsimoa]
    #6637733 - 03/05/07 03:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It's open to interpretation though, like the whole Bible. Whether it's just an example of someone standing strong against all circumstances, and refusing to surrender, or whether it is an attempted justification for God doing all manner of evil things isn't clear. It just always seemed to me that the rewards at the end don't really justify what happened to Job. If I recall correctly he gets a new wife and children. Great stuff. Why don't they just hand out new children to people whose kids die?


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Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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Offlinegonzoguy
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: BERSERK DESTROYER]
    #6639948 - 03/06/07 01:13 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

What I think is interesting is how Christians believe the earth is around 4,000 years old...which is obviously wack, considering the atoms they have been alive for millions of years...there's an "Hourglass" depiction that Scientist use about how they can calculate exactly how long atoms (in a rock for example) have been living.
If you go in a room and an hourglass is just finishing its last grains of sand into the bottom, you know that hourglass was flipped "around" an hour ago; which the Scientist say the atoms are like the grains of sand. They can calculate by how many "daughter" atoms there are, when the atoms had been "flipped" (like the hourglass). These atoms are dating back to millions of years ago.

Another interesting Christian belief is the story of Noah's Ark. Most Christians I've asked about it usually say that they know some of the Bible is intended to not take seriously/literally for moral purposes. But the bible is the "word of god", so why would GOD play such a unethical prank on us humans, with such an in depth, complicated story...I guess I expected the God's word to be more honest.


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"We are so much the victims of abstraction that with the Earth in flames
we can barely rouse ourselves to wander across the room and look at the thermostat."
~Terence McKenna


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Offlinersimoa
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: gonzoguy]
    #6640866 - 03/06/07 12:11 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah... that and the fact that the New and Old testaments are damn near irreconcilable.


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"Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus


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Offlinekimikiri
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: rsimoa]
    #7320354 - 08/22/07 02:56 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

God gave us all free will.

Why blame God for something that someone else did?

The "Old Testaments" are just that... old.

Look to the words of Jesus --> God. In the New Testament.

Those who mix the old with the new are just trying to twist the true word of god.


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Those who would sacrifice their freedoms for securities deserve neither, and will soon lose both.

-Benjamin Franklin


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Invisiblecloudtripper
Knock and theDoor will open
Registered: 05/24/07
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: kimikiri]
    #7320423 - 08/22/07 03:49 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I have a big problem with understanding suffering too. It's something I'de like to ignore, but that would be wrong. I can understand that some suffering at a low amount can teach lessons (normally teaches to avoid the situation that caused the suffering) and can make someone grow however at the extremes I can't see anything that can justify suffering and there is alot of it about and it often can be soul destroying and will destroying.

You can't just blame people for it, because it happens to other animals also. In the past some Christians have tried to get around it by saying that animals don't suffer, but that is just not true.

So far I haven't found an answer, other than this is a fallen world, like the world in the Matrix, yet there is still so much Love and beauty here ... I don't know the answer, but it is such an important question for me.

Is it just an unfortunate side effect of life ? If so then it kind of smears the beauty of life that it should have such a terrible cost.


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Always come back again. Never come back the same.


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OfflineDiamonds808
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: cloudtripper]
    #7320527 - 08/22/07 05:05 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

It's called free will. You can't blame God for other people's choices and mistakes.


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Invisiblecloudtripper
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: Diamonds808]
    #7320531 - 08/22/07 05:10 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Well it's not the mistake a child to have a bomb dropped on him (or her) is it ?

It's not the mistakee of 100,000 people who get drowned by a wave or killed in an earth quake. Not to mention those left behind to morne and suffer injury.

It's not the fault of a Deer that gets hunted and killed by a Lion is it ?

I'd say don't blame people for mistakes that arn't their fault.

If it is free will then free will has the cost of terrible suffering.



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Always come back again. Never come back the same.


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OfflineDiamonds808
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: cloudtripper]
    #7320535 - 08/22/07 05:13 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Oh yes, evil God for creating natural disasters. Lets blame God for all the deaths and natural occurrences because we don't know who to blame. People have to die. Would you like it better if people only died from old age? How would our world be like? Or if only the bad people died? Hm? Where's the line drawn?


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Invisiblecloudtripper
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: Diamonds808]
    #7320538 - 08/22/07 05:16 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Well let's not blame the victims of those situation and say it was their fault.

Yes, I personally would like it better if people and other sentient beings only died from old age.

Ever heard of Utopia ?


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Always come back again. Never come back the same.


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OfflineDiamonds808
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: cloudtripper]
    #7320544 - 08/22/07 05:21 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I never blamed the victims if you read my post correctly.

No, I haven't.


