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InvisibleSinbad
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Desire & Satisfaction
    #6623030 - 03/01/07 04:30 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Craving almost always accompanies desire. The craving that accompanies desire is the driving force of the wheel of dissatisfaction in our lives. When we desire something, the craving the accompanies generates anxiety in our minds that makes us disturbed and unstable. When we have the object that we crave for, this results in temporary satisfaction. But this temporary satisfaction is something we confuse with and project onto the object of our desire, thinking that the object was the actual cause of the temporary pleasure that we experience.

Any satisfaction that we experience in relation to sensory phenomena is caused by the actual cessation of our desire for the object, and is not inherent as any intrinsic nature within the object itself. Take the moment of orgasm as an example, our desires move towards that moment, but only after the peak of the orgasm, when the craving that accompanies desire for that experience ceases, do we actually experience temporary satisfaction. But even then, after a short while, due to our strong habitual tendencies, our craving and desires arise again, leading us once again to a state of anxiety and dissatisfaction.

It seems that the only way to actually live in unending satisfaction or happiness is to be liberated from our craving for and ignorance about the nature of ourselves and sensory phenomenon. if we examine closely, we can see that all of our craving activity is done in the pursuit of happiness.The more we realize how craving for happiness is the main factor that takes us further away from it, the more we will be inclined to relax our tensions and craving. This sets up more beneficial and productive habitual tendencies of relaxation and letting go, in place of those that only ever resulted in dissatisfaction.

This means that our experience will eventually cease to be stifled and colored by our craving and habitual tendencies. Instead we experience more the open, fresh and deep satisfaction, knowing all phenomenon to be equal in their basic innocence and empty of our mistaken projections.


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Edited by Sinbad (03/01/07 08:56 AM)


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OfflineCerebralFlower
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Sinbad]
    #6623541 - 03/01/07 10:17 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Have you been staying up all through the night? :smile:

Quote:

we experience more the open, fresh and deep satisfaction, knowing all phenomenon to be equal in their basic innocence and empty of our mistaken projections.




This is great
thanks for sharing with us.


--------------------
God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire

Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play



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Offlineleery11
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: CerebralFlower]
    #6623554 - 03/01/07 10:22 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Why should we be a human then?

If I don't have goals for the future, if I cut everything out. If I just sit and meditate and be leisurely until I allow myself to recogtnize that I am already enlightened, but had been hiding from it.... then what?

Then why be a human at all? Yet, the future, careers, schooling, relationships, they are a cause of suffering should I desire for things to manifest. Then I must put forth energy and faith into the visions I have, and trust, and give a lot of emotions and positivity toward my visions, all the while not quite sure if they will be and come true or not, and this causes suffering in the process.

And if what I want is enlightenment, and when I say things such as "I want this and that" what I am really looking for is enlightenment instead, then I shouldn't do anything at all right?

And yet human beings need:
touch
warmth
love
affection
comradery
communication
food
shelter

right?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Sinbad]
    #6623573 - 03/01/07 10:27 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

It can turn all arround, if the 'desire for happiness' stems from sitting on glowing coals :smile:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: leery11]
    #6623738 - 03/01/07 11:10 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I think you may have missed the point. I did explain this but cut it out of the post because it seemed unnecessary and wordy. Its not the object(which includes goals, or any physical or mental object) that is the problem, but the craving associated with our mistaken attitude towards the object that is a cause of suffering.

I'm currently studying a computer science degree for example, and having less craving and attachment has proven to be a great asset to learning. Cutting the root of worry and anxiety associated with the grasping, unstable mind is the main point. One doesn't just sit around all day, becoming lifeless like a stone. On the contrary, life is far more enjoyable living free from our craving attitudes. We are free to have goals and not be disturbed by them, we are free to experience without the stifled constriction of a grasping mind. In essence, we actually become more 'human'.

Once we understand the place of true satisfaction, we can begin to integrate that wisdom into our lives.

Thats the theory anyhow :wink:


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Edited by Sinbad (03/01/07 11:30 AM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6623758 - 03/01/07 11:18 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
It can turn all arround, if the 'desire for happiness' stems from sitting on glowing coals :smile:




Indeed, if we turn our very same craving attitudes towards spirituality and philosophy, then these things just become another link in the chain of craving and dissatisfaction. Its all about our inner knowledge and attitudes.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Sinbad]
    #6623767 - 03/01/07 11:21 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

When we have the object that we crave for, this results in temporary satisfaction.




Currently, I desire a woman. Having her in my presence, and me being in her presence would not result in temporary satisfaction. It would be the achievement/attainment of one of just a few 'goals' in my life (I know that sounds bad, but it is the best way to explain it).

Her smile is incredibly powerful and she has this air about her...There would be everlasting satisfaction and contentment for the remainder of our lives. And yes, I truly believe this.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Sinbad]
    #6624080 - 03/01/07 01:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Its not the object(which includes goals, or any physical or mental object) that is the problem, but the craving associated with our mistaken attitude towards the object that is a cause of suffering.

Sinbad this is a most excellent post! This seems to be the sticking point for so many folk here. They don't understand the difference (and it makes all the difference) between desire and craving/addiction. To want something is part of the human experience and necessary and good. To have to have it to be happy or whole is unhealthy and sick to our core. This is the human dilemma and you have aptly put your finger on it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: demiu5]
    #6624087 - 03/01/07 01:17 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Her smile is incredibly powerful and she has this air about her...There would be everlasting satisfaction and contentment for the remainder of our lives. And yes, I truly believe this.

