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Offlinepingerau
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ID please 05.03.07
    #6635177 - 03/04/07 06:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

sorry if this is a double post but i cant find my thread anywhere
but went out this morning after a thunderstorm
first time hunting and came across all these mainly in cow dung or in close proximity.
any help in identifying them will be greatly appreciated
i'll b adding more spore print images,just abit excite with the hunt n couldnt wait for itlol








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Offlinelovvingcubies
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: pingerau]
    #6635191 - 03/04/07 06:29 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

you have a mixed collection it SEEMS,but mainly I THINK copes in there aka blue meanies aka coplendia cyaceniens,now that i look back most of em apear to be copes??


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Offlinecmoney
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: lovvingcubies]
    #6635197 - 03/04/07 06:31 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

that's what i was thinking


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Offlineblacksun
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: cmoney]
    #6635517 - 03/04/07 07:50 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Get the spore print first.
Where are you in the world?
Better description please.

Seems to be a mixed bunch.
Paneoulus I would say.
Someone help me out

Koraks? Curecat?


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: pingerau]
    #6635621 - 03/04/07 08:18 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Wow!! That is a lucky first find!

Well, I'd say you have a mixed collection of Panaeolus cyanescens (aka Copelandia cyanescens), and Panaeolus semiovatus (aka Panaeolus antillarum).

Pan. cyanescens are potent hallucinogenic mushrooms, while Pan. semiovatus is inedible, and might give you the shits and a stomach ache if you ate them.

To separate the two species, look for distinct blue bruising. The mushrooms which bruise blue, are Pan. cyanescens, the blue reaction is probably caused from the oxidization of the active chemical psilocin, analogous to psilocybin.


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Offlinecube428
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: CureCat]
    #6635647 - 03/04/07 08:27 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

you are lucky indeed-  nice collection of copes but I dunno what the rest are-  look to be inactive          Where are you located which you harvested those,    Near Florida?  been kinda stormy over there lately I Think ..  :mushroom2:              Please be careful with those copes-      Very strong


Edited by cube428 (03/04/07 08:28 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: CureCat]
    #6635682 - 03/04/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

To the person posting this thread. Those are all copelandia mushrooms.. Very active at 3 to 10 fresh shrooms or 1- 1-1/2 grams dried.

Curecat,

Your Identification is incorrect.
You said:
Quote:

Well, I'd say you have a mixed collection of Panaeolus cyanescens (aka Copelandia cyanescens), and Panaeolus semiovatus (aka Panaeolus antillarum).




Those are all Copelandia cyanescens. There are no Panaeolus semiovatus or Panaeolus antillarum in those images.

And furthermore, Panaeolus semiovatus is not aka Panaeolus antillarum.

They are two distinct species.

Here are three fotos of Panaeolus semiovatus;






And here is one of various sizes of Panaeolus antillarum


mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: pingerau]
    #6635723 - 03/04/07 08:53 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

pingerau,

Those are all Copelandia cyanescens.

however, I would like to point out that your giant size images screw up the script of the page making it take a long time to open and then it spreads your images across the page to wide.

Nice find. Next time you pick them, do not squeeze them while handling and they will not bruise blue them.

Pick them so they look like this:\\\

Here are two iamges of the variety of Copelandia which you collected with the brownish stems and caps.





mj


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6635743 - 03/04/07 09:00 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

mjshroomer - I cannot see bluing on every specimen. Some appear to be bruising a brown/red colour. It could be that every mushroom is Pan. cyanescens, and so I described the process for sorting the two species out.

Secondly, I didn't want to have to explain the details.... No one seems to care, but I guess now I will.

The current classification for the mushrooms you have labeled as Panaeolus antillarum, is Panaeolus semiovatus var. phalaenarum.
The current classification for the mushroom you described as Panaeolus semiovatus, is intact- if you want to get technical, it is Panaeolus semiovatus var. semiovatus.

So, the two mushrooms are distinct sub-species of the same species.


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OfflineSebastian23
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: CureCat]
    #6635838 - 03/04/07 09:29 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Owned. Nice first finds, pingerau! Careful with those cyanescens, They're strong.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: CureCat]
    #6635873 - 03/04/07 09:39 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Curecat:
Quote:

The current classification for the mushrooms you have labeled as Panaeolus antillarum, is Panaeolus semiovatus var. phalaenarum




No it is not.

Panaeolus antillarum has nothing to do with Paneolus semiovatus. They are two distinct species/

I have studied this genus for thirty years and i now which mushroom is which. Both mushrooms I posted are as I said they were.

First, Look in Paul's book PMOTW.

Panaeolus semiovatus use to be Anellaria separata and was moved to Panaeolus as Panaeolus separatus and later was changed to Panaeolus semiovatus. (Stamets Page 81).



Panaeolus antillarum was first identified by Berkely as Panaeolus sepulchralis and later was changed to Panaeolus phalaenarum by Fries ex.:Quélet and is now Panaeolus antillarum (Fries) Dennis.





It is only related to semiovatus as it is inthe genus Panaeolus.

One final note. Over the past twenty years I have probably collected more than 100,000 fresh specimens of many of the 13 varieties of Copelandia genera. I knwo what I see. and his specimens inhis photos are all copelandia.

john


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Offlinepingerau
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6636410 - 03/05/07 12:26 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

thank you every1 for replying and helping me out.

im located in NSW australia hence the pinger'au' LOL

there were so many of them this morning but me n a mate didnt exactly kno if they were good or not.

wow im excited now ...
it'll b the first time for me so i cant wait


Edited by pingerau (03/05/07 12:27 AM)


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Offlinelukdwy
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: pingerau]
    #6636536 - 03/05/07 01:17 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

just don't throw those copes in a plastic bag or container if you ever go out again.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: mjshroomer]
    #6636620 - 03/05/07 02:24 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
First, Look in Paul's book PMOTW.