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OfflineLocus
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: rsimoa]
    #7320556 - 08/22/07 05:34 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

this is a bummer. makes me want to blow my head off right now. what it comes down to is if there is a god.. which gave us all free will.. then he is responsible for the fuckin evil out there that makes this world so unjust.. no one should have to go through being raped or molested or blown up ...etc..etc..etc.. so much pain... and what for.. is it even worth living for..
people often look to their gods because theyre not satisfied with their lives and... i dunno where im going with this.. whatever..


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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Invisiblecloudtripper
Knock and theDoor will open
Registered: 05/24/07
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: Diamonds808]
    #7320558 - 08/22/07 05:36 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

ok, my mistake. As you said "Mistake" it makes it sound like you are saying everyone suffers due to a mistake or action they have made, or even due another persons action.

You can't blame the person or animal in the examples I have shown.

Uptopia is basically a perfect place. There are a few different ideas, have a look here if you want, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia

Anyway like I said, I don't know the answer to the question of suffering. Maybe oneday I will.


--------------------
Always come back again. Never come back the same.


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Invisiblecloudtripper
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: cloudtripper]
    #7320570 - 08/22/07 05:44 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Locus, I've wrestled with it just about everyday for a long time. Even drugs haven't given me a Good answer yet. Don't give up, just keep on questioning and looking for the answer. Maybe the Good God is trying to save us, after all it's not all bad, and if everything was evil there would be no Love, no Joy, no forgiveness etc, it's just the very bad parts always hanging around that are the problem.

The Buddhist say, Life is suffering, and seek to reach Nirvana and prevent themselves from being reborn into the world again. There are so many ideas on the subject though.


--------------------
Always come back again. Never come back the same.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: cloudtripper]
    #7320572 - 08/22/07 05:50 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

No matter how strong that little girl was, how great her inborn survival ability, it couldn't have changed her fate... I don't think this is a survival test. Some people simply don't get the chance to survive, and if there's no chance from the beginning it can't be a test.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (08/22/07 05:51 AM)


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OfflineDiamonds808
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: cloudtripper]
    #7320576 - 08/22/07 05:55 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

cloudtripper said:
ok, my mistake. As you said "Mistake" it makes it sound like you are saying everyone suffers due to a mistake or action they have made, or even due another persons action.

You can't blame the person or animal in the examples I have shown.

Uptopia is basically a perfect place. There are a few different ideas, have a look here if you want, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia

Anyway like I said, I don't know the answer to the question of suffering. Maybe oneday I will.



My post was referring to the original post about the rapists and murders. I was saying, don't blame god for the choices that the rapist and murders made.


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InvisibleZShroom
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: Diamonds808]
    #7320601 - 08/22/07 06:34 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Ok but why not, I mean your GOD created your rapists and ur murders? I mean like someone in this post just said if there is a God that created EVERYTHING, like most all religons say then God must have created or dealt with evil! Bottom line- If god created free will then God manifested evil in human beings hereby making him the "devil"! I just dont get it and everybody has something diff. to say about this subject. It really pisses me off, and stops/slows my mental growth. Maybe it is just a problem we will never figure out. Also my good enlightened friend chris told me that he read in a brain science magazine that somehow scientists found in studies that the human "soul"/ consciousness exsists for 15 mins. after death. Weird not sure how they know this but not sure if I believe at all.:bongload::1up:


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: What I think I learned... [Re: rsimoa]
    #7320786 - 08/22/07 09:29 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Hey, don't think about it like god has direct control over everything that can possibly happen here. What if god is a hell of a lot more like us than any of us thought?

It has occurred to me a million times that we become gods when we plant seeds. We are gods when we have cattle. We are certaily gods when we grow mushrooms.

We are all shepherds of some flock! Let us not forget that while we tend to our herd, the great shepherd tends to our herd of human beings, our great culture of vegetative fungus.

What can you do when your casing is attacked by mold or by gnats, or your garden vegetables are eaten by insects? Do you sob at the great cruelty of existence? You can only do so much to prevent something like this from happening, it will eventually happen.

On the cellular scale, it is incredible suffering, it is an unimaginable disaster! Yet you, god of this culture, are powerless to stop it. Has your love for what you cultivate gone? No, your will is unable to affect it.

Maybe we demand too much from our god. Maybe we don't realize he must follow the same rules that we do. Maybe he is just another being, trying to cultivate, and we are his cultivation.

Maybe somewhere out in space there is a big blue book written by an expert called "The Human Cultivator," with a picture of a city from above on the cover.

"Step one: Inocculate your planet with life, and let life grow over the entire surface of the planet."


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“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Psychedelic Experience

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