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Offlinesusej
we like cheese.
Registered: 05/20/02
Posts: 59
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
What do shroom actually *do*?
    #662416 - 06/04/02 11:41 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

So what do mushrooms do to you physically? It's a poison, right? What actually happens? What makes you hallicinate?


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Offlinetoo_many_weirdos
it's a jungle inhere
Registered: 12/01/01
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: susej]
    #662448 - 06/04/02 11:59 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

no, shrooms (more specifically psiloc(yb)in) are not a poison.
the chemical, psilocin, and its close cousin psilocybin act as non-specific seritonin receptor agonist. Meaning, they excite, or stimulate, a whole bunch of different seritonin receptors in the brain. I think it is believed that the 2b (or is it 2a) sites are what are responsible for the psychedelic activity. other seritonin receptors regulate things such as blood pressure, vaso-dialation/constriction, digestion, nausea, pupil size, etc.
i hope that was clear enough...


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OfflineFood
---Beast---

Registered: 12/10/01
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: susej]
    #663454 - 06/05/02 02:45 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

No Satan ah I mean susej they are not a poison, they are a biological entity containing chemicals very similar to ones which naturally occur in human brains, if one eats fresh shrooms on a full stomach one can feel sick and might feel as though he/she is being poisened .

But medically speaking in terms of toxicity and overdose shrooms are very safe .

Chemically, Psilocyn is very similar to seratonin , and it is thought that Psilocybin breaks down to become Psilocyn - the two have identical properties in terms of effects on the human mind .

Uuurrm uh .


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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-


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OfflineFood
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: Food]
    #663455 - 06/05/02 02:46 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

By the two I mean Psilocybin and Psilocyn .


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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-


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InvisibleNeiL
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Registered: 01/21/01
Posts: 151
Loc: Scotland, UK
Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: Food]
    #663809 - 06/05/02 09:20 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I wrote this in reply to a previous, similar post-

The mechanism of action (?) of Psilocybin is known (the drug molecule is a modified form of the seretonin molecule, so it acts very strongly at specific types of seretonin receptors (5HT2), more strongly and specifically for those receptors than normal brain seretonin would) however, why this has the intense and profound effects on our perception of reality that it does, is unclear- due to our rather incomplete understanding of the relationship between brain structure and conciousness. I have seen mentioned that this artificial stimulation causes altered rythmic firing of neurons in the brain. In certain types of Epilepsy, characterised by altered rythmic firing in specific brain areas, there are accounts of altered states of conciousness, seeing god, hallucinations etc... Also, i think a lot of the receptors that psilocybin acts on are in the visual areas of the brain, specifically those dealing with edges, lines etc... hence the fractal CEVs etc... Oh i dunno, it's all mad, crazy and very, very interesting. I know a fair bit more and have a lot more ideas than i could write down here though, as me being able to make sense would involve a lot of rambling and waving my hands about furiously. The bottom line is, there is absolutely no way to come up with a simplification of how shrooms work. Last time i tripped i got into a big discussion about all this, had my Biochemistry/ Pharmacology textbooks all spread out all over the floor, lots of frantic gesturing,hand waving, pacing, beard stroking. Great fun


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Offlinewhy
journeyman
Registered: 06/03/02
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: susej]
    #663941 - 06/05/02 10:49 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

>So what do mushrooms do to you physically? It's a poison, right?

why certain mushroom species produce psilocybin isn't known, it may be a poison or it could be made for some other reason.

your body may well choose to reject them as if they were a poison

my own opinion is that psilocybin (and other psychedelic drugs) are poisons in that they disrupt the 'normal' function of the brain: - there is a lessening of the sense of 'ego' or 'self'. It may well be that you can understand what receptors the psilocin binds to, or why people see geometric patterns under the influence but those sorts of questions (tho important) are a distraction. The real question is why does a lessening of the sense of 'self' sometimes cause a religous or mystical experience? and are such experiences real or delusion?