Quote:

mjshroomer said:
Another misidentified mushroom by an expert

Here Panaeolus sphinctrinus is mis-identified as Panaeolus semiovatus



I respect Stamets, however, I am also aware of some misprints in his book, "Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World".
Even experts make mistakes, correct?


Quote:

mjshroomer said:
Panaeolus semiovatus use to be Anellaria separata and was moved to Panaeolus as Panaeolus separatus and later was changed to Panaeolus semiovatus. (Stamets Page 81).

Panaeolus antillarum was first identified by Berkely as Panaeolus sepulchralis and later was changed to Panaeolus phalaenarum by Fries ex.:Quélet and is now Panaeolus antillarum (Fries) Dennis.




Not according to the CABI Bioscience Database, Index Fungorum:

Quote:

Current Name:
Panaeolus semiovatus (Sowerby) S. Lundell & Nannf., Fungi Exsiccati Suecici 11-12: 14 (no. 537) (1938) var. semiovatus

Synonymy:
Agaricus ciliaris Bolton, Hist. fung. Halifax 2: 53 (1788)
Agaricus semiovatus Sowerby, Coloured figures of English Fungi or Mushrooms (London) 2: tab. 131 (1798)
Agaricus separatus L., Sp. Plantarum: 1175 (1753)
Anellaria fimiputris sensu auct. mult.; fide Checklist of Basidiomycota of Great Britain and Ireland (2005)
Anellaria semiovata (Sowerby) A. Pearson & Dennis, Trans. Br. mycol. Soc. 31(3/4): 185 (1948)
Anellaria separata (L.) P. Karst., Bidr. Känn. Finl. Nat. Folk: 517 (1879)
Anellaria separata var. minor Sacc., Syll. fung. (Abellini) 5: 1126 (1887)
Panaeolus fimiputris sensu auct. mult.; fide Checklist of Basidiomycota of Great Britain and Ireland (2005)
Panaeolus leucophanes sensu Cooke; fide Checklist of Basidiomycota of Great Britain and Ireland (2005)
Panaeolus semiovatus (Sowerby) S. Lundell & Nannf., Fungi Exsiccati Suecici 11-12: 14 (no. 537) (1938)
Panaeolus separatus (L.) Quél., Bull. Soc. bot. Fr. 23: 328 (1877) [1876]



http://indexfungorum.org/Names/SynSpecies.asp?RecordID=439552

Quote:

Current Name:
Panaeolus semiovatus var. phalaenarum (Fr.) Ew. Gerhardt, Biblthca Bot. 147: 24 (1996)

Synonymy:
Agaricus egregius Massee, Grevillea 13(no. 68): 91 (1885)
Agaricus phalaenarum Fr., Epicr. syst. mycol. (Upsaliae): 235 (1838)
Anellaria phalaenarum (Fr.) M.M. Moser, in Gams, Kleine Kryptogamenflora, Edn 3 (Stuttgart) 2(b/2): 225 (1967)
Panaeolus antillarum sensu Watling &; Gregory (BFF5); fide Checklist of Basidiomycota of Great Britain and Ireland (2005)
Panaeolus egregius (Massee) Sacc., Syll. fung. (Abellini) 5: 1119 (1887)
Panaeolus phalaenarum (Fr.) Quél. [as 'St[rophaneolus]'], Mém. Soc. Émul. Montbéliard, Sér. 2 5: 151 (1872)



http://www.speciesfungorum.org/Names/SynSpecies.asp?RecordID=437162


In my experience, the Index Fungorum has proven to be the most reliable resource for current classification reflecting the phylogeny of various mushroom species.


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Offlinepingerau
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: CureCat]
    #6636705 - 03/05/07 04:21 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

mm sorry to cause a debate over the mushies being such a noob

but i've taken 3 more photos of some spore prints ..







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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: pingerau]
    #6637130 - 03/05/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Don't be sorry! Wonderful photos, thank you for taking the time to post them. We're discussing technicalities, the only thing that is really important for you to know right now, is to make sure the mushrooms you collect have a black spore print and bruise blue.

The spore colour, however, will be the same for all species of Panaeolus; black spores.


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InvisibleMead

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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: pingerau]
    #6637424 - 03/05/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

congrats and nice finds, enjoy


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OfflineShrum821
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: CureCat]
    #6637574 - 03/05/07 12:57 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

CureCat said:
Wow!! That is a lucky first find!

Well, I'd say you have a mixed collection of Panaeolus cyanescens (aka Copelandia cyanescens), and Panaeolus semiovatus (aka Panaeolus antillarum).

Pan. cyanescens are potent hallucinogenic mushrooms, while Pan. semiovatus is inedible, and might give you the shits and a stomach ache if you ate them.

To separate the two species, look for distinct blue bruising. The mushrooms which bruise blue, are Pan. cyanescens, the blue reaction is probably caused from the oxidization of the active chemical psilocin, analogous to psilocybin.




Umm Panaeolus semiovatus and Panaeolus Antillarum are certinaly not the same, as I found both more times than I count. And neither of those mushrooms are present in his batch. Not really even close. All copes. Enjoy!


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: ID please 05.03.07 [Re: Shrum821]
    #6637592 - 03/05/07 01:02 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

First of all, I explained that they are not the same in subsequent posts.

Second, you are missing the point completely- that pingerau should know how to tell the active species from the inactive species.


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