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Offlinenugsarenice
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How does bleach affect the soil?
    #663052 - 06/04/02 06:31 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I got these shells soaking in bleach water, but I think the bleach may have already decomposed because mosquitos, or worms are now breeding in the water, which is weird ,because I thought bleach was toxic. Does anyone know how bleach biodegrades?


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Offlinefelix
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Re: How does bleach affect the soil? [Re: nugsarenice]
    #663316 - 06/04/02 10:08 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

i poured some bleach out in the grass and the grass lived. it was alot of bleach too.

i've also read about using bleach to kill the algae and other nuisances in the soil....


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: How does bleach affect the soil? [Re: felix]
    #663422 - 06/05/02 01:03 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know, I mean their has to be some kind of worthwhile study reading, if I ever find one, I will let you know.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: How does bleach affect the soil? [Re: nugsarenice]
    #674059 - 06/12/02 01:40 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hmm... Bleach...

If you mean Chlorine Bleach: that's generally Sodium Hypochlorite, NaOCl, and it smells alot like chlorine gas. (But not quite, it's actually Cl2O you're smelling..)
If you combine Chlorine Bleach with organics (like in soil etc.) it will chlorinate the Alpha-hydrogens of sugars/starch/celluloses, ketones & the like. Combine it with Aminoacids & it will oxidate them.

Fun thing to do on a rainy day: dissolve l-Tryptophan in water, add Chlorine Bleach & collect the (unstable) 3-Indoleacetaldehyde formed. Then mix it up with a funky Dialkylformamide, like DMF, & heat at 180-200'C for a couple of hours. In the case of DMF this yields DMT formiate. That'll drive the boredom away!

But seriously now: Chlorine Bleach reacts with acids in soil (since acid rain alot of soils are acidic gives the following reaction, simplified for better understanding:
3 NaOCl + RCOOH = NaOCl + 2 HOCl = NaClO3 + 2 NaCl + RCOOH
Sorry to get all nerdy here: just for the Chemfreaks! Note that there are two end products here: Sodium Chloride (common salt) and the herbicidal oxidizer Sodium Chlorate. This NaClO3 weedkiller slowly reacts with organics, giving off it's oxygen, to form common salt & oxidized organic stuff. Only little of the inorganic Chlorine gets converted into the Organochlorines that're very, very bad for you.

Nontheless: using Chlorine Bleach for seed-treatment is OK, but using around growing plants that're to be consumed in any way is a bad, bad thing that should be avoided at all cost. But, to go back from my little stroll: If you still smell the chlorine it's still active, if you don't then probably not.
Don't get fooled by the critters: Chlorine Bleach is indeed both toxic and caustic, but affects micro-organisms much more strongly than it does macro-organisms than mosquito larvae. Because of it's Cl+ let's call Cl-Bleach the "Bad bleach". The enviromentalists are down on it, and rightfully so.

A much better bleach in common use is Hydrogen Peroxide, "Oxygen Bleach" or H2O2. Albeit more expensive, H2O2 is much, much friendlier. H2O2 readily breaks down in the enviroment into:
H2O2 = H2O + O:
Note that the stuff produced is just plain water + free-radical oxygen. Free radicals are bad news too, but in exess combines to form O2, simple breathing oxygen. The radical Oxygen oxidises about anything that can be oxidized & the end products aren't just friendly: they're required for Life anywhere.
I hope I didn't bore the living shit out of you!




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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: How does bleach affect the soil? [Re: Asante]
    #674061 - 06/12/02 01:46 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

thanks for the info. not boring at all, I am going to soon water some of my plants with 2 month old chlorine, it seems to have lost the smell, so I am going to test how strong this substance is on nature, I heard before, that there is a breakdown period...

also, about the amino acids, what are some examples of common store bought amino acids, and also is this standard procedure for water treatmetn plants to do to treat chemical infested water?


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: How does bleach affect the soil? [Re: nugsarenice]
    #674104 - 06/12/02 03:29 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

All good & well, just dont eat or smoke the plants!

Breakdown period... I believe that for Hypochlorite it's like hours or a few days in soil, but the chlorate may remain in soil for weeks to months. That your bleach has gone off may mean the OCl to ClO3 conversion has already happened & your bleach may be pure-herbicide. Remember that adding salt to soil is mentioned in the Bible as a means to render enemy soil barren to plantlife. Careful.

Hmm.. simple storebought Aminoacids. First there's Tryptophan, but that may be a problem in the USA because of (f)laws of the US gov't. By the way: if you leave 3-Indoleacetaldehyde exposed to air or lyesolution it forms 3-Indoleacetic acid, IAA, a Tryptamine-precursor and potent plant growth hormone.

Another Aminoacid that's commonly available is Phenylalanine. Bleach that & get phenylacetaldehyde, precursor to hellish amphetamineshit & Godlike Phenethylamines like Mescaline.

Yet another aminoacid-source is Ve-Tsin, Monosodium Glutamate, a flavor enhancer used in Chinese food & is sold as a spice. Should one dissolve this in little water & add an acid (like conc. vinegar, lemonjuice or HCl) a powder will form which is the aminoacid l-Glutamic acid. Put this in a pressurecooker, cover with water & hit it with a full 120'C for 6hrs and you'll end up with PYROGLUTAMATE, a nontoxic nutrient Smartdrug that can brighten your day.

Should you say: "Fuck Bright! Just gimme a good wack on the head!" then subject Glutamic Acid to bleach treatment to obtain the aldehyde form of GHB that's more psychoactive than GHB Sodium on a wt/wt basis.

But, not to you but some crazy-assed newbie: Chlorine Bleach is BAD SHIT with poisonous contaminants. All procedures to produce psychoactives should be followed by rigorous purification procedures. And Newbie: YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!! I probably could, but I just like THEORETICAL psychochemistry. No contaminants in MY body! Shrooms & Weed is all you need!

Chemical wastewater purification.. There's hundreds of Teks for that! Filtration (activated carbon; aquarium supply stores) usually does alot of good. Ammonia water works for destroying chlorine bleach, basically by:
3 NaOCl + 2 NH3 = 3 NaCl + 3 H2O + N2
yielding table salt, water & nontoxic nitrogen gas. The reaction isn't clean and produces amine halides, hydrazine and free Cl2 gas too, so I won't recommend it due to its poisonous & carcinogenic byproducts.

Chlorine Bleachwater can be converted to NaClO3 by boiling, too, but this gives one hell of a (poisonous) stink & corrodes the living daylights about nearly anything except glassware. But: we're moving onto dangerous ground here, so I'll shut my pothole!
Standard procedure for waterpurification in Holland is to first oxygenate the shit out of it with airbubbles & then using microbial action (Bionitrification & such) to purify. A drinking glass full of fertile soil to a gallon of contaminated water, bubbling airbubbles trough it with an aquariumpump & letting it stand for a week is a crude and highly expensive way to mimic this process. Use tapwater man!
To remove Cl2 from tapwater, simply let a bucket of it stand overnight & the chlorine will be driven off. God, I Love Chemstuff...!




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