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InvisibleNeiL
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Registered: 01/21/01
Posts: 151
Loc: Scotland, UK
Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: why]
    #663959 - 06/05/02 11:08 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with you, although really that is kind of what i was implying is the gaping hole in our understanding of their effects and experience in general- our understanding of the connection between events on a structural/functional/cellular level and the subjective experience of conciousness (in this case, a religious/ mystical experience).

I don't agree with you that "what receptors the psilocin binds to, or why people see geometric patterns under the influence" neccesarily distracts from some sort of path to higher knowledge of conciousness- everything is interconnected, whether conciousness resides to whatever extent on a quantum/ spiritual plane, at some level there is an interaction between this plane and the material plane for the drugs to achieve their alteration of conciousness (if that makes any sense?!?)- the only way such questions could distract is if research is not carried out in an
open-minded way and these issues are ignored.

Whether or not psilocybin/ psilocin are poisons just depends on your subjective definition of what a poison is- i think the important thing in answer to this question is that they have low toxicity and thus an almost non-existant chance of causing death by themselves. Whether or not they have dangers to sanity and whether this increases their qualification as a poison is a whole other and probably pointless argument.


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Offlinedirk gently
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Registered: 08/05/99
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: why]
    #663963 - 06/05/02 11:10 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

It depends on how you define "poison" really. Psilocin is pretty benign from a purely toxicological perspective. But it still may be considered a poison in some respects because it disrupts normal body function (higher nervous system mainly).

Many, many mushrooms produce toxic compounds which we call poisonous. This is not by accident. They evolved to produce them as a defense mechanism. Psilocin/cybin have no known function for any life cycle parameters in psilocybe mushrooms. So maybe they were originally poisons for some lower animal species. Most simple organisms don't have nervous systems that would even respond in one way or another to serotonin like compounds.

So is it a happy coincidence or some kind of devine intervention?


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Offlinewhy
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: NeiL]
    #665391 - 06/06/02 07:11 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

>Whether or not psilocybin/ psilocin are poisons just depends on your subjective definition of what a poison is

I agree, but as a few people had made the case that psilocybin isn't a poison, I descided to put a contrary view. It's just a question of semantics and context. It is like asking if alcohol is a poison. It is, but you would not normally say that someone who had drunk 12 bottles of beer had been 'poisoned'. Imagine if someone were to collect psilocybe mushrooms mistaking them for an edible species and then they eat them for dinner. They suffer from nausea, anxiety and a disturbing change in perception, they have certainly been 'poisoned'.

>I don't agree with you that "what receptors the psilocin binds to, or why people see geometric patterns under the influence" neccesarily distracts from some sort of path to higher knowledge of conciousness

This isn't what I was saying. Yes, to understand how psychedelic drugs work will help science to understand consciousness, the brain/mind connection.

My point was that even if you fully understand that brain/mind connection and you fully understand the action of this class of drugs on both the brain and mind, that still dosn't tell you what psychedelic drugs are. What they do is to convey an experience of the nature of reality. However well you understand consciousness, this will never tell you whether a religous experience is real or delusion. To ask 'what does psilocybin do?' is really to ask 'what is the nature of reality?' and there is no answer to that question and there never will be... except perhaps to smile!

You were answering the question, I was going off on a tangent...





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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: too_many_weirdos]
    #665443 - 06/06/02 07:53 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

no, shrooms (more specifically psiloc(yb)in) are not a poison.

Webster: poison
a substance that through its chemical action impairs an organism

I would have to say that everyone who is tripping would have to be considered impaired.


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (06/06/02 08:01 AM)


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Offlinesusej
we like cheese.
Registered: 05/20/02
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: Swami]
    #665448 - 06/06/02 07:57 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Have there been any documented cases of someone ingesting mushrooms and suffereing serious, permanent health problems?

My boss was telling me about a friend of his who did 'shrooms in the 60s and is still messed up today and is in a mental hospital. Just wondering if there is any way this could happen? I presume not and he has no idea what he's talking about, but you never know.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: susej]
    #665472 - 06/06/02 08:09 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I don't have the references handy, but there are apparently two known deaths attributable to psilocybin intoxication. One was a small child and another a young woman. I have not seen anything on permanent psychosis although in the book "True Hallucinations" Dennis McKenna brothers was completed zoned out for 2 weeks when using a small dose of ayahuasca in conjunction with the mushroom.