You may "truly" believe this but there are millions of examples to prove you wrong. You are in the throws of hormonal infatuation.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Icelander]
    #6624136 - 03/01/07 01:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

no moreso than watching a sunrise or sunset leaves me speechless


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: demiu5]
    #6624144 - 03/01/07 01:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think so.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Icelander]
    #6624164 - 03/01/07 01:38 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

think whatever, it's not relevant

but your opinions are welcome


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: demiu5]
    #6624188 - 03/01/07 01:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

What I think are my opinions.:)

So thanks.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Icelander]
    #6624311 - 03/01/07 02:19 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

But don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean that relatively objects cannot have positive, negative and neutral effects on our interdependent system of body speech and mind. We still have to exercise our faculty for discriminating wisdom to know what we need to take up, and what should be abandoned for maintaining our inner balance and health, etc.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Icelander]
    #6624502 - 03/01/07 03:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Its not the object(which includes goals, or any physical or mental object) that is the problem, but the craving associated with our mistaken attitude towards the object that is a cause of suffering.

Sinbad this is a most excellent post! This seems to be the sticking point for so many folk here. They don't understand the difference (and it makes all the difference) between desire and craving/addiction. To want something is part of the human experience and necessary and good. To have to have it to be happy or whole is unhealthy and sick to our core. This is the human dilemma and you have aptly put your finger on it.




but what if people actually desire things not because they think their happiness is dependent upon these things, rather, that their happiness IS dependent (proportionally) upon these things.

for instance there is the fulfillment of crying that unblocks the sacral plexus, and if facillitated with the right people can be very powerful and a needed healing experience.

crying-release can be approximated and achieved by meditation though, so then this is my question,why not just disappear?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (03/01/07 03:41 PM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: leery11]
    #6624541 - 03/01/07 03:56 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Did you miss the part where i said that the temporary happiness associated with the object of desire is purely the result of the cessation of the desire for an object?

Surely, this satisfaction is a genuine experience, but due to our grasping, it becomes tainted with anxiety. We think "How long will this last, i must hold onto this!", then it escaped from us, like squeezing a bar of wet soap, it slips through our grasp.

Our thinking that it is the object that creates the satisfaction in the first place is erroneous, as it was in fact our letting go of our craving attitude for that object that allowed space for the experience of satisfaction to take place. Our understanding is what needs to be corrected, so that we know where the source of satisfaction is, i.e cessation of craving.

Temporary happiness is dependent upon the cessation of craving, just as much as unending happiness is resultant upon it. The difference is that our craving is based upon a faulty perception of the object of desire, and sets up a reaction association which results in further craving and dissatisfaction. Once we realize deeply that it is the cessation of craving that accompanies desire that is the source for all experiences of satisfaction, unending, or temporary, we can begin to relax our grasping attitudes. When experiencing that state of of cessation, we can see our experiences clearly for what they are, rather than how we think they are. This way we can enjoy our lives more fully and discover lasting satisfaction.


Edited by Sinbad (03/02/07 01:40 PM)


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Offlinecellardoor
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Sinbad]
    #6624585 - 03/01/07 04:20 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I like this theory, but you said, "...if we examine closely, we can see that all of our craving activity is done in the pursuit of happiness," I don't think is true necessarily. what about our biological needs? the biochemical signals in our body that give us a craving for something (like food) are the body's way of getting what it needs. when you feel thirst you are actually already becoming dehydrated (at least that's what i learned in psy1001). so we need certain drives to live on that most basic level. Anxiety and dissonance are natural and part of the human condition, so why get rid of it?

our lives are lived in a series of moments, and in those moments we strive to achieve happiness, but it is only temporary as you say. life is temporary. i agree that we need to discover a "lasting satisfaction," but searching for that is striving, which would bring us some sort of dissatifaction anyway. so yea..:grin:


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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."~William Blake



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: leery11]
    #6625615 - 03/01/07 08:51 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I cry naturally. If I felt I needed to cry to be happy I doubt it would have the desired effect. I'm not really refering to things that come up naturally within ourselves. I'm refering to the outer things, outside of ourselves that we feel we must have or possess to be happy or fulfilled. Like having a lover or a new car or a certain job or status or a baby or any of the 10,000 things outside ourselves.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: cellardoor]
    #6625624 - 03/01/07 08:53 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I would differentiate between natural drives and cravings. Drives are natural and necessary to the human organism. Cravings are addictions to things which are unnecessary for our survival.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Sinbad]
    #6625632 - 03/01/07 08:55 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

But don't get me wrong

OK I'll try. :biggrin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinevano420
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Sinbad]
    #6625693 - 03/01/07 09:18 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i think i know what you're saying here and i agree, i have finally learned that the less i want, the more happy i will be. its interesting but it works. and its not about giving up goals, i think its the contrary, u still have goals, but wanting less ... and being content yet while being proactive and u get what u want by maybe the law of attraction.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: Icelander]
    #6627816 - 03/02/07 01:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
But don't get me wrong

OK I'll try. :biggrin:




Thanks :smirk:


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Desire & Satisfaction [Re: vano420]
    #6631221 - 03/03/07 01:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Its strange that the more relaxed and content you are in yourself, the more effective you will be in achieving goals and naturally attracting what you need.


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