Bottom line: they are relatively safe, but not completely harmless and certainly not a toy.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinedirk gently
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: susej]
    #665587 - 06/06/02 09:01 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

In reply to:

My boss was telling me about a friend of his who did 'shrooms in the 60s and is still messed up today and is in a mental hospital.




This is a classic urban legend. It appears again and again, often in slightly different forms. Like the guy who did too much acid and thought he was an orange for the rest of his life (or something).

not to say that his friend isn't mentally ill, but it probably wasn't the mushrooms alone that did it.


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Offlinetoo_many_weirdos
it's a jungle inhere
Registered: 12/01/01
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: Swami]
    #665717 - 06/06/02 10:41 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

excuse me =p. by poison i meant toxin.


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OfflineTripySmurf
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Registered: 06/05/02
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: susej]
    #665734 - 06/06/02 10:53 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

If you got scizo's in ur family it may be a good idea not to dose... read up on hppd for more info...

I know someone who has hppd although i commonly tell him its like a major freebie he doesn't agree so i suppose its not as pleasent as one would imagine:P


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All the above text is fictional and is meant for roleplaying only!


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OfflineAeolus1369
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: dirk gently]
    #666525 - 06/06/02 08:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe thinking you're an orange for the rest of your life is an exaggeration..but there is such a thing as permanent LSD psychosis which fucks you up. Not sure about shroomies though

--Aeolus


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OfflineRingmasteR
MiRRoR MirroR
Registered: 05/11/02
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #666820 - 06/07/02 03:45 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Yeh it's called HPPD, rare and usually not that bad, more common on cid but *i believe* you can get it from shrooms, and it usually lasts a couple of months but there are people that have had it for years and years


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InvisibleXibalba
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Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 2,114
Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: susej]
    #669204 - 06/08/02 08:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Everything is a 'poison' if you eat enough of it. What you should look at is the active dose/ fatal dose ratio. This is scary for some common drugs like alcohol and Tylenol. For psilocybin, the amount you need to eat to eat to get the full psychoactive effects is such a tiny fraction of what you would have to eat to die that the "impairment" and the "toxicity" can't be part of the same process.
In alcohol, it is- there's a pretty linear continum from buzzed to drunk to wasted to dead. It's a depressant, and we understand those pretty well. I think the fact that depressants are so easily understood is related to why they're such uninteresting drugs compared to psychadelics.

If someone here knew what they "really do" and posted it I don't think you would understand it. Neither would I. (Are you a neuro-chemist?) And even among the specialists no one really does know better than "something with the serotonin receptors..." It's not something we can do much research on- at least not in this back-asswards excuse for a nation- as long as all hallucinogens are in schedule 1.

Also; I really doubt your boss could name the guy and what institution he is in. It's always a friend-of-a-friend. I'm sure this has actually happened to a few schizos but if you're sane enough now it's really not a concern. HPPD is only a visual condition, it is not a form of psychosis.



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OfflineLCid
Close ToInsanity.
Registered: 09/12/01
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: Xibalba]
    #681187 - 06/16/02 01:50 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

bah fuckin misinformation ...hppd if its real lasts the rest of your natural life ive had it for 5 years and disscussed it with people whove had it for decades without even continueing any drugs its being like 1 hit of lsd visuals but no stimulation no euphoria mostly dp/dr

also multiple drugs can cause it mdma tho i argue it has to be somthing more psychdelic in the pill but most agree anything remotley psychdelic can give it to you except marijuana..


Edited by LCid (06/16/02 01:51 AM)


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Offlinestealth
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Re: What do shroom actually *do*? [Re: susej]
    #681819 - 06/16/02 11:59 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

they make your brain bleed. The blood seaping down the side of your skull then enters the hippocampus (sp?) and thats what gives you visuals. You can read more about it on erowid.org.


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